SCM33

Im glad he said something. This team has seriously sucked ass ever since that last road trip (and most of the second half). Timlin has earned the right to open his mouth, and to be accurate....he doesnt do it often. Something must really be bothering him for him to say something. Its obvious the team has been sleepwalking lately and it is now VERY CLEAR how important a .240 hitting catcher making a cool 10 mil with a C on his chest really is. I seriously dont think I will ever doubt Variteks abilities again after this injury. He is the on field coach/leader/voice/anything. This team needs to just f***in wake up.....because I still believe there is too much talent on the team to just go in the tank. Weve got hitters, sluggers, a little speed, bat control, on-base skills, gold gloves, 2 talented arms in the front of the rotation, a solid boomer (he appears to be regaining his old form), a solid veteran in Wake when hes back, a bullpen dog in timlin, a few fireballing youngsters, and a solid anchor at the end of the rotation. Weve also got one of the best utility guys in baseball (Cora) and a solid backup OF (Kapler) and Belli who is as good as they come in terms of backup receivers. All this and the addition of veteran bats off the bench from the right side (Lopez),left side (Hinske) and a solid glove at 1B to spell youk (Pena) who probably needs a few days off. The talent is here, they just need to f***in wake up. Im glad Timlin said something.

I agree with SCHILLINGISNAT. It can be very frustrating watching a guy who clearly possesses immense talent which has not been harnessed.

48 hits in 45 innings isnt drop dead awful, he has a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio, and averaging a K/9inn. All I was saying is that for as bad as he has been crucified, he isnt that awful. Comparing his WHIP and OBA to others. Seanez 1.54 .346 MDC 1.47, .344 Hansen 1.50, .355 Tavarez 1.58, .376 So, after comparing more valuable stats, even though this was never my point anyway.....we see that Seanez is actually pretty comparable.

ATTN: KILO Read the rest of my post. Its clearly not just on the basis of ERA, I just found that to be interesting stat.

I still don't think hes been all that terrible this year. I mean, hes not a setup man no, but I can actually stomach watching him pitch over Tavarez and some of the other bums. Before tonights game, he actually had the third best ERA on the team (3.89). Not that bad for someone who gets crucified for, granted the ERA doesnt tell the whole story....but if you look at his overall numbers....they arent exactly awul.

Yeah.....now its at least something Id be willing to talk about....thanks for changing it.

Come on.... HAHA...just noticed you changed the thread title.....yeah, he is struggling...........but he is in no way comparable to Clement.

The staff has been pretty bad since Tek has been out. I just did a quick search on it.... Since July31st, when he was injured..... August 1 vs CLE L 3-6 2 vs CLE W 6-5 3 vs CLE L 6-7 4 @ TB W 3-2 5 @ TB L 5-8 6 @ TB L 6-7 7 No Game 8 @ KC L 4-6 9 @ KC L 4-5 10 @ KC L 4-5 11 vs BAL W 9-2 12 vs BAL W 8-7 13 vs BAL W 11-9 Thats 69 runs in 12 games....or 5.75 per game average for a 5-7 record.

Ive been saying since day1, and seabeachfred has disagreed with me since day 1. I think we just getting a taste of how good he is. He is still very undisciplined swinging at some awful pitches, but when he gets something he can handle watch out. His talent is just getting tapped. BTW....has anyone noticed that he is playing a much better RF?? Hes getting much better jumps and lets not forget the throw he made the other day.

Actually, I was agreeing with you. But I also added that if he becomes available, or STL is willing to dump and eat...he may be a nice low risk move (assuming they eat some). Back to thread relevance...... WMP is a f***in monster.

Yeah, they just improved themselves yesterday when David Wells re-appeared into his old self. If he is his old self then its just as good as a trade, if not better since we gave up nothing to get him. It was very encouraging watching him do well, even in his last start he was good for 4 innings. He is getting his arm strength back. Last night was essentially a final spring training tune-up (his fourth start).

Based on this season, no. He has been very consistent over his career though. His mechanics must be out of whack or something. You don't go from that good for that long to really bad overnight. Hes also relatively young. He was a front of the rotation type guy. Any reports of him losing velocity?

