Hitch

There will be quite a few players kicking themselves this winter for not taking previous offers on the table.

Given that Nolan Arenado vetoed the potential deal to the Astros, what some of his friends say is important: They think he would really like the idea of going to the Red Sox, if Boston and the Cardinals work out terms. Arenado's current mindset: "Highly, highly motivated." Buster Olney

Fair enough. He's obviously aging and his bat speed will tail if it hasn't already, but it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a player come alive after a change of scenery, and he's a proper pull heavy hitter so that 310 should suit if he has any life left (I'm choosing to be optimistic). It's certainly not my first choice of moves, but if it's between him and 4/5 years of Bregman at 2nd base, I prefer this move all day long.

I may be wrong, but I find it difficult to believe a guy who hit 104 of his 106 HR's with the Cardinals to left/left centre wouldn't find Fenway Park's 310-foot Green Monster a better fit than Busch Stadium's 336-foot and 375-foot walls in left field? Maybe his doubles jump through the roof, but I can't see how he projects to be worse.

They project that had he played his games at Fenway rather than Busch Stadium he'd have hit 58 less HR's?

I've mentioned it a few times - the fans base would have a lot more respect of ownership/upper management (but still be angry) if they were just honest in their comments and analysis.

I'd be pretty happy with it just for the monumental leap in defence we'd get at 3rd base. I also think his bat would be reinvigorated at Fenway. I'd prefer this all day over getting Bregman and then inexplicably playing him at 2nd base. Arenado to 3rd base. Devers and Casas share 1st/DH to keep them a bit more healthy, and try not to catch Yoshida's eyeline all year. Works for me. Edit to add: totally agree that little should be given up. This is a salary dump by Cardinals.

The Red Sox and Seattle Mariners were tied to each other at one point and it seems like there reportedly were at least two different trade packages that were rejected, according to the Seattle Times' Adam Jude. "Around the MLB Winter Meetings in December, a major league source with direct knowledge of the talks said the Mariners and Red Sox had discussed a trade that would have sent (Luis Castillo) to Boston, with young first baseman Triston Casas and outfielder/designated hitter Masataka Yoshida coming to Seattle," Jude said. "The Mariners, however, were unwilling to take on the $56 million remaining on Yoshida’s contract through 2027, and the talks stalled out from there. "In November, the Mariners had also rejected an offer from the Red Sox for either one of their youngest starting pitchers — Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo — for Casas." Not a shock to see this confirmed(ish). I think that would have ultimately led to a trade for Arenado (or maybe even sign Bregman) and moving Devers to 1st which would have probably made us better. I wonder how Casas will feel knowing we've been actively (rightly in my mind) trying to move him this winter.

Ouch! In general how close are projections from the different sites? Is there analysis out there on who gets it right the most?

I've been trying to think why I've been so down on the Sox recently, seeing as in general I'm pretty excited about the youth coming up, and while we have issues (RH batters, power, a killer in the pen) we blew 18 saves after the All star game last year. Eighteen. Even half that and we'd have been in the play offs. So there's reasons to be hopeful. But then it became clear to me reading this thread - it's that I don't believe they'll let the youth come up. I don't believe we will see them until June 1st, at which point, we'll already be behind the curve and playing catch up with an arm tied behind our back. So if we don't get any power or RH bats in, we're stuck with what we have line up wise for now, which is not good enough by a long shot and lacking in 31 homers. I very much hope I'm wrong and they're given the chance, but looking at how this FO operates - I can't see it.

The disappointing thing, the really disappointing thing, is that even after everything, I believed him.

Yeah, I'm certainly not sitting here expecting anything to happen. And in a way, I get it, they've painted themselves into a corner. I don't want Bregman for the cost and years it'll take, and 100% not for 2nd. There's not many other great fits out there. Even in a trade for Arenado, there's issues that come with it, issues we've clearly not been able to solve by manufacturing a worthwhile trade for Casas. There's few great fits right now. The fits have been and gone and they watched them sail by because market value is terrifying to them.

It's all good. I wasn't trying to 'gotcha' you, I just couldn't make sense out of what were parallel opinions to me. Miscommunication - it happens. No biggie. Pitching was the biggest need for me this off season and I'm very happy with the moves made so far. But our lineup looks average at best when it comes to power, and that's probably overshooting it. It's shabby when it comes to defense bar the outfield, and very lop sided in handedness with no sign of that changing with the prospects. They're clearly not going to go past the first tax line if at all possible, and I get Rome wasn't built in a day, but seesh, there's a lot of holes/issues on this team, still.

