SoxFanForsyth

If his bat was good enough for 1B they would have played him there over Loney after the trade. Instead they played Loney. That alone should be enough to convince people that he needs to go. He's not a good catcher and he's certainly not good enough to back up 1B.

Haha exactly. It's a very valid question. If the Sox went from 90 wins to 69 wins, what was the reasoning? The answer is underperformance and injuries, both of which are items that correct themselves without acquisitions.

I have a question for you Ted. Why did the Sox go from an 90 win team in 2011 to a 69 win team in 2012? The loss of Lackey? The loss of Varitek? Wakefield? If all results come from turnover, then how did the Sox go from, what should have been a PS team but ended up still at 90 wins to a 69 win team?

I'm not sure he won't. But with guys like Webster, De La Rosa, and Morales waiting in the wings, they won't just sit and watch him go out and puke every 5 days like they did in 2011. This is why the SP depth is so important this year.

That's not true. Simply not true. Adding Ortiz for 72 games makes us better. Adding Middlebrooks for 87 games makes us better. Adding a healthy Ellsbury for 90 games makes us better Adding Ryan Dempster makes us better, assuming he replaces Cook/DiceK/Stewart. Lackey, at worst, should replace Beckett's 2012 production. Wash. Lester and Buch should return to their career levels. Doubront will likely take progress his career. He had very good peripherals last year and a sub-4 xFIP, so he will likely improve. I'm just saying. Just getting healthy and performing to their talent levels rather than 1/2 of their talent levels will improve this club tremendously. Not to mention all the BobbyV s*** is gone now, which takes away daily scrutiny and they can just go play. Jackso you can laugh all you want. It's going to be funny when your sig says you're my bitch.

Well I thought Bard wouldn't turn into a train wreck and we'd be giving a season's worth of starts to Cook/Dice/Stewart. Injuries and underperformance are what killed the Sox in 2012. The 2013 version is deeper at SP, have a much, much better bullpen, and a top 5 lineup. We'll see. I'm staying with my 90 wins, PS berth projection.

I disagree vehemently on the Yankees, Rangers, Rays, and A's. But, at this point, we will just agree to disagree and bragging rights will be bestowed by year end.

Sox record with Ortiz in the lineup: 46-44 (.511) Sox record with Middlebrooks in the lineup: 43-32 (.573) Getting those two players back healthy alone will make up a huge number of games. Jon Lester average record in full seasons (prior to 2012): 16-8 Jon Lester record in 2012: 9-14 Difference: 7 Wins DiceK, Stewart, and Cook record in 2012 (33 GS): 5-20 John Lackey average record with the Red Sox: 13-12 Difference: 8 Wins Josh Beckett 2012 Record: 5-11 Ryan Dempster career record: 124-124 Difference: 3 Wins 2012 Red Sox Bullpen: 21 Losses Elite bullpens in the AL (which is what the Sox now have): Bal (11 Losses), Oak (14 Losses). Difference: 7-10 Wins And you can't see how we will pick up 20 games from last year? Not to mention that the 69 wins was not indicative of the Red Sox team last year due to injuries? When Ortiz went down, the Sox were 46-44 (83 win pace). And they were 4-1 coming out of the ASB. Ortiz was a huge, huge part of the Sox offense last year. Losing him hurt tremendously. Now they have him back. And you're going to tell me that if they had received career norm performance from their pitching, and had a lights out bullpen they wouldn't have been able to pick up 1-2 more games in that initial 90 game stretch? Hell if the pen doesn't implode in Detroit or against the Yankees (which they won't this year, look at the talent), they're 48-42 when Ortiz goes down. That's a .533 W% and a 86 win pace, and that's with horrid, horrid pitching that will likely rebound from last year. To say that they were a 69 win team is extremely misleading. I would like to hear you name me 5 teams in the AL better than the Red Sox.

I said it as a joke because it's so incredibly overused. Though I must admit, he is certainly skinnier than I've ever seen him.

Well the trade 100% put them over the edge. Was it a combination of events? Certainly. My whole point was that 9-27 was not indicative of the team that they had last year. You can't just choose 23 games and forget the other 100 games. If Lester throws to a 2.08 ERA in August, is he going to throw to a 2.08 ERA the rest of the year? No. You can't just put an arbitrary endpoint on something to prove your point. And regardless, like Pal pointed out, they were missing heaps of players. The whole trade was more of a timestamp than anything. The team they put out there from August 23rd to the end of the season was not anything like the team that we had out there the majority of the season, when they played .472 baseball. That's my whole point. With so many players gone and/or on the shelf, you can't say "Oh we have to make up 20+ games" because it's not even close to the same team that represented 20% of the season.

Here is the "You won't even recognize him now" John Lackey http://images.scribblelive.com/2013/2/5/a26e0e39-19fc-4a02-9170-4f98679f9b2d_400.jpg

At the time of the trade, the Sox were 59-66 (.472 W%). That is good for 77 wins (76.5 to be exact) wins on the season. I said 78-80, so whatever, a discrepancy of 1-3 wins. The point is, they were much better than 69 wins. And to say they have to make up 20+ games is misleading because they were much better than a 69 win team last year. Losing Middlebrooks and Ortiz crushed this team last year. Not to mention the 21 losses accumulated by the bullpen. Hell, I can think of 3 games alone where the pen absolutely imploded (DET, NYY, LAA) and lost the game by giving up more than 5 runs, which won't happen with this bullpen, maybe once. Again, if this team stays healthy and players actually perform to their career norms, they are around a 90 win team. I'd sig bet with you but I'm already in with Jackso.