Schmidt in Boston would be nice, probably a pipe dream. Contreras will be resigned I am assuming. Radke will also resign, he has stated he wants to stay in MIN. Smoltz will most likely go to DET or stay put if ATL wants him. Ortiz....no thanks. Meche is interesting. Mulder is someone i might consider if he is cheap and swallows his pride. Pettite is someone who has always intrugued me, he is a winner. Redman...no thanks Lilly...no thanks, those walks would kill him in FEN, not to mention he gives up about a hit per inning. 1 hit per, plus a walk every two would kill him.

suicidal watch? what a way to make a welcome! ahhhhh welcome to talksox?

Actually, I do happen to believe Tek calls a great game. I also believe he is the reason for development of MDC, Paps, Hansen and Lester. The staff has struggled, but please remember the arms he is dealing with, I would say hes gotten the most out of a pretty sad bunch. Heres why: Schilling has pitched well Beckett has done alright and is still developing in the AL Clement is a frigin head case Wells was hurt all year Johnson was a bum before he even came here Snyder is a bum Lester is a rookie Paps is essentially a rookie MDC is a rookie Hansen is a rookie Tavarez is a bum Seanez has been inconsistent Foulke is a bum for 2 years now, hurt or not Timlin is 40 years old Gabbard is a rookie Pauley is a rookie Van Buren is essentially a rookie Wakefield doesn't factor with Tek If you ask me hes done a pretty good job with that list. Ill tell you what, its not his fault that they arent a dominating pitching staff, if anything he has made that sorry list better.

Ahhh....yeah its pretty much over. They arent good enough to win anything this year, and they wont be next year either. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Im not putting them down, I just dont expect anything from them this year.....they were a nice little surprise early on, but many of the players who were playing so well have fallen back to earth. The injury of Varitek has apparently sealed the deal. Who knew a .240 hitting catcher meant so much to the team. I guess I still take him for granted.

Hey so yeah, ummmmm rician blast, remember when you gave me a hard time for blasting mr crunchy? Well after this load of crap, do you kinda see why I did it? I am honestly speachless after that ********. He still just doesn't get it, and after that post....he never will.

Trot Nixons days in Boston are over. Arroyo or not, This team was not going to win anything this year. Again, Arroyo does not make this team a World Series contender. Who the hell cares we traded away an average pitcher. Heres the spoiler for next year. Before you get all hyped up over the offseason, they are not going to win the World Series next year either, and they arent trying to. No FA pitcher on the market makes them WS contenders. Heres a spoiler for 2 years from now....Schilling will be gone, so will Wake....and they wont be competing for a WS then either. I dont understand why Sox fans can't just understand what they are doing. They were not going to keep Arroyo, bc they knew they werent going to seriously compete. Arroyo had more value as a trading chip than a SP. Theo knew they didnt really have a chance with the current club, he knows this years FA SP crop is weak. He is gunna fill and plug holes until all of our young talent is ready, THEN he will pull the trigger on a move that SIGNIFICANTLY helps the club and makes them WS contenders a few years from now. So for you fans out there who are unhappy with the team and how its going, Id say you have to get used to it for a few more years, because Theo isn't going anywhere and I believe the FO believes in his plan.

Crespo man......its obvious he has no clue what moneyball is. He lives in spoiled RedSox nation where we have a 100+ payroll and cant understand that other teams have to find other ways of remaining successful with budgets under 50 million dollars. In every post hes made regarding moneyball hes seemed to understand the basics, but not comprehend the fact that these teams just dont have the money to make a catastrophic mistake. If Oakland had Foulke now, theyd be screwed with his 9 million dollar salary. If they had a Clement, theyd be screwed. They cant afford to make mistakes in evaluating talent, which is why I think it is incredible that they have been this good, for this long after losing star player year after year and competing with teams with much bigger payrolls. He just doesnt get it, and if he does...he doesnt appreciate the incredible job they do over there.

Yeah, I sent you a PM with an apology, not sure if you got it. I just get frustrated with some people on here, and sometimes rant not caring about what I actually say or to who I say it to. Like Yezir said, back to subject.

