cp176

Isn't it odd how good he looked to me over the course of his time in Boston. What I saw I guess just doesn't fit with the statistical line. Can you believe that? Wow - Just for the record - I like what JBJ does in the field but any comparison with Freddie during his tenure in Boston makes me chuckle but hey I'm one of those silly guys who believes in having complete ballplayers when you can find them.

Having watched the games, none of the players that you mentioned are incapable of doing the jobs that they have been asked to do. I clearly do not see what others are seeing.

Chavis may not have played second before and he may not be the ideal second baseman but make no mistake about it at this time he is a second baseman. He seems to be making the plays so far that he is expected to make. We got to ride this run he is on for sure. He may be out there for a long time.

No question about that. If the rest of the team hits, he will stay in centerfield for us. His weakness at the plate can be absorbed easily - much like using Leon behind the plate. What concerns me a little is that according to what I am reading, the "metrics" don't seem to be to supportive of him being an elite fielder right now. I am fine with what he does in the field personally. You and I are eye test importance kind of guys thus I find it hypocritical that he is still being staunchly defended by the people who have been telling us about how many things we just don't get right. Did you notice where JD was batting yesterday in the order. Third - imagine that. Is it time for us to be schooled again about how this is a horrible place for him to be batting or do we get to read about the order in which these guys hit doesn't really make much difference? I'm with Cora on this one. I like a good one in the 3 spot - arguably our best hitter in this case!

This could be the night to get Jackie going!!!

lol - You think that I wasn't impressed with the win total? Regardless, I still expected them to win. I'm very happy for Cora but for me it certainly doesn't make him a better manager than Dick Williams was in '67. I do like the concept of using wins and championships to determine who your best players and managers are though of course - It clearly confirms what I have always known that Bill Russell continues to be the greatest bb player of all time and Red of course the greatest coach.

It is a personal opinion based on what your criteria is that you use. Times have changed. I want Cora to be successful and i do think that Francona was as well. All good managers in their time here - hopefully Cora sticks around. No offense to either Francona or Cora but with the talent they have and had, I think that most of us would be disappointed if they did not win. The test of any coach is is your team better at the end of a season then they are at the beginning? Did they improve? The '67 Sox surpassed all of our expectations.

I'm not really disagreeing with you here. At least I don't think that I am. I think that it is human nature to give too much credit to a coach when a team wins and too much blame when they don't. In 1967, I truly think that Dick Williams was the perfect fit for this team. he did an excellent job. That doesn't mean that I think that he was a world beater, just the right guy at the right time. Did what needed to be done to help change a sad culture of losing that had been established and accepted as the norm. For that reason alone, he obviously is going to be near the top of my list. And just for the record, I think that giving a manager 20% of a teams credit for wins and losses is grossly too high. Equal shares for all. Good managers will take the blame for the losses but really want the credit for the wins to go to their players. It is ok with me too if people disagree with me about Williams. I was 16 and never thought that I would see anything close to what we saw in 1967 and and the springboard of success that it has led to. 1. If Conigliaro had not been injured I still think that we would have won that series in '67. 2. If Rice had not been injured in '75, i think that we would have won that one as well.

The maturation and the gelling happened in 1967 with Williams leading the way. To not give an ample share of the credit to the manager for that is no being realistic in my opinion. Don't forget Mike Andrews and Joe Foy out there either. I also think that people tend to forget that this lineup was actually held together on occasion by quite a number of past their prime professionals brought in because of the youth and the injuries that occurred. We obviously have an ample share of Yankee haters on here but given the state of our catching in 1967, I could not have been happier when a way past his prime Elston Howard was acquired. Our young stars were really great but there is no way that team had a right to think that they would be playing in the World Series that fall. They all get to share the credit equally of course except for Yaz (who should get most of it). I don't think that is ever going to be possible to come to consensus as to who was the best this and that. I'm guilty I guess of not thinking that winning a title gives a manager a free pass when it comes to how good they are or were. 1967 and 2018 in that order I think are my two most memorable seasons. Part of the reason would be because they had the right guys running the show.

I'm going to hate seeing Chavis moved to the outfield but they are going to have to come up with some original way of keeping him with us when Pedroia returns for at least as long as he continues to be a plus in the lineup. i would not move Betts anywhere. He is a comfortable gold glover in a tough to play right field for us. If Chavis continues to hit, he won't be going anywhere. Tough tough decisions to be made. The easy way out is to say that if the team is winning, JBJ stays put. i don't think that it is going to be that easy. He is going to have to start doing something at the plate in order to stay in that everyday lineup. Maybe tonight - JBJ.

