a700hitter

I know don't take your remarks as personal. I was just being snide back. I felt bad for papelbon because our idiot manager put him in an impossible situation and he ended up using him for two innings anyway. It was a collosal blunder by Tito and we all knew it as we were watching it. This was not 20--20 hindsight criticism. He compounded his initial mistake of bringing in Timlin to start the 8th by bringing in Javy Lopez with 2 on.

What does that mean that it's the nature of the business? Giving up your stars and reliable players and replacing them with inferior ones? Is that what you mean?

They got the fans all excited when they told us their goal was to win several titles, but they are going about it in a very odd way.

He can't win all the games by himself. He couldn't do it in 1999 when he was at his peak. I don't care about the Met and whether they get to the WS, but it will hurt watching Petey perform on a big stage for someone else.

That's total unfounded speculation on your part about what his performance would be if he were in the AL East. When he was in the AL East even after his injury he was winning games at a .700 clip. Let's see how badly the Hall of Famer is toasted when the spotlight is on him in October, and the Red Sox have to back up a truck to load on the garbage from their pitching staff.

Me too-- no Lugo.

He created the holes. We need two starter. Pedro is in NY and Lowe is in LA. Both teams are heading for the playoffs. By letting Damon walk, he was forced to use his most valuable prospect and trading chip, Marte to get an inferior Crisp. If he kept Damon, he could have used marte to get some high quality bullpen help.

You are entitled to rant and you are right. The Yankees kept the key components of their wiining teams together as long as possible, and they still have Jeter and Mo. The WhiteSox re-signed Garland and Konerko. They didn't low ball them the way our FO lowballed our stars. They never even made an offer to Lowe. The White Sox kept their core together and built on it with Thome. Our Fo took a different path, and the results are undeniable.

When some team breaks -- I mean ties- the Yankee record for the biggest post-season choke, then 2004 is over, but until then it lives on like Dimaggio's winning streak. That must have been some dark 4 days and night for you. What a slow torturous death for a team. Be proud of your unbreakable record.

Missed it by that much.

Bandwagon fan

I've go no beef with TalkSox members unless they call me bandwagon or tell me to root for the Skankees.

Just because it is a fact doesn't mean that it isn't an excuse. If it wasn't a fact, it would be a lie in addition to being an excuse. It's an excuse and it's the same one we heard when Haywood Sullivan and Buddy Leroux owned the team and let Fisk walk away and they gave away Freddie Lynn and Rick Burleson. It's the same excuse used by the Yawkey trust. It may be a fact, but it's still an excuse.

I have a wife that might get pissed if I took a girlfriend. My two kids are in college and they are top students at excellent universities. Thank you very much for your interest in my life. I guess you guys are okay with the Yankees eating our lunch year after year. I remember a time after Steinbrenner was the owner when we ate their lunch more often than they ate ours, but that all ended in 1996. In the late 60's, early 70's and 80's the Red Sox had less financial resources than the Yankees, but the owners figured out a way. That all earned in 1996, and we are told that we can't compete with the Yankees finances. I'm sorry, buty it's an excuse. If you guys are okay with the Yankees taking the Division every year, good for you. It doesn't sit well with me. You might have a different perspective on the issue if you had to live among Yankee fans.

Especially if you can get Miner.

What the hell was wrong with this site today? I was blocked for a good 3 hours.

I'm not going to rehash everything in your post, but yeah you are right that I am pissed that we are sucking. I thought we finally turned a corner in 2004 and that we would be beating up on the Yankees for a while and competing for World Championships. I thought new ownership was serious about making that happen. We are not beating the Yankees and we've got no chance at a World Championship. Most of all, I don't like the excuses that I am hearing about finances and budget and luxury taxes and not having the unlimited budget of the Yankees. Pardon me, but these are the same excuses that prior ownership used. I've heard that they can't react to what the Yankees are doing because they are not the only competition. That excuse makes me furious. Does that mean that we will concede the AL East every year except when we catch lightning in a bottle and a few of the kids turn out to be stars? I'm sorry, but that's BS. The Yankees are our competition so what they do directly impacts our team's chances. Last I looked we were in the AL East, not the NL West or AL West. When this ownership bought this team, they knew that it was in the AL East. They are in with the Yankees. This is the big boys division, so they should stop whining about budgets and finances and put out a team that will finally beat the Yankees. That should be their goal. It's ridiculous for us to sit here and think that the Yankees are a bottomless pit of money. They are running a business too, and the Boss is not the only owner. Their owners like making money too. Our fan base is every bit as big and monied as the Yankees fan base. It's up to the owners to figure out how to transform that into Yankee type profits. That's their job, and I frankly am not interested in how they accomplish it. I am only interested in the team they put on the field. SO, please FO stop whining about your budget and your finances. If you can't make the money the Yankees do, it's not because of a lack of fan support. I realize that they draw about a million more fans but that doesn't come close to making up for difference in payrolls. Yankee management makes money in ways unrelated to gate receipts. It's your job to figure out how to do that, and we don't care about the details, but stop using finances and budget as an excuse why you can't do what the Yankees do. You really sound like the many previous generations of incompetent owners and management. I though you were better than them. We expected more from you.

