Elktonnick

I don't to need to know why he is unemployed. The fact that he is speaks for itself.

I think we all know why Cherrington is unemployed. He wasn't going to get a job equal to that he had in Boston. The article merely said what we all know that Cherrington didn't make the major decisions, good bad or indifferent. The article really didn't say anything but state the obvious.

And your basis for that is?

Actually there was I suggest you look at the data on overweight players and their rapid decline. Regarding the reliability or validity of FanGraph projections compared to human projections, there are two points: FanGraph uses humans to interpret the data and set the parameters as to which data to use when constructing their models and projections. Secondly I've seen no objective scientific study on how FanGraphs projections compare to others. If you have seen such a comparative analysis of theirs to others I'd be curious to see it. They may in fact do a better job. They may not. There may be better model than FanGraphs. In any case because of the margin of error being plus or minus 10 games it is not much better than random chance.

I am saying that his playoff numbers seduced him to believe that was better than he was. I am saying that his playoff numbers seduced him to overlook the red flags about his weight and the data on how overweight players decline more quickly than others and have a higher incidence and longer periods on the DL. I am saying that his playoff numbers seduced him to overlook his mediocre dWAR ratings which when correlated on the data on the decline of overweight players seem to suggest that Sandoval would be a less viable 3rd baseman in years 3,4 and 5 of his contract. I am saying that if Sandoval hadn't been such a standout in the palyoffs the Red Sox wouldn't have signed him at all given these issues. So in summation, yes I think Cherrington made a stupid recommendation to Henry to sign Sandoval to that contract and he got fired because of it.

That quote merely states the obvious that Cherrington didn't make the final decision. It doesn't say what his recommendations were or whether he disagreed with the decisions. It reminds me of those political articles citing "anonymous" sources. It is significant that none of those executives would go on the record. One can't but notice that Cherrington is still unemployed.

While I can't say for sure how exactly it went down but I am willing to bet that neither Larry nor John Henry came up with the idea on their own. It was their job to. Ben as the Chief of Baseball operations more than likely went to Larry and to John and said "I think we should try and get Sandoval" Larry and John said what's it going to cost And Ben gave a figure. And Larry and John said yes to the figure. I don't know for sure but I am sure based on everything that's been said about the Red Sox management it went down something like that.

Who made the recommendation? By that reasoning Henry is responsible for everything since he is the owner. Obviously, Henry isn't going to fire himself so he fires the guy who told him that signing Sandoval without a weight clause and at nbr of years and the amount of money was a good idea.

On that we can agree it was a terrible signing. It cost Cherrington his job.

While that is true, it is the only plausible reason for signing him that doesn't make Cherrington look like a total incompetent. I fully expect as the chart on overweight players suggests he'll spend more and more time on the DL, How many years before he is unable to play 3rd except on a part-time basis.

I think we all agree that there were other issues involved in both those cases which trumped all otherl considerations.

We already know howFanGraph calculations and projections produce such wide variability in results that from a scientific statistical point of view they are virtually useless as both the results for Sandoval and Porcello illustrate. That being said, here is a fangraph article on Sandoval Which Pablo Sandoval Did the Red Sox Buy by Eno Sarris - November 24, 2014 It makes the point that because of his weight, he should experience a rapid decline. It really calls it question about the wisdom of the Sandoval signing.

Maybe she will, Maybe she won't. I have never heard anyone say definitively that was the case. It does stretch credibility, however, to say every bad move was some one else's fault. That doesn't strike me as something Cherrington would either admit to or tell to some one outside the organization. Whatever his faults, Cherrington was and is a stand-up guy. I don't see him blaming others for whatever woes may have resulted from deals or trades done on his watch.

You don't pay fat over weight who may be above average hitters but substandard defensively the kind of money Sandoval got, so it is more of a pet theory there are some data to support the hypothesis. I simply don't believe Cherrington would have gone after Sandoval as hard as he did (ignoring the red flags about his weight) if he hadn't had those outstanding playoff number.,

I am going to pull a Kimmi. Who, When and where? I don't recall any such publicized interviews. But I am sure you've heard it somewhere. The proof will be if Ben ever gets an other real baseball job at the chief of baseball operations. Until then I think it is so much wishful thinking because Larry isn't as warm and fuzzy as Ben on TV.

No Ben got him for his outstanding defense and athleticism. The fact that Sandoval had better post season than regular season numbers had absolutely nothing to do with Ben's signing him.

There seems to be this "myth" that all the bad moves were Larry's over ruling Ben. I guess it is because Ben had a more benign public persona. As far as I know there is no objective evidence that substantiates that belief.

