marklmw

The Yankees are public enemy # 1. You have to identify the enemy to defeat the enemy. The Sox are in a position where we have a lot of talent moving up through the farm. These younger players cost very little. WMB, Bogaerts, JBJ, Barnes, Owens, Cecchini etc. We can easily afford Cano even more than the Yankees can as the Yankees have a lot of expensive contracts already ... ARod, Texeria, McCann, Sabathia etc. This move would be brilliant. I would do it if I were Ben. If the Yankees do not want to give Cano 200M let Boston do it. Cano is not a huge risk. Clubs buy disability insurance on contracts like this. There is one for 100M on AROd right now. This deal would not just hurt the Yankees it would make the Sox much better. You cannot deny this.

Cano's offensive numbers are great no matter where he is playing ... 1B or 2B or RF ... Moving him to 1B keeps him fresh and should allow him to improve upon his existing offensive numbers. UN ... are you saying that Cano's oWAR would be significantly less if he was playing 1B? He will be an animal playing 1B in Fenway. You are also missing the big picture here ... this will KO the Yankees for the next 3-5 years.

Would that not be the best signing in the past 20 years or what? It would absolutely kill each and every Yankee fan.

Hey guys and gals ... why all the personal attacks on here ... it makes no sense at all. Is everyone supposed to fit in some type of mold. Let people be themselves and have some tolerance for each others point of view.

Of the 100M it cost to sign Dice K .. he probably only earned 30M of it. Boston managed to survive and thrive none the less. You have good and bad deals all the time. If there is one player you can bet on for the next 8 years it would be Cano ... especially if he agrees to play 1B. Just pencil him in for 160 games each year and let him do his thing at the plate. This would be a historic signing. How can you not want to stick it big time to the Yankees.

Exactly, Let the Yankees continue to insult Cano with a 168M/7 year deal until he gets pissed off and signs with the Sox just to prove his point. It could work. Sox come in and say ... come play in Boston ... our team is set-up to win for the next 8 years. We love your skills and want you on our team. You have 3 hours to decide otherwise we are moving in another direction. You are right that Cano would be foolish not to stay a Yankee. NY is Jay-Z's romping grounds and allowing Cano to leave for Boston would not endear him with anyone. Cano should do his best to be like Jeter and Rivera and never wear another jersey except the NYY. That being said man is at his weakest when he lets pride get in his way and so you have to play on Cano's emotion and point out to him that Hal is being insulting to him etc. Nothing in this world is absolute.

We do have a need at 1B a position typically reserved for a top tier hitter. Cano meets this need better than any player out there. By signing Cano we are turning the tables on the Yankees. So what if the Yankees sign Ellsbury if Cano is not in the heart of the lineup to knock him in. Don't you see the brilliance in this type of move. The Yankees stole the Babe from the Sox ... now the Sox steal Cano from the Yankees ... Cano is not Ruth but who is ... Cano is however a future HOFer. Have you looked at Cano's numbers in Fenway ... they are pretty dam good. Cano has proven himself that he can play on the big stage, he is durable, he is the perfect player for Boston. Also, in my gut becoming the 1B while playing with Pedoria and Papi will be a good influence on him. Napoli produced a WAR of 4 last year ... he had his share of errors at 1B also. People seem to forget that the Napoli thread on here was about Napoli playing himself out of the lineup. Cano is a huge upgrade over Napoli and he would become the top 1B in the league. His chances of remaining a highly effective player will increase with a move from 2B to 1B. If he averages a WAR of 5 for the 8 year period he is worth the signing. Always fear the Yankees ... when you have a chance to set the Yankees back for a number of years you take it.

Hey guys & gals, I want to float an idea. Reportedly the Yankees have offered Cano a 7 year 168M contract. I say that we offer him a 8 year 200M contract. The more I look at Cano's body of work the more I appreciate his accomplishments. He can offer a lot of pop in our lineup as Papi realistically only has 1 or 2 productive seasons left. Cano would have to agree to playing 1B. I do not see any reason why Cano could not play a GG caliber 1B. This move would strengthen the Sox and weaken the Yankees. Imagine a Sox infield over the next 5-8 years of these players: Cano, Pedroia, Bogaerts, WMB/Cecchini, Hanigan/Vasquez/Swihart Sox will be saving the following payroll in 2014: Nap's - 13M Drew - 10M - Bogaerts 500K = 9.5M Ellsbury - 9M - JBJ 500K = 8.5 Total 2014 Savings = 31M I think pitching is a wash with Hanrahan and Bailey and hopefully Dempster savings offset by Peavy & some bullpen help. To sign Napoli may cost as much as 15 - 17M now and most likely for 3 years. The 2014 savings of 31M can grow to 35M depending on the cost of Napoli. I believe the combined WAR of Cano & Bradley will equal or exceed the combined WAR of Ellsbury & Napoli over a 3-5 year period. Combined payroll of Napoli & Ellsbury can be 32-35M while combined payroll of JBJ & Cano would be 25.5M I believe that the luxury tax increases by 11M in 2014 and probably around the same % amount each year after. So if the goal is to stay under the cap it can be done with a Cano signing. Cano is also very durable. He has averaged 160 games for the last 6 - 7 years. 2014 Lineup: Victorino Cano Pedroia Papi Bogaerts Nava WMB Hanigan JBJ The Sox can also transition Mookie Betts to the outfield ... probably LF as he looks like he can develop into a premier lead off hitter. The best part of this deal is that the Sox would be sticking it to the Yankees. If anything the Sox will be increasing the cost of Cano to another club including the Yankees. For anyone in favor of a Napoli 45/3 deal I think Cano will be worthy upgrade for an extra 10M. Comments welcome.

