Elktonnick

Someone made absolute statements about big market managers not using the press to call out players and they were factually wrong. So using your "logic" if Valentine hated Crawford it would be okay to call him out. Those critical of Valentine make the general argument that using the press to call out players is somehow demoralizing to those not named. I think the larger issue is from the record it is hard if not impossible to find to find a successful manager who doesn't use the press from time to time to call out a player. I think I have proven my point whereeas you all have only unproven conjecture.

Again I knew you would miss the point . You always do! First you said successful big market mgrs never used the press to call out players etc . You were factually wrong yet again. I pointed out more than a half dozen who did. Second you missed Charlie Manuel's quote about today's ballplayer etc And you missed the point about the article. BTW I like Manuel. And speaking of strawmen, you are also factually wrong yet again about Tony Larussa not criticizing players in the press. Her are two examplesI found after two minutes GOOGLE search. Jim Edmonds spent his first few weeks as a Cub asking the media to stop referring to him as a former Cardinal, hoping Cubs fans would accept him for who he is, not for the rival player he was. But when Tony La Russa shot back in an interview with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, saying Cardinals fans should "honor his request [and] ignore the fact that he was ever here," Edmonds ripped his former manager for comments he called "the most asinine I've ever heard." So what was their relationship really like? "It has been great," Edmonds said. "It always has been great. He gets a little excited when this series goes on, and I know the media takes its toll on him, so I'm sure he got misinformed over something he heard about me not wanting to be part of this organization. "In the history of baseball, I don't know if I ever heard that before, so I don't know how anybody would put that with my name. It's disappointing that someone would throw those accusations out there." Chicago Tribune LaRussa Can’t Keep Quiet In recent days St. Louis manager Tony LaRussa really hurt his team by criticizing Rasmus. There was no doubt that Rasmus was going to be traded and because of LaRussa’s remarks the Cardinals got less than full value for their starting center fielder. Rasmus had been in a slump but has hit two home runs in his last three games. He is just 24 years old and could be a fixture in the Toronto outfield for the next decade or more. Last season Rasmus was considered one of the top centerfielders in the league and because LaRussa couldn’t keep quiet the Cardinals got very little for him. I am sure that after a couple of minutes on GOOGLE or Lexus/Nexus I could find example for the others as well but you get the point. Then again maybe not!

Billy Martin, Leo Doroucher, Sparky Anderson Ozzie Guillen, Lou Pinella, Casey Stengal and yes even Joe Torre just to name a few have caled out players in the media during their days. Regarding Charlie Manuel do you live in the Philly market and get Philly local TV. Well I do. "Charlie get's way too much credit for his manager skills. He might be a great hitting coach, but when it comes to managing he just doesn't have it. During the press confrence the other day he said, "It's a waste of time to talk to today's ballplayers, since they just turn you off" and spent most of his time stuttering to respond. Charlie has lost more games with his blundering decision than any one on the team. Do not expect to see the Phillies in the World Series, not with a crew of 250 hitters and no power. Luck if they win first round of playoffs. Great pitching, Lee, Halladay and Hamels, but nothing else. Smart move would be to promote Sandberg." Do you think that Charlie Manuel is the Phillies' weakest link? Have his blundering decisions cost the Phils wins? Would Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs manager Ryne Sandberg be a good replacement? Sept 11, 2011 Leigh Valley Post

Smart big-market managers avoid giving the media fodder as much as they can. Where is that written in the manager's handbook? Smart big market managers whether in baseball, football government or business use whatever tool works to get the results required. He can pull off the necessary no-nonsense rulings and call-outs without going to the media. Didn't work for Francona with this bunch. No reason it would work with BV. This brings us to the definition of insanity:" doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result " Rita Mae Brown, Starting from Scratch: A Different Kind of Writer's Manual. New York: Bantam Books, 1988.

First, It would have been an issue just you wouldn't have known about it. Second and more importantly, That;'s not why they hired him. That's the point you are forgetting. They knew Bobby. To coin a phrase "It is all about Bobby being Bobby ":D

Again you all miss the point, from the interview that I saw BV didn't go out of his way to out Crawford but only answered a question. The media drew the logical conclusion. Again Crawford has only himself to blame for the fallout. Regarding what the media knows about Crawford's character, I think those media types who follow this club knew all about CC, Beckett et al's character long before BV came to town. CC is not a saint nor should he be treated as one. These atheletes make enormous sums of money because they are public figures. If the media weren't already predisposed to questioning Crawford's character they wouldn't have. The responsibility for questioning Crawford's character is Crawford's alone. This enabling bad behavior has to stop if the Red Sox are to change the clubhouse culture. Most successful big league managers down through the years weren't best friends with their ballplayers. Francona tried that approach. It worked well for a while but in the end it didn't. Now it is time for a new approach.

