rician blast

touche', Hate.

ok, so here are the Mets GIVING the game to the Yankees...well ok, in fairness it was Wagner giving it away. And up comes none other than the man who was the impetus for this thread. Excellent oppoertunity to be clutch. Didn't even have to face the Mets closer. What does he do? Feeble ground out to 2b. Damn, maybe those "clutch" stats mean something after all?

one my all-time favs in Boston. He was always "just about there"...ready to become a big time starter. didn't know of the tribulations he faced, it's a shame.

sounds gay.

Rick Wise Reggie Cleveland Roger Moret Jose Santiago Oil Can Boyd

sounds like a stalker.

personally, I don't care if he's clutch or not, as long as he isn't clutch against the Sox. (which I'm pretty sure the numbers will show he isn't).

nicely put and an important point (the $ he's being paid). With not much salary wrapped up in him, it does make moving in a different direction at SS viable assuming the FO has better long-term options in mind.

Crunch is right. I'm surprised he didn't give his well-known feelings on the Fenway...I think it was crunchy who says Fenway was built for 1912 a$$es and he'd gladly push the button that implodes the place. Am I accurate C-man or was it Mean? by the way, I'd gladly swing the wrecking ball myself...I've been there enough and have taken my kids there too...so I'm good.

while the latest article didn't say he wasn't 1 for something, what I was trying to show is that another source seemingly slices and dices things somewhat differently, and I'm not sure what exactly the differences are in terms of his criteria, but consistently these guys show Jetes to be less than stellar in the confines of "clutch situations". I apologize for confusing anyone with more stats, and while I saw article after article contradicting the theory that Jeter is clutch, I will, for now, not add any additional evidence....its pretty overwhelming at this point anyway.

Hate: what two game winners did this wipe away? I'm asking because I'd like to understand where this guys stats fall short...i.e. why they're missing the mark, if indeed they are. I will say this...the late and close thing is limited in some respects because a third inning 3 run hr, for exampe, that puts a team up 5-0 changes the complexion of a game and may result in the opponent throwing away the game to save arms...so early-in-game performances don't garner the recognition they should sometimes. However, the stats we're talking about here are what they are...game is on line, RISP, etc. and they measure what the player does in that situation. Thinking of things from a Sox fans perspective, ignoring numbers and going on gut, if it were 4-4, bottom of ninth, winning run on second and Jeter up, I'd feel a lot better than if it were Matsui up or even Sheffield...and I don't know what their "clutch" stats say, just know both scare me more than Jetes and certainly way more than ARod would.

From an unidentified website: The situations one would want to look at in trying to determine the Clutchness of a player would be the following: - Runners in scoring position - Runners in scoring position with two outs - Close and late The first two are self-explanatory. "Close and late" is defined as "results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck. In other words, how does someone do when the game is on the line? Here are Derek Jeter's post-season numbers in those situations from 2000-2003, combined... Runners in scoring position: .214/.421/.357 Runners in scoring position with two outs: .188/.381/.375 Close and late: .176/.263/.323 Retrosheet does not have Jeter's numbers close and late for his entire post-season career but what it does have is Jeter's numbers with men on base and with men in scoring position unlike ESPN.com. So for his entire 99-game post-season career (through 2003): Runners in scoring position: .210/.355/.306 Runners on base: .245/.345/.329 Fkn A, those are sweet numbers.

ORS is right on and hits on what the article in the original post in this thread stated regarding what fans remember and what they dismiss based upon who the player is. Crunch...nice.

good points....guys who genuinely CARE about there performance and their team and winning ae going to be revered...and the fans will remember their big plays much more. That's why we as Sox fans say we'd be glad to have him don the Sox uniform.

if you are referring to the fact that it is a hopeless endeavor on your part to convince me that what you see is right and the irrefutable numbers (1-62 for example) are wrong than yes I am a lost cause. So go ahead now and tell me how he steps it up in the clutch and how the numbers are just a smokescreen that somehow miss the mark.

Yes, that hit would be a "clutch" hit. And the stats show that he is NOT proficient at supplying that clutch hit, but is proficient at piling up impressive overall stats...just not in the context of "clutch".

If I recall it was....ummmm....maybe first in MLB?

I understand your logic, but the example you give above actually goes against your own argument. Why? Because the numbers show that despite his solid statistics (BA, OBP, etc.) he does not often come up with that game-winning hit you refer to and his performance with RISP, late, in close games, is not great. You all seem to take offense to ANY use of baseball's clutch measurements...as if it is an indictment of Jeter's overall value and worth. I can't make it any more plain. He's a tremendous player, and great team-player...he is what he is, and we'd love to have had him in Boston. But he hasn't proved himself to be anywhere near as "clutch" as you are lead to believe.

Pin: Its more a testament to the teams he has been a part of. We've said again and again we like Jeter, we respect him, and I wish he'd been in a Sox uni for the past 10 years...but the numbers clearly show he isn't as clutch as you are being lead to believe by the media.

Rivera has been the Yankees MVP year after year for a number of years now.

What kina definition does Wesbter's have for: on base percentage? RISP? LOB? For krist sake riv, its a fukin dictionary and has NOTHING to do with baseball? So Wesbter's definition of clutch means nothing here. Again, the numbers do not lie...Jeter is a ver, very good ballplayer...one we'd like to have in Boston...but he ain't the clutch performer the ball-washing NY media portrays him to be.

Mariano Rivera

again, totally missing the point...its not about E's or the Yanks not winning it all despite their ridiculous payroll. Its about the characterization of a player being clutch when he is clearly not. How you make the leap to Schilling and his foucs is pretty funny, though.

what's surprising is that no Yankee fan has responded to dispute the numbers and say "you have to see him play every day, blah, blah, blah...intangibles, blah, blah, blah"

proof that he and Riv's sexual pasts have never crossed.