jung

Don't understand why they are still waiting for Crawford's surgery. He has done well...I would way prefer that he head into surgery on a positive note than hang around to have the season go sour on him , exacerbate the injury he has or take another injury. Get him into surgery so that he can have some time to prepare for next season.

Yea I should have mentioned agreeing with you on that point as well. They do not win many of the games that reside between pitchers duals and slugfests. You have to be able to do something besides mash in many of those kinds of games. That does require more team play than they have shown this year. V has started to comment about their inability to draw walks and not waiting for pitches they can do something with. You rarely ever see a Sox hitter spoiling pitches which this team used to do regularly. Not this Sox team. Not meaning to distract attention from the starting pitching which is the main problem this team has but its inability to score a run when the really need it rather than score 14, 6 of which might actually meant something to the game they are playing is maddening and part and parcel of their lack of a team offensive concept.

They have not given us any evidence that they can rattle of something like 32-14. They have not gotten close to a run like that and I do not cobble together a scenario where they do it now either. We can always hope but I think hope is all we really have at this point.

The Sox have to go something like 32-14 to get in. They have my best wishes but good luck with those numbers.

I don't remember Tito having to deal with a gassed bullpen as early last year as V has had to deal with it this year. Remember last year Tito had Ace eating innings instead of closing. Regardless of the innings being similar the pen has gassed out earlier this year than last. In any event the innings themselves are very similar. It still makes the point that the pen has been gassed out both years consecutively. That is the main point anyway. The pen had the white flag up last year and has it up again this year.

There is no question that starting pitching is this teams biggest problem and it has been for two years running. That makes it hard to fathom why people would want to basically bring back the same staff again so that it can fail...again. As I have stated before this year's starters have ragged out the bullpen even faster than last years starters. As for wanting to bring back Beckett, his velo is down significantly and has been on the slide now for years. It is not coming back and he has not successfully transitioned to the pitcher he will need to be to survive without velo. Deal with it. He is what he is at this point and either the Sox continue to wait for him to figure this out or they cut bait. I would cut bait. Of the two of them I would likely keep Lester cause he has not lost his velo. His problems are mechanics and a new found (possibly Lackey influenced) inability to deal with setbacks on the mound. Lester falls apart. Either he will get back to more consistent mechanics or he won't. He will stop going into a blue funk every time something goes wrong or he won't. I am willing to bet maybe one more year on Lester. However, I am growing less and less confident that he will ever get his emotions in check on the mound. If I do not see significant improvement before the end of this year, I might cut bait on him also. However there is no denying that the Sox simply cannot manufacture runs. They score 14 one day and can't buy one the next. Everybody is frustrated with that and then acts like it is some sort of luck based anomaly. September was an anomaly...scores 14 and can't score 1 is an anomaly....I have never seen so many excuses made for a team in my entire life. Believe what your eyes should be able to tell you. Beeke is correct IMO. The Sox have assembled talent but have not assembled a team and that is reflected in their lack of a cohesive offensive attack or even effort.

The Rangers offensive effort looks much more cohesive than ours. They are generating more walks. They are looking for pitches that allow them to do specific things with their plate appearances. They use what speed they have better than we use ours. The 2-1 game is clearly a pitchers dual. There is a whole middle ground of games that are not slugfests but are not pitchers duals either and we are for the most a fail in those games. There is no doubt that starting pitching is the biggest problem this team has followed by the inability to mount a cohesive offensive effort.

Yep the Sox are the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. They score a million useless runs when they don't need them ala a 14-1 win and can't buy a run when they need one which is why it is an offense by accident....an offense entirely dependent on mashing the ball and an offense that becomes completely docile when it can't mash because what it does as a group does not represent a cohesive offensive effort.

The problem with just projecting a return to career numbers for Lester is that he has issues that he must resolve. It is not like his poor performance has landed in from Mars and is likely to return to Mars during the off season. Lester has mechanical issues that he must resolve for one thing. He has to get back to the more consistent Lester with regard to his mechanics. Also while Lackey's on the mound antics may or may not have an impact on the way he pitches it should be very clear by now that when Lester falls into a funk about am ump call or something else it does have an impact on how he pitches. He simply falls apart. That is also an issue he has not had to deal with in the past and does not have an answer for currently.

The rotation is the broken record.....the needle bouncing at the same spots as the platter turns every time.....fail....fail....fail....fail...Buch....fail....fail....fail....fail....Buch. Every once and awhile there is a glimmer of hope generally provided by the generosity of some poor schmuck team that can barely stay out of the basement of its division but can fight our Sox to a series draw.