ok now

I think that Boston should step in and sign Cano ... 200M/8 25M per. We can play him at 1B ... or move Cano or Pedroia to 3B. Cano might not mind playing 1B. Imagine an infield of Cano, Pedoria, Bogaerts, WMB, Hanigan/Vasquez ... all together for the next 8 years.

Not needing a player has never stopped the Yankees from getting him in the past. They always try to get the top free agents on the market. After signing Cano and Ellsbury they will have signed the top 3 FA's in the 2013 class. Anyway, signing Ellsbury makes sense for the Yankees. Who knows what Jeter's status will be? A line-up of Ellsbury Gardner Cano will be very potent. Also Ellsbury and Gardner can switch back and forth between center and left which will save their legs throughout a 162 game season. In my mind Ellsbury will be in pinstripes next season. I will not fault the Sox for letting him go as JBJ will put up similar offensive numbers with the exception of SB's ... if SB's are important then the reality is there is no way of replacing Jacoby.

24M per year sounds about right ... about 10M more than Pedey ... I would take Pedey on my team over Cano all day long.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my friends on this forum. As Sox fans we have a lot to be grateful for .... let's see BC ... Sox Ownership ... Koji ... Pedey ... Papi ... Lester ... Our 2013 World Series Championship. I am grateful to share my opinions with you all and to learn a lot from your opinions as well. Have a great holiday.

Teams will run like crazy on Lavarnway. Hanigan should not cost all that much. IMO it will be a better play. I would have no issues letting Lavarnway give 1B a shot if there is an opening.

No problemo Fred. We have no control over what the FO does ... no control what-so-ever. The fact of the matter is that our FO deserves the benefit of doubt on the players they sign. We are in a great position one way or another, with or without Napoli. We have 3-5 players on the farm ... Owens, Barnes, Cecchini, etc. plus JBJ, WMB, & Bogaerts who should begin 2014 season in the starting lineup. If our FO shows good judgement we can be well positioned in 2015 and beyond. Should we be able to land a capable catcher like Hanigan we may have 4 new faces in the starting line-up out of the 8. Nothing lasts forever. Think about this ... if we do not sign Napoli we could end up with only 3 players who were up for the entire 2013 season on the diamond in 2014. This is a total makeover. The chemistry was great last year and it was my favorite Sox season ever but this is the nature of the game now. If we did not have JBJ and Bogaerts I would bet my last dollar that we would be extending Drew and Ellsbury. I think that Nap's will be back on a 3 year deal.

Well I guess we will have to bring Napoli, Ellsbury and Drew back for a repeat. We can replace Salty with Hanigan.

Fred, I do not have a love affair with Santana ... I like him as a 1B not a catcher. If Boston does not sign Napoli that is. There are also certain prospects that I would not include in any deal for him. For you to say that the kid cannot hit is plain wrong. Lighten up a little.

Well you have a point for sure. IMO because of his injury misfortunes Jacoby still has 2-3 prime years left. If JBJ can be our 5th Outfielder next season he can spell Ell's in center and he may actually get more games in. WAR does favor players with more games played. The fact that we play in such a tough division every extra win that a player can contribute makes a huge difference.

Can Ellsbury average a WAR of 4 over the next 5 seasons? I think that he can. You can argue that it makes him a 100M man. With a little luck, some rest throughout the season and no serious health issues it would not be stretch for him to average a WAR of 5+ over the next 5 seasons. 6, 6, 5, 5, 4. Maybe he would take a deal for 105 / 6.

If Fowler is our best answer to the loss of Ellsbury then we had better sign Ellsbury even if we overpay.

Words have meaning ... "Should" they trade Lackey. There were legit reports that the FO would take inquiries on Lackey.

That was 5 years ago MVP ... you have to get with the times ... this is 2013.

Don't worry UN ... even professional football people have a hard time determining who is better ... Brady or Manning. Most will not give an answer the ones that do seem to be split. They realistically can be tied at #1.

It's the combination of many things. Career win % and play-off win % would be the first two criteria and SB win % would be my third.

Manning's teams were plenty good. Some players just perform better in the big games. Manning is a great player ... maybe the 2nd or 3rd best all time.