I think this article says it all, It appears they only offered the same amount after it was certain that Sandoval was going to leave over the weight issue. His case is somewhat analogous to the Lester fiasco in Boston. Pablo Sandoval on Giants: 'I cut things off at the root' Jorge L. Ortiz9:15 a.m. EDT March 25, 2015 USP MLB: BOSTON RED SOX-WORKOUT S BBA USA FL (Photo: Steve Mitchell, USA TODAY Sports) 4 CONNECT TWEET LINKEDIN 8 COMMENT EMAIL MORE FORT MYERS, Fla. – Pablo Sandoval doesn't do long, tearful goodbyes. He pulls up stakes – more like yanks them – and moves on. So while the new Boston Red Sox third baseman says he didn't mean to disrespect his former San Francisco Giants teammates or their fans with recent comments - he still clearly holds a grudge against the team's management – he's not going out of his way to make amends either. Sandoval changed his phone number and has remained largely incommunicado from the fellows he played with. "New house, new friends,'' Sandoval told USA TODAY Sports in Spanish on Tuesday, his locker at the Red Sox spring training camp strategically positioned between David Ortiz and Hanley Ramirez. "I turned the page and now it's on to a new one. That's the way I am. I'll try to do my best here and hopefully do with my teammates here what we did there. I cut things off at the root.'' USA TODAY Unsafe at home: MLB's Venezuelan stars fleeing country Sandoval's decision in November to take a five-year, $95 million deal from the Red Sox instead of a similar offer from the Giants prompted anguish among fans in the Bay Area, best captured by the San Francisco Chronicle's headline – Beloved Panda escapes. During his seven years with the Giants – three of them concluding in World Series championships, two of them facilitated by his postseason exploits – fans had purchased panda hats by the thousands and embraced the rotund, jovial third baseman. Their feelings were hurt again earlier this month when Sandoval was quoted by Bleacher Report as saying it wasn't hard to leave San Francisco, and the only two guys he missed were manager Bruce Bochy and right fielder Hunter Pence. The comments were at odds with his lively and loud personality in a clubhouse that included at least four of his Venezuelan countrymen. Asked about his statements Tuesday, Sandoval said he meant Bochy and Pence were at the top of his list, not that the rest were insignificant. "I said I miss Hunter and Bochy,'' said Sandoval, 28. "If I start naming the 25 players, I'd spend all day. How could I not miss them? It was a group that formed a dynasty.'' What Sandoval won't back off on is his belief the Giants showed him little respect, offering him three years and $40 million last spring when he was seeking a contract closer to Pence's five-year, $90 million deal. Sandoval was especially bothered by general manager Brian Sabean saying publicly in April that Sandoval's camp had "drawn a line in the sand that we're not going to beat, nor should we meet.'' USA TODAY Dodgers sign Cuban infielder Hector Olivera to a six-year, $62.5 million contract In late November, after Sandoval had another postseason for the ages – batting .366, setting a record with 26 hits and catching the final out of the World Series – the Giants did cross that line. By then it was too late. Sandoval said he declined to consider their final offer, instead opting to head to Boston. "Being a homegrown player, for them not to demonstrate the love for me to come back there, I think that says a lot,'' Sandoval said, sounding matter-of-fact rather than bitter when asked to recount his feelings. "I'm not going to play someplace where I was happy with my teammates but I was personally unhappy with them (management).'' Sandoval has landed on a team that can also claim three World Series titles in the 2000s, although over a longer stretch. The Red Sox ended their epic championship drought in 2004 and also won in 2007 and 2013. The one constant in those clubs was Ortiz, who can compare not only rings but also World Series MVP trophies with Sandoval. They also have weight issues in common. The 6-3 Ortiz said he put on extra weight as his metabolism slowed down in his early 30s, so he dropped 30 pounds one offseason six or seven years ago and typically plays at 260. Now he's sharing his wisdom with Sandoval. David Ortiz says he's warned Pablo Sandoval about the David Ortiz says he's warned Pablo Sandoval about the imminent slowing of his metabolism. (Photo: Corey Perrine, AP) "I've been getting after Pablo about that,'' Ortiz said. "Because Pablo is very agile, but he's 28 now. If he doesn't take care of himself, in a couple of years he could lose that agility overnight. So I'm talking to him about eating better, because if you want to stay in this game, you have to take care of yourself.'' Of course, it's one thing to get that message from a highly respected peer like Ortiz, another one to hear it from your bosses. Sandoval acknowledged he was irritated by what he considered the Giants' harping on his weight, which tended to increase significantly during the season, hampering his defensive range. He pointed out the Red Sox have hired a nutritionist and he's trying to pay heed, but conceded the results don't show so far. He wouldn't reveal where the scales stop, saying simply he's comfortable at his current weight. Sandoval is pleased the Red Sox have not made an issue of his weight, and they smartly refrained from bringing up the topic while pursuing him in the offseason. However, Sandoval's less-than-svelte physique has already created consternation among New England fans, as an unflattering photo early in camp showed him sporting a significant gut. "I'm a professional and I know what I have to do,'' said Sandoval, listed as 5-11 and 255. "I know where I've failed and how I've grown up. If I had signed (with the Giants), I knew I would be under a (weight) regimen for five years, and I'm not going to be happy someplace where I'm under that kind of regimen, where I can't be mysel

I don't buy the strong effort stuff by the Giants, If it had been a truly "strong" effort he'd still be a Giant.

Cherrington was seduced by his playoff performance. He got him for the playoffs. There was always questions about Sandoval as an everyday player.

I agree.

That's not was his dWAR stats show. He had a-0.9 last year but his dWar in was -1.2 in 09, -0.4 in 13, -0.3 in 12. He was 0.6 in 14, 1.8 in 11 and 0.1 in 10. So that stats show that except for 2011 he was never that much above the mean. Given the trend over the last few years it is a better than average bet that he'll have a negative dWAR in 2016. In any case, defensively speaking one can hardly call 2015 a fluke.

Even if he hits he is still going to be a defensive liability at 3rd.

In many respects Kelly has the same issues as does Buchholtz. Both have the tools to be highly successful. IMO both Kelly and Buchholtz's problems are mainly between their ears. Or as Yogi Berra is purported to have said, "Ninety percent of this game is half mental"

I am happy with all the love for Wright. While I agree that Wright would make an excellent nbr 5 starter. However, I am being a realist in the sense I don't see Farrell beginning the season with him there. Since he is out of options, I see him making the 25 as the long man and spot starter. So I see it as the reverse, Kimmi. Given Kelly's velocity, I see that Farrell will go with the "safe" choice of giving Kelly the initial opportunity to stay in the rotation.