We have had so few SS in Boston that actually were really good at fielding the position. While we had him for only three years at the very end of his career, I cannot help but put a vote in for Luis Aparicio at SS. He was still a very good defender later in his career when he got to Boston but was nothing at that point like he was early in his career. Still and all it is hard for me to rank other Red Sox fielding SS above Luis as we have had so few SS that could make exceptional plays. More often than not a Red Sox SS is often considered good as a defender if he just makes the plays that are right in front of him, the plays that he should make. We have almost never had SS's that could range left and right, charging the ball and make plays that we would consider spectacular (Iggy like) plays at SS. Luis was that sort of SS. Maybe the only Boston SS I can think of that played the position that way. Part of the problem for Iggy is that you have to go all the way back to Luis to even consider that sort of SS play here in Boston. If Robin Yount had played in Boston he would have been immortalized here as the greatest SS to have ever played the game. While Robin was a great player that sort of tells you how far away from guys like Ozzy Smith, Luis Aparicio, possibly Iggy and Mark Belanger we are historically here in Boston when it comes to SS play.

I agree with 700. This tinkering around the edges smacks of the same thinking that killed this year. We are now finally hearing V say some of the same things about the inability of this lineup to gel as a cohesive offense that many of us have been saying for a long time now. He has begun talking about the things that the Sox hitters simply do not do and he does not sound to complimentary doing it either. Why do you think we can score 14 runs one day and can't buy a run the next? As for the rotation, the Sox in my view are actually fortunate in that it is an all or nothing shot. Bringing in a legit #1 while being difficult can take this rotation from the basement to the penthouse (along with dumping Beckett). Bring in a real 1, put Buch behind him with either Lester (if fixed and still here) or Felix or Frank or maybe even Lackey as the 3 and the others rounding out the backend....basement to penthouse rotation...baring injury. However, bringing in another 3 does nothing to resolve the issues with this rotation. As for the lineup, this lineup does not work. We have to stop stubbornly pointing to the individual talents of the players that make up the lineup and deal with the fact that it does not work as a whole. V is finally now talking about this and the suggestion is that this lineup may not be able to gel to produce a cohesive offensive effort and I am in complete agreement. We have two left handed speed guys at the top that do not draw walks. That is at least one left handed speed guy at the top that does not draw walks to many. It should be clear by now that two guys like that in Fenway will always be underutilized and ineffectual as part of a cohesive offensive effort. Makes no sense. The middle of the lineup is choked with guys with little to no plate discipline. Ortiz is the only hitter in the Sox lineup talented enough to be that free swinging. They all want to and try to approach their plate appearances in terms of how Ortiz approaches his and not a single one of them is talented enough to do it. The bottom of the line up just always seems like a bunch of leftovers. The lineup needs to be constructed sensibly from top to bottom with the guys at the bottom having roles just as important as the guys at the top, just different. In the first place a Fenway lineup will always be able to utilize speed at the bottom better than it can utilize speed at the top. Guys like Iggy and Ceriaco may actually be more able to contribute to building a cohesive offensive effort than Ells and Crawford can simply because they will put speed down at the bottom of the lineup where a Sox team can use it. In fact I no longer want to see those two LH speed guys at the top of the lineup against LH pitchers. That lineup will look much better with CC batting 9th against LH pitchers. At least we won't see two speed guys getting on and then remaining pinned where they are because the power hitters are coming up in the lineup. Put CC 9th against LH pitchers and let him run wild in front of Ells if he gets on. As for who to move in the offseason...there are some guys that really can't be traded because their contracts are so bad or because we have no way to mitigate the lose of a particular player. Everyday players I would be reluctant to include in trades would be CC (cause we would get raped), WMB, Ross, Lavs, Agons. I would likely even be reluctant on guys like Ceriaco depending on how I was planning out the future of this team and this lineup. I would love to keep Iggy for the same reason but I suspect the Sox would trade Iggy if they had a chance to do it. Any organization that can insert Aviles as its everyday SS does not know how to think about the SS position nor can it possibly appreciate Iggy for what he represents. Ortiz is on one year deals and the market for an Ortiz is really restricted anyway. I would be willing to discuss anybody else as part of a multiplayer deal that would bring us a #1 and I do mean anybody else.

54 pitches through 2 1/3. This could deteriorate very quickly for Lester today. Once he gets going the wrong way lately the opponent tends to go nuts over a very short period.

No question that Salty is better trade bait. If they can move Salty in a deal this year then do it. I was thinking more about the marginal dif between the two presuming Lavs is the primary catcher next year and both Salty and Shop getting no interest from teams this year. But if there is an opportunity to move Salty this year, by all means do it. If there is an opportunity to move Shop this year do it. I have just lost so much faith in this FO that I am no longer confident what they could do in the near term. Not sure they are capable of pulling the trigger on anything more complicated than the fourth 3rd baseman on some single A team playing someplace...and they would probably get nervous making that move as well.

Well Sox have their 5 today. Will that be enough for Lester?