Talk to me after October, becuase that's why they are resting him. They have that luxury, because they are a lock for the post season. BTW: He has a .692 winning % since leaving us. He's slipping, but he's still great. He'd be our #2 withou question.

You mean 39 years of devoted fandom. You mean those bandwagon fans that go to Ft myers every year and travel to see the team in Philly, Miami, Baltimore, Boston and NY and spend thousands of dollars doing it. Fans that stayed with the team through the Haywood Sullivan- Buddy Leroux days and the Butch Hobson Crack-pipe years. If that's the type of bandwagon fan you are talking about, then I think you are more than a bit ridiculous. I am part of the fan base that kept this team going in the lean years, so how dare you, you little fan boy ball washer. As it pertains to me, I have heard enough from you telling me to root for the Yankees or calling me a bandwagon fan. When you have been a fan for 39 years from a little boy to a time when I have adult children maybe you can address me on an equal footing, but until then you have no right so cut the crap. Be more creative in countering my arguments or STFU. Telling me to root for the Yankees or calling me bandwagon is no longer an option. Okay.

It's a monetary message. That's what gets through. When a company's product is inferior people stop buying it. The company either gets the message or they lose profits and sometimes their business. That's the message.

Here is my concession to the Ball washers, the Front Office apologists among us. I know that I aggravate the hell out of you, but I bear no ill will against you guys. You live and die with the team like I do. I feel your pain. Here is why it is hard to be you. First off, you are wrong. The FO has made a series of ill-conceived moves since 2004 that have dismantled a champion and fiercely competitive team. Unfortunately for you, if you are wrong in your philosophy, it means that your favorite team will be a loser. If I am wrong about criticizing the FO, that means our favorite team is a winner. I'll admit that it is much easier to be wrong and admit that you were wrong when your team is winning. Losing and being wrong is like a double dose of bad tasting medicine. As a critic of the FO, I have the added advantage of being able to defend my position even if the Sox go to the playoffs. Anything short of a World Series victory leaves me the opportunity to argue that the team would have been better had it not been for the mismanagement by the FO. It's not a level playing field. That's my concession to you ball washers. Unlike you guys, I can say good luck to you and I really hope you are right, because it will mean that the team will win. That being said, this year is not even a close call. The dismantling of the Championship formula (notice I did not say team, because I have never advocated keeping that roster intact) is almost complete. All the FO needs to do is trade Manny and we will be finished as a WS contender for a minimum of 5 years. Who knows what the maximum will be. Edit: BTW being critical of the FO and acknowledging that the Yankee FO has done a better job, does not mean that I should be a Yankee fan. You guys really need to start understanding that there is no logic in that argument. We compete with the Yankees. They keep beating us. Maybe they are doing something right and our management is doing something wrong. Maybe, just maybe, we should consider the possibility. I, for one, thought we had turned a corner in 2004 and that new ownership with a new philosophy was going to keep the pressure up on the Yanks and we would run off a string of AL East flags and championships. Apparently, I was wrong. What we got is more second fiddle status that we had under prior ownership and excuses. The only way this ownership is better is they have figured out a way to fill the house every night.

More people should do the same and send management a message.

Thank god they were not successful in their attempt, because that would have accelerated our move to being a s***** team. Manny has been a major piece of the formula that has made this team successful. They got rid of one Hall of Famer who would still be our #2 pitcher on this staff. They let the best CF-leadoff hitter go to the Yankees and he is getting better. Dumping manny would have made this into a third world team. Manny, Pedro and Damons don't grow in the minors like a bumper crop, and they are rarely even found oun the FA shelf. We had them. The FO let two of them get away. It could be 10 years before we see replacements that are as good as these guys. IMO we'll never see another Pedro.

Compete for what 3rd place in the wild card race. Clearly this team didn't have good pitching from the beginning. Clearly, the bullpen was stocked with bums from the first day of ST. That's what forced Papelbon to the Pen. While Beckett has been a disappointment, without him we'd have to replace his 13 wins. That would leave us in a class with Tampa. Partience by the fans who pay the highest ticket prices in baseball? That's not even warranted to ask for that. The other 5 highest payroll teams are making solid playoff runs and if the two LA teams make it, then 5 of the highest 6 payroll teams will be in the playoffs. The #2 team will be at home. When the Mets had the 2nd highest payroll and didn't make the playoffs, Phillips head rolled. Duke's head rolled.

This team has not been beating good teams all year long, so it is no surprise that when it got a little banged up that it had trouble with the bad teams. The answer is yes it is the FO's fault. They put this sorry group together. No one else did. They have to be held accountable.