a700hitter

It doesn't look like there is much hope for Jenks. It doesn't look like Cook or Ohlendorf will hit the ground running.

A SS with over 2,400 hits and almost 600 SBs is not an archetype for a "poor offensive player that plays transcendent defense." There were plenty of other slick fielding SS's with long careers that contributed far less offensively than Ozzie Smith, eg. Bud Harrelson, Mark Belanger, and Larry Bowa. Ozzie became a very effective offensive player. He was not a poor offensive player. He was the archetype slap hitter, but he did a lot of good things on the offensive side.

Feel free to go back and check my prognostications about these guys. When I saw Bard in Spring Training 2009, I reported that he was doing nothing but throw strikes and that he had seemed to tame his wildness. I also stated that i expected him to make it to Fenway that year. Ellsbury, I liked him from day 1. In his second AB that I watched, he hit a triple and it was pretty exciting. I was very high on his skill set.

My participation in the Iglesias discussion has consisted of me stating an opinion that Bobby V will give him every opportunity to win the job and that he will not have to hit much to win the job. He gave the Mets starting SS job to a light hitting slick fielding SS in Rey Ordonez. I was not taking the position that he wasn't ready. However, the justification by people supporting Iglesias to be the SS that he fields like Ozzie Smith is just stupid. It's not an obfuscation of any argument. I am not making any argument for or against the kid. It's a comment on a stupid justification for the kid's case, not a strawman. Saying that he fields like Ozzie Smith is like saying "he's Ozzie", because ozzie was known for his D, not his offense. I don't mind arguing with you about things, but if you are going to accuse me of using certain debating techniques, I'd like to know what I am arguing about. You have apparently placed me on one side of this argument without my participation on that side of the argument. Saying that people are being ridiculous for comparing him to Ozzie Smith is not a straw man, because I have not taken a position on the kid other than he will get his chance from Bobby V.

What argument am I making or refuting other than to say it is ridiculous to compare minor league kids to Ozzie Smith or Ted Williams. That's not a straw man. Do we have a chubby kid in the system? Maybe we could liken him to Babe Ruth. Edit: Seriously, I think if I posted that today is Monday, you would start your reply with: "that's always the way it is with you, a700":lol:

I'd still like to know what argument I am refuting with this so-called strawman. I am not saying, "who me?" I am saying I don't understand what you are saying. What am I trying to refute?

Who cares about Theo. He's gone. He left our roster and payroll with little or no flexibility for 2012. We had to get rid of our SS for payroll reasons. Theo's last chapter with the Sox will not be written until his last group of prospects develop into whatever they are going to develop into. He'll get to prove himself in Chicago. He has plenty of resources and he'll get to build that team fm the ground up, because they have nothing at the major league roster. When he came to Boston, he came to a team stocked with stars. In 3 years, we'll see how good he really is.

The hyperbole is ridiculous. They jump to comparing him to the greatest fielding SS of all time. I'll do cartwheels if he is as good as Elvis Andrus.

I don't remember that at all. If they did, it was moronic. Even after Ells breakout season it would still be moronic to make that comparison.

What am I refuting? You are going overboard here to prove what point?

The Abreu deal was a pure salary dump. The Yankees gave up no prospects of any note. They got Abreu, because they agreed to take his full salary. The Sox were quibbling over getting the Phils to eat some salary.

I'm not using any strawman. Stop being so condescending. I have said early on, way before today's discussion that Bobby V will give this kid every opportunity to play everyday, because that's what he did with Rey Ordonez. I just think comparisons to Ozzie Smith are way premature and plain dumb. Like I said earlier, that would be like comparing a minor league hitter to Ted Williams. I'd be happy if he fields as well as Rey Ordonez. How am I employing the use of a strawman in any argument? If you are going to make your post about me, be accurate.:harhar:

Come on guys, get it in check. Comparing a minor league SS to Ozzie Smith would be like comparing a minor league hitter to Ted Williams. It's incredible hyperbole. There is no reason for the name-calling.

I really don't think we should be comparing any minor leaguer to Ozzie Smith. Ozzie was the best ever. It's just crazy to be mentioning this kid in the same sentence as Ozzie.

If you remember, after Theo blew the negotiations with the Phillies for Abreu and the Yankees swooped in and ate his lunch, we were treated to planted stories about how much Abreu would have cost with the Luxury Tax etc. They put all the excuses out there and the people drank the Kool Aid. Then Abreu helped destroy the Sox in the 5 game series at Fenway to kick off August, knocking us from 1st place. Jason "the Ultimate Loser" Johnson started the first game of the double header at the start of that series. It was sickening. The lies about losing out on Abreu were obvious to me from the start. They should have been obvious to everyone else when the FO ponied up $70 million that winter for Drew.

We would have been better off if we had picked up Abreu in 2006 instead of the Yankees. He went to the post everyday and produced, not to mention that he pummeled our pitchers at Fenway. Our guys just could not get him out in key situations. He always seemed to be able to smack the ball of the Monster.

Good for him. Although I think Beckett dogged it last year and contributed to the slothful attitude of the pitchers. he doesn't have to answer to the media about it. It should stay in house. He helped Tito lose his job in disgrace and it greased the skids for Theo to leave his beloved Sox. There is a new sheriff in town. He'll have to deal with him.