They were actually about 10 games ahead of us. Like I said before, the record was not at all an indication of the team. Besides injuries and underperformance, we had a team go 9-27 in their last 36 because of the massive trade that just sucked all life and talent off the team. They were much closer to a 78-80 win team last year. Get rid of the underperformance, injuries, toxic clubhouse, and horrid manager, and you've got an 88-90 win team.

Ross generated 75% of Salty's WAR (1.5 WAR to 2.0 WAR) in 50% of the games (62 games to 120 games). Ross wRC+: 109. Salty wRC+: 95 Ross wOBA: .334. Salty wOBA: .319 Ross is a better catcher. I would much rather have Ross at 70 games and Lavarnway at 90 games than Salty at all.

I think you'll see a deal of Salty + 1 of the relief pitchers for a LH bat that can play OF and 1B (Carp?)

If the assumption is that we will sustain the same amount (MLB record setting) injuries and underperformance, then I agree. But personally, I would not project a season based on the performance of a roster filled with more AAA players than Opening Day players.

HAPPY TRUCK DAY!!!! http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0208/bos_fenway_truck_576.jpg

I think most Sox fans are ok with it because we all know that he's just a shell of the player he used to be, so the Yankees spent a lot of money on a .245/.350/.435 player.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/grumpy-cat-i-had-fun-once-it-was-awful.jpeg

I'm surprised they're not having a final game under the lights at an MLB stadium this year.

Finally, here is the 2013 Spring Training schedule. And yes, I'm sick, which is why I have all the time in the world to post all of this crap. The Red Sox have 38 games scheduled in Florida, with spring training exhibitions commencing Feb. 21 at JetBlue Park in Fort Myers. Date Opponent Site Time Thu., Feb. 21 Northeastern JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Boston College TBA Sat., Feb. 23 Tampa Bay JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Sun., Feb. 24 St. Louis Jupiter 1:05 p.m. Mon. Feb. 25 Tampa Bay (ss) Port Charlotte 1:05 p.m. Toronto (ss) Dunedin 1:05 p.m. Tue., Feb. 26 St. Louis JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Wed., Feb. 27 Baltimore Sarasota 7:05 p.m. Thu., Feb. 28 Pittsburgh Bradenton 1:05 p.m. Fri., March 1 Pittsburgh JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Sat., March 2 Minnesota Hammond Stadium 1:05 p.m. Sun., March 3 NY Yankees JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Mon., March 4 Tampa Bay JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Tue., March 5 Team Puerto Rico* JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Wed., March 6 Pittsburgh JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Thu., March 7 Minnesota Hammond Stadium 1:05 p.m. Fri., March 8 Minnesota JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Sat., March 9 Baltimore JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Sun., March 10 Tampa Bay Port Charlotte 1:05 p.m. Mon., March 11 Miami Jupiter 1:05 p.m. Tue., March 12 Toronto JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Thu., March 14 Minnesota Hammond Stadium 1:05 p.m. Fri., March 15 Minnesota (ss) JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Baltimore (ss) Sarasota 1:05 p.m. Sat., March 16 Tampa Bay Port Charlotte 1:05 p.m. Sun., March 17 Tampa Bay JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Mon., March 18 Pittsburgh Bradenton 1:05 p.m. Tue., March 19 Baltimore JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Wed., March 20 NY Yankees Tampa 1:05 p.m. Thu., March 21 Philadelphia JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Fri., March 22 Toronto Dunedin 1:05 p.m. Sat., March 23 Pittsburgh JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Sun., March 24 Philadelphia Clearwater 1:05 p.m. Mon., March 25 Baltimore Sarasota 1:05 p.m. Wed., March 27 Miami JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m. Thu., March 28 Minnesota JetBlue Park 7:05 p.m. Fri., March 29 Minnesota Hammond Stadium 1:05 p.m. Sat., March 30 Minnesota JetBlue Park 1:35 p.m.

Also, I think this year will be really interesting, as even when the starters are out, there are still a lot of interesting players to watch. Webster, De La Rosa, Bradley, Morales, Wilson. Relievers like Tazawa, Uehara, Hanrahan, and Bard will all be worth watching as well. Lots of new faces, lots of young kids. Should be a really fun ST.

One week from today, pitchers and catchers report!!! For those who get NESN, Live from Ft Myers starts next Sunday at 6 pm. I don't know about anyone else, but I love these shows, mostly because it means that baseball is right around the corner. First Sox spring training game is February 21. That's two weeks from Thursday. World Baseball Classic starts in early March. Bogaerts will be playing for the Netherlands, so be sure to catch those games if you can. Here's to better years ahead. Spring training, where eternal optimism mounts, is right around the corner.

Man ill certainly be at the game, and even if we don't get seats near each other, we can certainly meet up at the game. I'm so pumped for baseball to start back up!

Hahaha Ted. Your sig. Brutal.