"It makes sense they didn't offer him one, they'd rather of spent that money on pitching and effectively did with a Buehler signing." "The front office obviously has a budget, I'm not spending $21 million a year on O'Neill if that meant not signing the pitchers we did this offseason." "but if my options are Buehler and bank on Campbell/Anthony vs. O’Neill and bank on Richard Fitts I’ll take the former." These are your quotes. You clearly believe we are near our budget as you state resolutely we would not have signed Buehler if we had O'Neil. I have absolutely no idea why you're bringing up the other points. I don't know if you're arguing against other people and using the reply to me to get your thoughts down, or you're arguing against a voice in your head. Either way, at this point I feel like I'm having a discussion with someone shouting at me on the freeway. While driving the other way. Neither of us would actually want O'Neil to be signed for $20m at the outset. But I sure wouldn't mind him instead of the absolute nothing we have here now. Especially on a one year deal. Hopefully the FO still has surprises to hand out and deliver us the RH power bat we badly need.

I think Rafaela will be an everydayer. Whether he is good enough to improve his batting we'll have to see, but I think he's out there every day.

I don't know what you've been reading, but it certainly is not me acting like it's a forgone conclusion we get Bregman. I don't think we get him, even a little bit. I do think we have made an offer, which rubbishes your continued point that if we did keep O'Neil we wouldn't have got Buehler. We're definitely on a budget, no doubt. But it's also pretty clear it's not the exact price point we're at now.

It was me that mentioned it was hard to argue with the logic (of Sean McAdams). As I mentioned a few posts up, I didn't want O'Neil, still don't really. But I would much prefer we had him over the absolute nothing we have in RH'ed batting at the moment.

Again with the either/or. Why are you so convinced we are it now? When more or less every report has us in on Bregman but only at 4 years? Stop inventing parameters in your head that don't exist to make your point seem more secure.

You keep mentioning the finite budget as if we are it now, as this is the level they want to set it at and no more. Even with O'Neil (who I didn't even want back, but would sure as s*** take over nobody), would have us way below the cap. So what if's $21m? It would have been a one year gamble, over not spending $21m and having nothing.

Well we can only guess at that (and everything) and go by what the journalists closet to the team say. And from all that it seems we did try to move him. Maybe Pittsburgh and KC would like him but weren't offering what we wanted or didn't match up with us? There's no point just listing teams and saying well he would have gone there if he was available. It's obviously a lot more complex than that. There's also the possibility, that like Casas, he's worth more in our eyes than other teams.

Me and the butcher's daughter, obviously. We have Abreu, Duran, Ref, Rafaela, Yoshi and Anthony coming. We are not getting rid of Yoshida it seems, and we have other holes. He's cheap, and a GG defender, but also practically a platoon player, which can make up for other holes we have, such as 2nd base and the pen. We obviously shouldn't give him away, but he's hardly indispensable to the club. It may not concern you, but it's concerning the management, judging by the amount of times they have brought it up.

Weird reply. We've been trying to move him all winter regardless of us having O'Neil. And when we move him, which we should now, it'll be for other pieces we'll need. With Anthony coming, we're set long term in the outfield.

Same. I really liked that trade.

Not a universally loved idea then? 😅 I'll respond to all the points in here rather than individually or I'll be quoting for days. Yes he may have rejected it and then that would have cratered his market and he ends up in Japan, Highly unlikely, but who cares either way? Nothing lost. He led the Sox in HR's despite missing a 3rd of the season. So yes, he's inconsistent, and injury prone, but he hits for power and is RH'ed. Two things we still badly need. I would argue that a one year deal is very much the time to take an expensive gamble. The hurt is shallow and short-lasting if it goes wrong. And it's the kind of thing we like to do. See - Walker Buehler. Also, in the words of Andrew Friedman - sometimes you have to overpay, or you'll finish 3rd. A one year is the opportune time for that. This move wouldn't have been instead of the pitching we've seen added. but alongside it, clearly. Even with him signed for $21m, we're under the cap. Yes, there'd be a log jam, and this is where Abreu most certainly gets moved. Fine by me. And I think the Sox (as wrong as it would be) would LOVE to keep Anthony down until June 1st. Regardless, we'll get injuries, like we do every season. I guess what it comes down to is, would you be okay seeing O'Neil on the team now for a year, because the way our line up looks, I'd have no issues with it (if we make other trades to balance out).

On the O'Neil subject, Sean McAdam stated on the podcast recently that we made a major error in not extending O'Neil the QO. If he says no, we get another compensatory pick and if he takes it, yes we've overpaid but only for 1 year and our RH power bat is taken care of. Hard to argue with the logic.