Regardless of all the stuff revolving around catcher, I think long term, Salty gives the Sox more flexibility than Shop does. This assumes Lavs as the primary catcher next year. Lavs has to be the primary catcher next year with Salty the backup....Salty should not be the primary catcher for this team. Shop should very likely have caught more games than he has this year if your two catchers are Shop and Salty. If your two catchers are Lavs and Salty next year then Lavs should get the bulk of the games as the primary. If Lavs and Shop then Lavs should still get the bulk of the games. Yes Shop is a better catcher than Salty but I suspect that the gap between the two is not as wide as we would like to think. I know about ERA gap between pitchers to Salty and pitchers to Shop and there is no denying that there is a trend here starting with Salty/Tek and now extending through Salty/Shop. But as long as Lavs is the primary then you have a right/left catcher combo since Salty appears to bat better from the left than he does from the right anyway. Frankly, Shop does not provide targets much better than Salty does. Clearly there are other things Shop is doing better than Salty with regard to handling pitchers. Since Salty has improved his throwing I think he has narrowed the gap to Shop there. Salty has not really improved as a receiver. Shop has a marginal edge there. Shop is certainly better at taking throws from the outfield in the effort to cut down runners as Salty's glove appears to still have to find the ball with no help from Salty as in more luck than planning. I have wanted the Sox to keep Aviles but only as their utility infielder, getting rid of Punto. Based on how the Sox have handled SS I am no longer confident that the Sox will ever get it and I suspect they will continue to insert Aviles as the everyday SS if he is on this team. They are apparently to stupid to figure this out. If I could regain confidence that the Sox would use Aviles as the utility infielder next year and even insert him in the OF in a pinch I would love for the Sox to keep him. Sox FO has proven so inept that I just don't think they will get it right. If they can't get it right then I would prefer Aviles be gone. I would prefer Ceriaco to Aviles and would prefer Iggy to Aviles as well. By next year Iggy should be ready although based on recent comments on Iggy from the FO, they are now setting unreasonable expectations for him bordering on the inane. I suppose there is the possibility that the Sox would bring in a SS waiting for the kid behind Iggy to make it up from AA ball. However the Sox really need to put their efforts into pitching before they devote time to everyday player trades or FA moves. The Sox being the Sox, they will likely screw that up as well.

Aviles and Shop must have been in a second waivers offering. Think Punto and Crawford were announced first and at the same time. I did not even see the Shop, Aviles announcement. Would love to see Aviles go....wouldn't have to worry about him being inserted in the lineup at SS

It is either laugh or cry at this point

I am sure Indian's fans are so happy to have the circus come to town. For our part we are so lucky to have 81 circus dates right in downtown Boston. It would however be nice to have a ML baseball team in Boston again. One can always hope.

Without any rational for believing it will get any better anytime soon as the guys in management and baseball operations are just clueless....complete utter idiots when it comes to the actual game of baseball.

Those comments from the Sox in the Herald article are about the most ridiculous set of comments about the SS position I have ever seen in my entire lifetime. None of those comments expressed any understanding for the difference between SS and any other defensive position on the field. Explains perfectly why butcher Aviles is allowed to be the Red Sox everyday SS. The Sox FO and Management appears full of math majors with nobody that has ever picked up a baseball bat or actually played a game of baseball in their entire lives. Now on top of demanding better offense from Iggy they are demanding better power offense from Iggy. Are they completely out of their minds or are they asinine for the sheer pleasure of being able to prove that they are in power? Forget it...just trade Iggy and be done with it. I hope they trade him to an AL team so we can watch him come back and spoil entire Red Sox innings with his defense...that is assuming that the Red Sox will ever again be able to mount an offense that actually has rallies to spoil. We can then be treated to a chorus of pink hats wondering aloud why we "never get players like that" or we will hear "who is that guy and where did he come from" when Iggy returns in an enemy uni. These guys are stupid...just plain stupid without the slightest notion of what actually happens in a baseball game. As for JH and LL, I can only hope that they are finally stung in the only place they seem to care about...their pockets. The Red Sox insistence on leaving nothing for real baseball fans to look forward to is just beyond belief. Sure we will give you more carnival atmosphere and idiotic stuff to spend your money on but baseball...forget it...the baseball itself has become background noise and the background noise has become the center of attention. They are headed straight for the basement this year and I am now pretty much resigned to them staying there as they simply have no clue. My lasting memory of the 2012 Sox will be that idiot JH clapping from the owners box like some giddy teenager at her first Justin Bieber concert, oblivious to the complete disaster that is the 2012 Red Sox.

The problem with the Youk trade is not that they traded Youk...The problem is that they got nothing for him.