As a nanager, (I am speaking generally not baseball alone) it is sometimes very appropriate to reprimand publically, sometimes it is not. It depends largely on the offense. Private disputes are usually always kept confidential. However, when any employee (including highly paid professional atheletes) commits a public offense it is appropriate to reprimand publically. It is done all the time. I have done so myself in the past and will do so in the future when it is appropriate to do so. In the Red Sox case, BV opponents make not like it but it is should be obvious to everyone, the FO was not upset with BV calling out CC ( even though that is not what I think he did) Otherwise Tom Caron a NESN employee and Nick Carfado a NESN regular never would have made the comments they made including on MLB/ XM radio which has a national audience. The message is loud and clear no more coddling players. BV was hired to do what he did. Francona is gone. His way of managing is gone. BV may not last. He was hired to be fired. He probably won't last 8 years, maybe only 2. But for now this is the way it is going to be. Why, because ownership wants it this way, that's why.

Markov's chains

He siad it when he was an analyst for ESPN during a game. He said the problem was Crawford's ridiculous stance. He said it well before the September collapse. Crawford let he be known he was pissed. BV was advised to contact CC to clear the air. That's how this whole thing got started. BV reached out to all the vets. As far as I know the only snub is from CC who was the only one other than Beckett who had let it be known that they were upset by BV's comments when he was an ESPN analyst. BTW I suggest you read Gammons column. Fegler, Tom Caron an numerous others are making the same observations as I do about CC. What else do you call it when someone acts the way CC has. The best way for him to prove otherwise is to pick up the phone. The longer he fails to do so the more he is making the case that he is one messed up puppy dog.

He did that in the interview I saw. The follow up was so you haven't spoken to him personally etc. At some point you have got to stop covering up for these guys' bad behavior. That was Carfado's point. The FO hired BV because he wouldn't coverup or excuse their bad behavior. Better to do it now then during the season. Let these spoiled underperforming malcontents know where they stand. Coddling them didn't work. That is a direct quote from Cafardo's MLB radio interview. Given his access to NESN and the FO I'd say that is pretty close to the FO's thinking on the matter. Instead of focusing on whether BV handled this well or not, all you BV bashers should be focusing on Gammon's interview about Crawford. That is more worrisome. Regardless of how BV handled the situation, there is clearly something not right with CC.

BV didn't make it a media event. He was asked one question based on what was already known. He could have either told the truth which he did or he could have lied which would have made the situation worse. Crawford''s stupidity is what is making this a media event.

No assumptions just facts based on the reporting. CC won't even talk to Gammons. This isn't about BV. It is about Crawford's immaturity and insecurity and the fact he sucked last year.

My thoughts exactly! Just heard Nick Carfado on MLB XM radio. While he didn't deal with the CC issue directly he made a very valuable point that those BV detractors must realize. BV reaches out to the players they either accept his offer or they don't. If they don't BV won't coddle them the way Francona did. The players have to accept that. BV was selected by ownership exactly because he won't coddle. Carfado who is a lot closer to the FO said that there is no mood among either the fans or ownership to coddle anyone. Those days are over. We now have Tom Caron, NESN employee, and Nick Carfado another NESN regular clearly sending a message to the players that the Francona style of covering up in public for theme is over.

That is essentially what he said. Remember this didn't happen in a vacuum. First everyone was advising BV to reach out and contact the players. He does that. Secondly it was CC who let it be known that he was POed at Valentine's comment about his open stance. So BV is asked the question. He gives your reply (I saw the interview) the result is the same. Fast forward to today. CC is getting ripped inthe press, not BV. The onus is on CC. He is the one putting pressure on himself. He can make this go away in an instant by one phone call. Does he ? No! Why? Because he is either utterly stupid, still POed and unable to get over being criticized and his horrible season or is an emotional basket case. Any and all are possible. This isn't going to blow over until they speak.

With the Red Sox out of it he'll be bidding against himself. I think Madson's price just came down from what the Phillies were willing to pay.

The only PHD Carl Crawford would earn is in piled higher and deeper because he has stepped in s*** on this one.