Agree 100%. Ive been one of Penas biggest supporters, and just like Ive said before, I would make the deal again, twice on Sunday. This team was not built to win this year, they just happened to exceed expectations for the first half of the season. I can tell you what though...like I said before, Bronson Arroyo doesn't change the outcome much had he stayed in Boston. Anyone who believes that Bronson Arroyo makes this team a World Series contender needs a reality check. The World Series champion is not coming from the AL east. Bronson Arroyo doesn't make the difference. The Yankees are not winning the World Series this year. Neither team will pitch enough to keep up with Detroit, or Chicago. God forbidt when Buerhle and the rest of the CHI-town staff figure it out again, because they aren't as bad as theyve shown this year.. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I dont care where Bronson Arroyo is slotted in your starting staff, Detroit and Chicago (yes even this years staff) has someone better. This would have been Arroyos third season here, which meant a third season of seeing his same junk pitches, which by the way were becoming less and less effective not to mention the fact that against a team like the Yankees, who are lefty dominated...he would have been murdered. Bronson Arroyo would maybe.....MAYBE get us to the playoffs, but who the f*** cares when we are bounced out in the first round? What the f*** does it matter when you are just succumbing to the inevitable? This team today, Arroyo or not does not match up against the best teams in baseball, and that is because is was never meant to. The teams of next season, and following seasons at least give us promise. Do you think Detroit thought they would be competing with the best teams in baseball and have the best record 3 years removed from starting the seaon 0-18 or something crazy like that? Do you think that Detroit thought that they would get these performances from Bonderman and Maroth (injured) who led baseball in losses at young ages? Do you think they would be getting bullpen outings like this from Rodney who also took his lumps? or from Robertson who took his lumps last season? What about Zemaya? The answer is that they had hope, and talented young arms...something we have and decided not to give away. Detroit created a blueprint for success. The only difference is that we are putting young arms in a position to have modest success in a playoff run which can only help their chances of future success and give them a faster learning curve than those arms in Detroit had. If we were Detroit a few years back, I guarentee this board would read the same, if not worse. We would all be clamoring for the trades of Maroth, Bonderman and others to achieve success now. That is because Boston fans are never satisfied and have adopted a win now attitude, much like the Yankees. The truth is however, NewYork built their franchise of the 90's on their own home grown talent, which brought the market back to NY so they were able to generate their huge revenue and gave them incentive to add other big names to their already home grown talent pool. New York has gotten away from that over the years, and I dont want Boston to make the same mistakes that NY made. Keep the talent, build a franchise....because over the next few years I think we will see NY continuing to make the playoffs, but not win anything until they themselves decide the farm is more important, much like we are doing in Boston. Detroit is the next franchise and much like ATL, they are building it around the pitching staff...which is what Boston is trying to do. Keep the faith, and please have a little more patience. Try to enjoy the competitive team we have right now, but dont lose sight on the future. There is no shame in rooting for a team 2 games back in a year that is considered a youth movement season. Before commenting, please read the WHOLE post, and try to understand where I am coming from. -Sweet Chin Music33

I almost puked reading this thread. I suggest finding a girlfriend. Who brags about how much of a geek they are anyway?

Good post. I apologize for not completely understanding the motives behind your posts. Maybe I am a little too pro-Theo. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I do not always agree with the FO either, sometimes I scratch my head at s*** they do, but I don't feel this season is their fault. I think they had a plan going in to the season and they stuck to their guns regardless if they were in first place or third. I like you grew very frustrated they didnt acquire anyone during the deadline, but it appeared besides Oswalt there wasn't many quality people to bring in here. Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make. So I apologize for not seeing where you come from, as long as you also see where I come from.

Nobody can deny Harris's speed, but im not so sure he is a basestealer. He would be on the roster as a pinch runner (not to steal bases, just for speed alone), and a emergency position player. Speed does not always equal SB's. Donnie Sadler was probably the fastest man in baseball at one time but just could not put it together to steal bases. Jeff Bagwell is one of the greatest baserunners of all time and he is not considered a burner.

A simple search shows that: Seanez signing thread: http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5012&highlight=Rudy+Seanez Julian Tavarez signing thread: http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5186&highlight=sign+Julian+Tavarez Both of which have track records. It appears that actually, a lot of people were happy with the signings if you do a little reading. Nobody expected Johnson to succeed, and was a desperation signing because Wells, Wake, and CLement are hurt. The Pedro AND Damon points of yours are moot, because the FO never said they couldnt play. It was value and actually Pedro is appearing to fall off this season, so who knows what happens with him next year. We got Crisp to play center, and he is much younger and is the future in CF. We were competing with the Yankees for Damon, and generally when we compete with the Yankees for a player....we lose (Mussina, Pavano, Contreras, Arod). The Sox FO doesnt throw money around like them, and I cant say I blame them. You are talking for yourself, and not the opinion of the board. Look at the threads and you will see that many people were indeed happy with the signings of Tavarez and Seanez.