And in the last 30 games the the bull pen has averaged a little more than 3 innings per game. So the starters have averaged slightly less than 6 innings per game. That is just abysmal. No wonder the bull pen is shot....for the second year in a row. Frankly that just reeks of ineptitude. The rotation sucked last year and burned out the bull pen as a result...did they fix that at all....starting pitching....only the most important single element in baseball and do they fix it? No. If anything their starting pitching is worse this year than last when they were ranked 22. Their starters are currently ranked 26th. I don't care how much money they were trying to save this year...to have gone into the season with so many issues in starting pitching was laughable for a team "pretending" to be contesting for the championship. We are so gullible. As usual they managed to slip another curve ball past us, something Red Sox pitchers rarely accomplish. Somehow they managed to skate by on the notion that last year's pitching problems were all the fault of Wake and Lackey. In reality when you consider how much of a disaster Sox starting pitching would have been were it not for the 160 and 154 innings those two guys chipped in for the Sox last year they were not exactly dogs. Lackey is far from my favorite player, not by a long shot but the amount of blame laid at Wake and Lackey's feet last year is only rivaled by the amount heaped on Beckett and Lester this year and as usual misses the point entirely. The Sox have not focused nearly enough attention on starting pitching choosing instead to mask the real issues by steering our attention to side shows like whether a guy like Bard could transition to the 5 hole in the rotation from his pen role. The warning signs were all there for 1,2 and 3 in the rotation with 3 being the only guy to beat the odds and come through. The fact that 1 and 2 have not faired as well does not change the fact that the Sox had no plan for the inevitable issues that would strike the rest of the rotation that was inserted at the beginning of the season. Even if Bard did not self destruct he surely would have hit an innings ceiling and the plan was what??? Sign somebody during the season??....sure they were. Given that they could get past Bard what were they going to do when Felix hit his innings ceiling....sign somebody else? Sure they were. Oh wait now I remember...dice to the rescue. We were going to depend on a guy just coming off TJ that had not been much of a pitcher before the surgery. What are they going to do when Frank runs out of gas.....who the hell knows. At one point we were hearing about a six man rotation as if they ever had six starting pitchers that could pitch....sure they did. So since they never had more than about 2/3 to 3/4 of a season covered in starting pitching, do you mind telling me how that was a realistic plan to actually contend for anything? What was the plan... forfeit the rest of the games? If we are lucky baseball will treat this Sox organization like the joke it surely is. That is our only hope at this point. The public image minded Sox organization may finally be forced to action by way of recognizing that baseball in its entirety realizes that the emperor truly has no cloths. They have been fully exposed and frankly, on top of everything else lets just say they fall a bit short where it counts.

Boy I do not think the Sox will try to get away with keeping Beckett here. I think they will keep Lester here. While the Sox are not going to like paying a big chunk of his salary, I think Beckett is to much associated with the Sox recent failures even with the numbskulls that make up to large a % of the fan base. I do think I see your point though Brennan and I think it is a valid one. The Sox will make a big fuss about making changes that matter and there will be a good deal of noise about players they are looking at just like there was this year. However at the end of it all hardly anything will change. But I do think they end up moving Beckett. Moving Beckett while the right thing to do is still so far away from where they need to go. Unless they grow some big hairy balls, I think they will doom themselves to yet another year of bouncing around just above he basement. Might be OK if they plan it as a bridge year and work it as a bridge year. If not it will just be a wasted year.

You are not far off from right 3rdMan. They really should bring up the few remaining guys that should be up here gaining some experience and showing us their stuff. This season is done. I want to see Iggy up here at this point. Believe me when I tell you that the chance we will ever see Iggy play significant time in a Red Sox uni is slim to none. Any team capable of making the Aviles decision is simply to wrong headed about the SS position to go with Iggy, even if he can hit 240 or so in the majors. Lets get Iggy up here and see how he plays. Maybe the nitwit Red Sox FO will recognize how much of a difference that sort of SS can make. However their utter stupidity about the SS position may just be to much to overcome. Lets have Iggy at SS and Ciriaco at 3rd. Also lets see Ciraico at 2nd with Iggy at SS. If the Sox finally grow some balls and at least consider the kinds of bold moves it will take to bring us a #1 for the rotation, we will likely at least want to have some idea how things might look around here. I want to see Lavs behind the plate...Iggy at SS, Ciriaco playing some 2nd and some 3rd. I want Kalish back up here where he belongs on a team that is headed for nowhere. Sox need to think about what the team might look like if they finally cut ties with Ortiz...a possibility I think unless he is really willing to take less money to get his two year deal. We may want to look at what things would be like without Pedey as much as we love him. He is in my view the only Sox player you could build a multiplayer package around that might get you a #1 for the rotation coming back. Although a lineup with Ellls and Crawford back to back at the top is frankly kinda' problematic (use your eyes folks not your hearts), I don't see the Sox trading Ells. What are they going to get back for him. Keep Ells, try to convince him to stay on a deal that the team can tolerate. If not, let him play out his contract and prepare to see Bradley in CF.