iortiz

No, You can not compare them. Lackey was a solid pitcher before coming to Boston and was paid as an Ace. Pap is an ace and wil be paid as an ace. Again, you are mixing oranges with apples.

You are twisting the things. If you think that Papelbon can be compared with Lackey, good luck.

Bingo. I just figured out what is getgo.

Just for the record. I said that you pay long term contracts to aces. You never ever overpay long term contracts. 50/4 is not overpaying to me. The ceiling is in 15 anyway, isnt it?, so...

I thought that somehow I already answered this. I will try to do it better. You pay long term contracts to Aces. Stars. Elite players. There are a handful in each position. Papelbon is in that category in his position. We paid Lackey as he was an ace. He was solid but not even close to be an ace. You do not do that. Theo constantly did that, reason why he is gone (among others). He signed average/solid/good players and paid 'em as if they were aces. I believe, you already know the cases. Large market/payrolls teams are and arguably will continue paying long term contracts to aces. Our case match with this. The KEY is to know how/whom/when to do this. Yes, it is not trivial, reason why GMs are usually well paid in order to plan and execute that. You don't miss an opportunity like this since aces do not grow in trees or just because you shitted the bed in the recent past at the FA. You just do the opposite. You learn and execute signing aces when available or at least you explore/try/do your best to afford 'em.. In our case we didn't even do that (We didn't even presented a formal proposal) Yes, still there is a risk, but aces minimize it. Papelbon is an ace. Rivera is making 15 MUSD. Pap will make 12.5 M. There is a +- 17%. IMO it is fair, considering their numbers/performance and mostly since Papelbon is in his prime and is young but mature/experienced and well projected and Rive is the best. Hope that I had answered your question. We have plenty discussed this matter in other threads. I encourage you to read them for more fully details. Don't take me wrong but I don't want to pass through this again.

And you haven't read/understood my point. You are comparing apples with oranges. Numbers, eviorement, division, abilities, market, times, etc. He.is.the.best.closer.we.ever.had......proved and arguably the best projected in the position for the next 4 years in the game. That is called value. I guess this is what Philadelphia saw in him and you certainly did not. Comprende?

I'm not saying that Bard is likely our next elite closer. I want to believe that he will be. But I don't think that he is ready yet. That's just my perception. I really wish I'm wrong. We'll see.

I truely believe that and more now since he will be surrounded by aces.

Bard is not even close to be ready for the shut down job. Maybe It would take him two or maybe three years and become something close to Papelbon, but today he is not ready, let's face it.

What continues murdering the logic is that you don't understand and probably will never understand the fact, that Papelbon is not one of those relievers that you just suggested or one of those Theo's FA busts. Again, he is a proved and successful closer in the AL East in one of the most complicated evioremnts to play the game; and again, as a closer with all that it represents. IMO, the closer spot has evolved a lot in baseball and mostly in the last decade. This is not the case for DHs. Closers are no longer commodities (DHs are becoming) but specialities; don't believe me? How many closers are out there like Papelbon? I wouldn't count not even a handful. Teams that want to run as contenders these days and in the coming future, must have an elite closer, since the league is turning more and more competitive and they could mark the difference between winning or lossing rings. I wouldn't be surprise if setup guys become specialities as well in the near future. But That's me. Yes, stop overpriced and extended contracts but not in your ace in the BP.

Some will tell you that he is not Mo, and certainly he is not, BUT who the hell is better projected than him for the next 4 years, these days?. Regardless he has proved the he can handle the pressure in Boston and consistently shut down games in the AL EAST. What I like the most about the guy is that he has the balls for the job (needed in a closer) and I never heard him complaining or making an excuse/easy way out when he shitted the bed. Hell, he is a 2.33 ERA closer after seven seasons averaging 60 IP +.

Seems like we are not the only crazy in the neighborhood.

SET UP for what? a lose? That made me throw up a bit.

:thumbsup:

I definitely like that lineup E1. My only concern would be: since the RedSox arguably are not considering to go over the cap (likely, since let Pap walk), how much money would we have available after these signings (Ortiz, Beltran) in order to fill the other needs which btw IMO those are our #1 priority (SP, BP arms and pitching depth)? we have 20 M before the cap, right? From what I read, Cherington is trying to resign Ortiz, and exploring Beltran avenue as well, but I'm not sure whether he is considering signing both.

If they sign Reyes they will likely run as the #1 2012 WS contender team again, and somehow I have a feeling that NY is moving quietly and a bomb could explode anytime from now. That would piss me off. We? ... Well, you know our story. Seems like we are focusing in the manager, Sizemore and Theo's compensation, but don't worry this November.

A700 es mi compadre! You can be as well

The context was these days?, yes! But in moving foreward context, since he just signed a 4 year contract and with the damn Phillie. That has been the heart of the discussion. Did I miss something? BTW I won't disrespect you E1, as you just did. I blame and sometimes bitch Theo, Lackey, D-K, Cameron, McDonald, etc. but never, ever a poster. I could be disagree but I have not insulted a poster, never, ever. After all, I still like debate with you and learn from you if you allow me. This is baseball. Nothing personal. Peace!

The name is Bard? When you say this, do you mean it in the short term (2012), mid term (2013-2014) or long term (2015-)? IMO 2012 No 2013 Unlikely 2014 50-50 2015 likely