jacksonianmarch

they built that "monoply" over decades of sustained success. It is more of an earned thing than anything else. That being said, if Bud somehow got a salary structure that forced NY into a lower salary range, then Cashman and Co would explode on the INTL FA market as well as the draft

I think Clay has periods of flat out dominance mixed in with spells of wild inconsistency. He's a young pitcher entering what he hopes to be his first full season as a starting pitcher in the majors. It is rare that a pitcher at his age and experience level doesnt have a few bumps in the road. I do agree that his stuff is legit and if he gets through the next few seasons without imploding mentally or exploding physically then he has a shot at being a top of the rotation pitcher

The sox committed $209 million to their team prior to 2007. That is not a debatable argument

Gom, the sox do not win the 2007 world series without Josh Beckett. They went to 7 games in Cleveland, and Beckett won two of them. No matter what kinda killer streak Hanley was on, he wouldnt have won 4 games on his own (which Beckett did).

First of all, Hughes had much better control than Robertson, lets just get that straight. Since Hughes was converted to the pen, he walked 13 batters in 51.1IP. Robertson walked 23 batter in 43IP. Hughes control was MUCH better. Also, Hughes had about 3-4 mph more on the heater so a lot of his pitches were designed to be high. 97mph at the letters is a very difficult pitch to hit. He was effective throwing basically one pitch all season until he got the playoffs when he looked like he started to tire. 94mph instead of 97mph and the ball wasnt staying on the corners or up at the letters. It was drifting to the middle and was dropping to the belt. Anyone can hit that. Cmon Gom, you are better than that. I know you "watch the game" but you obviously werent watching it with the intent of sounding knowledgable about it.

You keep forgetting the 51 mil it took to talk with DiceK. If you are going to go by AAV on the 2007 FA bonanza for the sox.... DiceK $17.2 mil AAV (6 yrs and 103 mil overall) Drew $14.0 mil AAV (5 yrs and 70 mil overall) Lugo $9.0 mil AAV (4 yrs and 36 mil overall) That's an AAV of $40.2 mil and an overall cost of $209 million. Like I have said before, I know that the yankees bought the WS this yr. I am admitting it. But sox fans should not be denying that they did the same thing, on about half the scale, in 2007. At the same time, you could say that the sox were filling their team with complementary pieces for that $209 mil since they already had an ace and a #2 in Beckett and Schilling and that Drew and Lugo were brought in to be complementary pieces to Manny and Papi. For NY, they added a #3 hitter, an ace and their #2. So one could make the argument that NY needed to spend twice as much because they werent filling their lineup with complementary players, they were filling the crux of their team out.

So since the sox only spent $209 million in one offseason, that doesnt mean they bought their championship? I find it funny that sox fans throw the "bought a championship" line. The sox did that twice. Good for them. Good for NY for the win this yr. When a small market team wins a championship with all cheap, home grown or scrap heap talent, then I will truly say that they didnt "buy" their championship (see 2003 Marlins). Otherwise, the championships are bought.

Mino, if the sox did all that, then they would be tough to beat

You dont read well as usual. Having players 1-2 yrs off does the 2010 Red Sox no good. That resource is dry as of right now. It isnt as self-replenishing as it had been. By 2011, it will be better, by 2012 and 2013, it should be a pretty solid resource again

I am talking about the successes of one franchise. Name me another franchise in the world of soccer, cricket, etc that has THAT kind of success

Name me another team that has won 25% of the titles since their inception in organized sports. Name me another team that made it to the final game/series 37% of the time. As much as you hate them, you need to give them their due

I have never denied that we bought a world series. Just like sox fans shouldnt deny that they bought 2 world series.

I would guess that the assumption would be that the sox would have gone out and gotten a true #1 starter in that time without giving up Hanley. That being said, I disagree with Gom's assumption. Also, it is kinda painful to think about that farm system prior to the Beckett deal. Lester, Buchholz, Sanchez, Bowden as starters. Papelbon, Delcarmen in the bullpen. Youkilis, Pedroia, Hanley in the IF, Ellsbury and Murphy in the OF. That was a pretty strong farm. Recent trades and callups have drained that resource for now.

We wouldnt win the division without those three if we replaced them with internal candidates. That much is true. But we dont win the world series without the resurgence of the guys we already had

Dipre, the Mets went down to the playoff wire in 2008 before bowing out. They needed to ride him. If we had Santana, we probably would have been 4 or 5 wins better than we were in 2008, which would have put us right up against it with Boston for the WC. Do you really think that we'd be resting Johan if it was a dead heat between NY and Boston for one playoff spot? Absolutely not. He'd be getting whipped out there just as hard. Regardless, that's all water under the bridge. And just to dig Gom a bit more, Cashman has always denied that Kennedy was the center of any deal. Cashman has always maintained that any discussed deal started and subsequently ended with Hughes.

y228 is right on the money here. Yes, we bought 3 players who were key cogs in the machine. But I think an even bigger factor was the resurgence of the players we already had. Pettitte had a very good year. Jeter played on a career yr level. Posada went back to being Posada. And the rest y228 has already profiled. There were two things that put us over the top. The first was having 3 reliable pitchers in the rotation. The second was filling the black hole at the catchers position with a bat that was capable of being a middle of the order stick in Posada. Posada's resurgence as well as Matsui's resurgence left little for the bottom of the order guys to do. In the lower pressure environment, Cano had the second best yr of his career and Melky had a career yr. That helps keep the line moving. When we monkeyed around with Cano in the 5 hole or Melky as leadoff or batting second like we did at times in 2008, they struggled. Those two things allowed everything else to fall into place. I already profiled the lineup, but having three pitchers regularly hand the ball to the pen in or after the 7th inning was clutch. Our pen in 2008 actually was pretty good, but you cannot be giving the ball to them in the 5th inning on a regular basis like we did that yr with Ponson, Rasner and other useless retreads. In a sense we were lucky. In another sense (Wang) we werent. But having 60% of the games be pitched by the same three guys was huge.

The only big thing about Granderson is that he offers good defense in CF as well as 30 homer and 20+SB potential. His splits are alarming, I do agree with that. And taking on $18 mil of Magglio would suck. Its just an idea, but I would rather see us retain our guys than get that duo.

His argument was that Hanley could have brought you more championships if you kept him. I dont agree with that sentiment, but that is his sentiment

BTW, Anderson is going to have a BIG yr this yr in Portland and will be in Pawtucket come the trade deadline.

I went to him because we are on a sox website and he is the most obvious example of a player with big talent who struggled on the way up the ranks. If I used any player from another organization, most fans would have to look them up.

I used Lars to show that development isnt guaranteed. That ETAs are earned and not a given. That anything can happen along the way from rookie ball to the bigs. And that you need to ride the waves on a player with big talent like Anderson. As I said before, one bad yr and Lars goes from 5 stars to 3 stars.

his lefty splits are terrible.

Wait, so Aceves didnt have to come through the NY farm system? Matsui is a debatable one, but in their defense, they are counting DiceK to be a homegrown player too

One of the sportswriters (see mlbtraderumors.com) continues to postulate that the Yankees will end up with Granderson. And its interesting how they postulate it. That by taking Magglio Ordonez' 18 mil 1 yr contract that Granderson could come on the cheap. Ordonez could be the DH with Granderson sliding into CF and Melky, Gardner or Ajax could slide into LF. Interesting, but I dont think it happens