a700hitter

I think you underestimate the clout that the Red Sox organization has. The Sox are much closer to the Yankees stature than the Royals or Marlins are to the Red Sox. I didn't say that the technique would work for everyone. In fact, my post addressed only the Yankees use of the technique, not the Red Sox and certainly not the Royals or Marlins. I discussed how the Yankees have been effectively employing this technique to keep the cost from spiraling too wildly upward. I do think that the Red Sox could effectively use this technique at times. You mention Teixeira as an example, but apparently from the information out there, the Red Sox were willing to go higher, but walked away before giving the final offer. What they did really was really confounding to me. (I realize that a lot of what is in the press has been distorted along the way, so it's hard to know the true facts). The Sox made an offer. Tex countered. Sox walked away and declared negotiations over in the press. Yet, in stories that came out later, they were willing to increase their offer. If you are going to employ the tactic of making the best and final offer that has to be accepted on the spot, then make the final offer. Don't expect that you will be able to get back to the table with the new offer. Competing with the Yankees for players is challenging, and overall, the FO does a good job. Good negotiation skills and techniques can help close the gap. I think at times they are penny wise and pound foolish. They'll miss out on a good player like Abreu because they wanted the Phillies to eat $2 or 3 million more than the Phillies wanted to, but then they throw $39 million at a useless dog like Lugo and they misjudge the market for Dice K by paying more than 25% more than any other team was willing to bid. The FO is a smart bunch. I think they are good at assessing and learning from there mistakes. While some of us give them a free pass when they screw up, I think they are quite a bit more self critical.

:lol:We have to do something to cope with this horrendous circumstance, especially since we have a big hill to climb. I'm not confident that we will be able to land the pieces we need to compete. They are certainly not available on the FA market.

I recognize that, but losing a guy as important as Teixeira to the Yankees for less money as Example has posted, leaves me shaking my head. That shouldn't happen. When you have the opportunity to close the deal before the Yanks enter the picture, you shouldn't walk away without making your final offer, because you will probably not get another chance.

Over his career he has sucked against the Yankees. He is also a forfeit in post season starts. It's time to move him to the TV Booth.

I always mean what I say, unless I am clearly being sarcastic or joking. You are assuming that my criticism of the FO handling of the Teixeira or the Abreu negotiations is a condemnation of the FO. It is not. People like to see things in black and white. You like to view me as anti-FO. That is far from the truth. While I will criticize them, I have said over and over again that IMO this FO is doing a very good job overall. They do a lot of things very well. However, I don't think they do very well in some negotiations. Maybe they need to bring someone in to join the FO team with a different skill set-- a negotiator. This FO knows its business and they make very sound decisions, but IMO they have had their lunch eaten by the Yankees a couple of times. That's my opinion. That being said, I am serious that I don't think the FO will make decisions based on public opinion. I think Boras is smart enough to know that. I also think that angering the Red Sox brass by lying is not the best way to deal with them, regardless of whether the Sox need a left fielder. I just don't see how stating a known lie would be in Boras' interest. That's why I believe his statement.

He had a better year. It was not just that his errors were down, and you are correct that the decrease in errors was attributable to Teixeira. Jeter also was getting to more balls up the middle.

So, if the Yankees outbid us, ... not the FO's fault, and if we outbid the Yankees but the player signs with the Yankees, ... not the FO's fault. So much for accountability.

The Red Sox should stop pursuing players that don't fit into their plans. Sounds like a big waste of everyones time.

If it is a lie or gross exaggeration, the Red Sox could plant a story refuting Boras statement by simply making a phone call. I have more regard for the Red Sox FO than to think they would throw out sound business judgment to bow to the court of public opinion.

Drew was still under contract, and my recollection is that the Sox (in the Abreu negotiation) also had not made their final offer when they walked away from the table. That's just a bad way to negotiate when your chief rival has the same need as you.

That offer was made by the Red Sox. So, it wasn't the money? Make up your mind. Was it the money or wasn't it? If it wasn't the money, I am leaning more towards it being a really bad sales job by the FO.

Wow, the FO must really be stupid if Boras has to keep reminding them of how he screwed them over. If they are that stupid, no amount of leverage would work.

Nonresponsive.

No one has yet stated how a lie known to the FO could help Boras with regard to negotiating with Boston.

How could deliberately tweaking your negotiating opponent about a past back-stabbing help him in future negotiations. Whether or not he is a necessary evil, that would just be bad business. Boras is not someone who regularly shoots himself in the foot.

Both Boras and the FO know what that offer was and whether or not it was made in good faith. If the offer was outlandish, why bring it up and rub John Henry's face in it at this time of year. How would that benefit him?

To argue otherwise is just sour grapes. I will not engage in it. I hate the Yankees down deep in my bones, but they got it done this season. They were clearly the better team, and there was nothing illegitimate about it.

I'm not asking you to agree with me. We have both stated our opinions and neither one of us knows what occurred during the negotiations, so neither of us can claim that our opinion is correct. Was any reliable FO personnel quoted? If not, neither of us knows what either side asked for or offered. If the Red Sox were willing to offer more than $20m AAV, then they should have made that offer before they left the room. If they were willing to offer more but didn't, it makes me more inclined to think that they botched things. When you have exclusive access, you don't give that up and walk away when you have not made your final offer. You can't depend on scum like Boras to get back to you if the guy gets another offer. He got another offer, and the Sox were never asked to counter. The Yankees closed. I don't care about it, because it's not my business, but I understand it and can debate it. I have not argued in this thread that they should have blown away the market to get Tex, so I don't know why you arguing about value. Neither of us knows what was offered or proposed, so how can you analyze value here? You are way off topic with the value argument. I never said that. They wanted and needed Abreu at the time, otherwise why were they pursuing him. They left the table and the Yankees landed a pretty good player and the Sox had trash in RF for the remainder of the 2006 season. They made up for that mistake with $70 million and Drew. That doesn't mean that they didn't blow the Abreu negotiation. Subsequent successes don't erase past failures. Hopefully, their successes are in part due to learning from past mistakes.

People have a knee-jerk reaction to Boras- that he is a scum-sucking liar who cannot be trusted. If I were sitting on the opposite end the table negotiating with him, I wouldn't trust a word out of his mouth. But here's the thing with his latest statement, the Red Sox FO knows if it is a lie or not, because they were there. Now, although Boras is scum, he's not an idiot. The Red Sox are one of the top organizations in sports and we have signed many of his clients. Don't you think he wants the Red Sox to keep bidding on and signing his clients? What would he have to gain by telling such a lie? Nothing. He'd just be pissing off a big fish. Would that make any sense at all?