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Wilson is post-op. I like him, but he's problematic.

Or they could take their time and insert the protective language into Napoli's contract and sign him under their terms, since he is their desired target given the fact that LaRoche is not a good fit. The moral of this story is that there's seemingly no way to satisfy you Fred. Maybe you would prefer they forfeit a draft pick for a guy that may quickly decline and who you will bitch about too?

First off, i don't know how you infer from my post that i'm saying a good BP is the way to a WS. The example simply tried to illustrate that you can hide part of the weakness from a starting staff with a good bullpen. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, and neither should you. As for the Bailey scenario, he holds very little value, and this is something we both know. Why would they trade a guy when his value is at its lowest and keeping him may prove more fruitful in the long run? For all your talk about the FO lacking common sense you're certainly not looking at this from a "common sense" perspective.

That's a pipe dream. Bailey doesn't have enough value to be packaged in a deal for a reliable starter. That argument's played out. He has more value to the Red Sox than he does to any other team. Also, the "upside" of the O's arms do not erase their results: Their rotation was mediocre but their BP kept them in it. And "uncle Bud's" postseason format doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. They made the PO's in the current format, and that's indisputable. My point is simple: By building a better bullpen, they're giving themselves a better chance to win ballgames. That's really not something you can argue against. And it's not like they can use BP depth to acquire a good starter, because that's a pipe dream. While they do need to address the rotation, addressing the 'pen and the offense were also important parts of the Red Sox as a whole.

I wonder what gives with Marcum. For all the success he's had in the past, he doesn't seem to be generating much interest. I know he's a soft-tosser and he doesn't generate a lot of groundballs but he's always been effective and his secondary stuff is very good.

The problem is that they succumbed to fan pressure for big splashes. The only reason i've always defended the team's Front Office is because i feel that we, as fans, are partly to blame for the team's conversion into what it currently is. People clamored for the big-ticket FA's and drove Epstein out of what made him a successful team architect. Lucchino caved in to the pressure to make more money and the results have been disastrous. No more Billy Muellers or Kevin Millar etc. People wanted a big-ticket signing to keep team "buzz" and look at where it's taken the team. Every time they failed to sign a big-ticket FA they were interested in the resorted to getting the next best option and that's what netted us Lackey. Afterwards, the need to create media "buzz" around the team netted us Crawford. Both disasters. For these reasons i am content with the job Cherington has done thus far although there is room for improvement. You can't pine for them to spend their money wisely on one hand then complain when they start doing so on the other. Not saying you do this, but it's the general conondrum i've seen amongst Red Sox fans in general.

Yet with a guy like Marcum and finalizing the Napoli signing, the Sox could very much position themselves as much more than "2nd WC contenders". Also, the payroll argument is inconsequential. How much money you spend is not an indicator of how well a team will/should do. That is a lesson the Red Sox are learning very painfully. It's not how much money you spend, it's how you spend the amount of money you have.

I don't get your argument at all jung. Because the rotation is full of question marks the need for a shutdown bullpen is magnified, not the other way around. The O's of last year proved how far mediocre starting pitching with a decent offense but a shutdown bullpen can take you. Your argument is a house of cards. The fact that they need to address the SP is in no way, shape or form associated with the need to form and maintain a strong bullpen. They are separate parts of the same entity. Without a strong BP, strong SP loses a lot of its value. The best way for the Sox to give themselves a fighting chance is to fortify the club as much as possible, and the only area where they can strengthen the ballclub is not SP. I very much see Dojji's point of stockpiling high-leverage relievers, because one thing that gets overlooked is that even though the Red Sox had a decent BP last year, it was absolutely terrible in high-leverage situations. The Red Sox staff as a whole allowed an .814 OPS in high leverage situations. That is unreal.

You're looking too much into it. Building a good bullpen is of extreme importance no matter the apparent strength or weakness of the rotation.

I'm not crazy, here's an excerpt from one of the press releases after Offerman's signing: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-11-14/sports/9811140024_1_morris-engelberg-contract-with-jose-offerman-friend-and-lawyer

I disagree. I remember Offerman being signed as a guy who could essentially rotate around multiple positions with Stanley and Frye being the 1B and 2B regulars. In fact, Offerman barely had any 1B experience at that point. I do know they weren't going to play Stanley full time at 1B and Offerman's "ability" to play 1st factored into his signing, which was absolutely atrocious by the way.

His velocity last year was right at career averages, and you have to account for the mess his mechanics admittedly were.

Philadelphia has made it clear they won't trade Lee. Can't get him if they won't trade him. You criticize the Dempster sining then ask for Lohse, who is less consistent but with worse peripherals. Marcum is still possible, but I think they want to give Felix/Morales a chance, which makes sense on many levels, but I don't agree with.

Offerman was signed as a second baseman who filled in at first and other positions occasionally. He saw less than 100 games at first ( with around a quarter of them entering as a replacement) during his entire tenure with the team. The heir apparent to mo was Tony Clark, and Offerman was part of the roster already when he arrived after the Vaughn trade.

Yet more than half of the 25 man roster is comprised of home grown talent. The whole idea that they don't give young players a chance is asinine. The true problem is that they are passive in doing so, even more so with pitchers after the Hansen fiasco.

No he didn't. Wilson came up as a starter, got rocked, hurt his elbow and then got converted. He even got six starts at the major league level in 05 amidst all this

The Red Sox are very high on prince Felix. Unless there's an injury don't count on it.

In which case Morales would be relegated to bullpen duty anyway. As much as scm likes Morales in the rotation, it ain't happening.

Morales, De La Ross and Acevedo will almost certainly be stretched out to start if necessary to begin the season

What he says makes no sense. Not only has Napoli raked in Fenway over his career, but history had shown with guys like Jason Bay and Ross that Boston heavily favors right handed hitters who pull with power. The monster is there to help, this is fact.

So now we're arguing the meaning of something as subjective as "value".

Victorino also benefits from his speed and a much better postseason resume.

The problem is that i have not seen anywhere other than some talksox posters who are enamored with Bauer for some strange reason, the kid being referred to as an upper echelon talent. The scouts refer to him as a very good talent with control and maturity problems, not elite. I will trust the scouts on this one.

Funny you mention that. I read somewhere that defense and playoff numbers are the reason Swisher got so much less money even though he and Werth are so similar. Supply and demand was also mentioned, given how deep the market for of was this year.

That's not quite how it works. The top 5 prospects at any position at given time aren't necessarily elite. Elite refers to a generational talent, which Bauer certainly is not. A prospect's ability and makeup makes them elite, not something as subjective as ranking.