a700hitter
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Everything posted by a700hitter
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He just didn't have the makeup to start. Bobby V saw it. The kid would lose focus after going through the order one time. It wasn't going to work. Ben didn't listen, stuck stubbornly to it it until Bobby V left him on the mound to be humiliated against Toronto to the extent that it ranked as the worst start by a Red Sox pitcher since the 1910s. Only then was Ben left with no choice but to send him down. The Blue Jays were pissed that Bobby V left him in so long, because he almost killed Encarnacion twice in one inning.
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I am not saying that the solution was to sign Ellsbury to a big contract. But he had to come up with a better replacement plan than he did over the next 2 seasons. As for Ellsbury, we would be 2 years into his 7 year contract, and we have done terribly in redeploying that money, so as of today we would be no worse off if we gave Ellsbury the big contract. We will have to wait 5 more seasons to know definitively if it was a mistake or not. As for Victorino and Buch being under contract, that is not an excuse. We had squeezed the last useful drop out of Victorino, and after 2023, he had trade value. He should have been traded. The problem is that he kept the guys that had nothing left. He gets paid to know what a player has left in the tank. Branch Rickey used to say that it was better to trade a player one season too soon than one season too late. Ben always wanted until guys were a total bust.
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And I say with conviction that you would be wrong. Francona had been tuned out by that team. Also, the first of Ben's terrible moves came that year in converting Bard to a starter and stubbornly sticking to it even though Bobby V openly questioned whether the kid could do it. Bobby V may be obnoxious and arrogant, but he is a good baseball guy, and when he says a kid can't do it, Ben should have listened. That 2012 move with Bard was a forwarning of many future ill-conceived moves that he stuck to stubbornly and foolishly ruining 2014 and 2015. It was the first of his many very stupid moves. People forget that one.
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Whom he replaced with a rookie that was completely out of his depth hitting under .200 in over 500 plate appearances and Grady Sizemore who may have been worse. The dismantling process was over 2 seasons. The mistakes in 2013 were relying on too many untested rookies in too many key positions, having a horrible replacement plan for one of the most important members of the 2013 team (Ellsbury), and keeping the guys who were breaking down at a rapid pace -- Victorino, Buchholz, and he signed Napoli for 2 completely useless seasons.
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Ben being honest as usual.
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yes, that is the art of being a good GM. -
2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread
a700hitter replied to a700hitter's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
Some people do it professionally. -
2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread
a700hitter replied to a700hitter's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
I have known a few people who nicely supplement their incomes betting on sports. -
If the alternative after Hanley is equally as expensive and equally a failure for the next 3 seasons, the answer is yes.
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Also, this is a misinterpretation of what I am saying, so it is not straightforward. I said that Ben made a series of bad moves after 2013 dismantling and ruining that team. He kept the wrong guys, let the wrong guys walk and brought in the wrong replacements. Does that mean that it was a mistake to let Ellsbury go? I wouldn't conclude that yet, but surely his effort to restock the OF has been an abject failure. In 2015, I would take Ellsbury having an injured off year over 2015 Hanley without a doubt. That does not mean that I am saying that we should have paid him $142 million, but in the first 2 years after letting him walk the FO really s*** the bed with their alternatives, and they haven't saved a lot of money in the process.
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Two last place finishes since Ellsbury left. I am leading.;)
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Ben got shot, and at least he knows that he deserved it. He has integrity and is a good guy who can walk and chew gum at the same time, but he screwed up big time. He was probably almost family with ownership as he had been with the organization since his early 20's. They have him every opportunity to succeed. It must have been like firing a son. It had to be done. I'll say it over and over. His record of failure is unprecedented in sports for a high payroll team and unprecedented since pre-Yawkey years for the Red Sox (when they were probably pulling guys out of bars to play).
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Well, I will hold you to that.
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Here is the if this happened we would be screaming argument. Do people ever get tired of this poor and ineffective debating technique? Let me answer very straightforward. I would much rather pencil 2015 Ellsbury into our lineup than 2015 Hanley. Hanley has a .727 OPS and has cost us a ton of runs in the field.
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They need to come to the realization that this is a failed experiment. No amount of work will turn this around. I applaud his effort for trying, but I still can't believe the negligence of signing him for 4 years and assuming that he could make the transition. Awful decision making.
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More sugar please.
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Hard throwing lefty with a 2 IQ point head. We should light him up.
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He will play a big part on that team before the season ends. Also, Hanley has been the OF replacement and he has been a far far worse investment. Did I say far worse? Lol!
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Blake will be a good major league hitter, maybe even very good. I don't think that he projects as elite, offensively or defensively. Vasquez, if healthy, is already an elite defender. I am always in the camp of keeping the elite talent. If Swihart could play third base, that would be great. We could dump Fatass and dumbass.
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It wasn't an either/or choice. We could have had both in our OF. I'd much rather have that than Betts and Hanley. Hanley has been a complete waste of money and he will continue to be so, because he is not and will not become an adequate OFer. Imagine the havoc that Ellsbury and Betts would cause for the opponents defenses.
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2013 was not a fluke. What was a fluke was that Ben had no idea how to build on 2013. He kept and resigned the portions of that team that crumbled over the next 2 years -- Victorino, Napoli, and Buchholz. And he let the wrong parts of the foundation walk or he traded them --Lester, Ellsbury, Lackey
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Any plan that includes finishing last in the two years following a championship while spending more than almost any team in baseball is not a plan that anyone would want.
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This is just intellectually dishonest. If you can throw out 2012, then you have no leg to stand on when others want to throw out 2013. Your arguments follow the same pattern. Everything good that happened was Ben's brilliant creation and everything bad that happened was not his fault -- Valentine, Luchinno, reactive fans, etc etc. His record is his record. He is accountable and does not shrink from it. What I find humorous is that you don't want to hold him accountable for any of the failures that happened on his watch, but you are ready to give him credit for successes after he is gone. Too funny.
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No there isn't anectodal evidence. There is only internet rumor.
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The Marlins case was a travesty, but easy to understand. It wasn't a failure of management. They had spent a ton of money and won a championship. They didn't make any money so they decided to sell off all of their valuable assets and drove their payroll to negligible level. Not surprisingly, they finished last. The Red Sox have maintained one of the highest payrolls throughout this period and still finished last 3 times. That is what highlights the failure of management is how they squandered their assets and resources. This record of futility is unprecedented in sports. No professional sports team with one of the highest payrolls has finished last in 3 out of 4 years. That cannot be sugar coated. That cannot be excused or explained away by spinning and just fabricating facts. That is not a bridge year. That is not building for the future. It is just abject failure.