You likely are right. JBJ might come down with a phantom injury as well. It is a shame what is going on with him for sure. He is a good one. talented and homegrown. Reality sucks sometimes.

By the way - I think the days of covering for JBJ and his elite glove are likely coming to an end. What he gives us does not in any way make him indispensable no matter how much people happen to like him. i hope that he starts to hit because if he doesn't he won't continue to get a free pass.

I will never forget the night that happened. Listening to the old transistor - couldn't believe it. For the record, Williams was a great manager. Just what we needed at the time. Someone to manage a very young team with very very few established stars. Impossible to compare of course but the talent level of the 75, 78, and 86 red sox teams laid over what was out there in 67. I have enjoyed our titles as much as the nest guy, but the fact that we won doesn't in itself make any manager better than another one. Sometimes you have the talent and are expected to win. Just stay to hell out of the way. Williams built a team out of not a whole lot. obviously if I had to I would give my vote to him.

We all know what this man is capable of in the field. He proved it once again last night. We likely all want him to be out there forever but the fact remains - he has to hit just a little - as in a little more than he is right now. What he is doing now is not enough. Maybe that catch, a real game saver, will get something good going for him even at the plate. i bet we all hope so.

Do you really see what I am saying here Moon though? Having anyone bunt to move runners around in that situation, just doesn't get done. Not today and not yesterday. I am going with the thought that they really are losing confidence in Jackie. Don't get me wrong - hell of a bunt but really. I believe that there is a time to attempt to move runners over anyway you can including by bunting but this really seemed like an odd time to do it. IMO - if JBJ doesn't pick up the pace soon, he will sit more and sadly ultimately he will be gone.

He laid down a great bunt. i loved it but when he did it all i could think of was all of the crap we were going to hear from the host of people who are opposed to bunting to move runners along. I thought that it had been proven (stat masters) that it was one of the worst things that you could do. Considering when he bunted and the game situation i was really surprised. Does it say anything about the confidence level that Cora has in him? For the record, I liked the move. If he can move runners along by using the lost art, he has value at the plate.

The obvious choice would be our old friend P. Sandoval. He proved us all wrong yesterday! A clean inning pitched - a three run dinger - and a stolen base for the big one. The possibility of getting him back might be too hard for us to resist. He has got some unfinished business here.

My guess is that this is pretty accurate.

I am not explaining why they are so different Bell because I see two different scenarios. I'm not going to be the one who says - Hey JBJ is really off to a bad start but so is Steve Pearce, so it is ok. My interest right now is JBJ and the thought that his defense more than makes up for his lack of offense in the eyes of some people. Steve Pearce is an entirely different topic for me. I hope that JBJ gets hot soon and can put this matter to rest.

Oh I too find you very reasonable, especially when I agree with you and vice versa. Now that I mention it though, normally it is only the people that never agree with me that I find unreasonable. Pretty unusual point of view don't you think?

Hey I hope he cranks it up as well. My comments are obviously the result of frustration with someone I have supported for years and who I now do think will be expendable soon if he does not hit just a little. My guess is that if the team plays well, they will live with JBJ for the time being. Management will continue to show support for him and we will keep hearing about how he is ready to break out of his slump any day now because of the exit velocity of the ball leaving his bat. Moving ahead as in next year, I think that his time as a member of our team really is in jeopardy if he can't get it going.

I'm not sure that a blanket statement like this is supportable. Trust me, I'm in the camp of hope with respect to JBJ but I think that there is a big difference between Pearce and JBJ. Separate situations as far as I'm concerned.

Honest to God I like the guy but it is time for him to get going or he will likely be gone. What am I missing right now? Do people really think that his defense is so good that it can justify his absolute incompetence at the plate? I do not but although I have always felt he was good out there I have never thought he was great. My favorite of course is Fred Lynn. Now, I can actually see carrying a catcher like Leon because he is competent playing the most important defensive position in the game. if JBJ gets hot and the team wins, ok - you keep carrying him I guess but if the decision is made to go in another direction, I would be fine with it.

I'm throwing the "Rooster" in there for you. lol - maybe even the "Boomer".

No Fisk in that top three of homegrowners?