example1

Interesting logic. I don't totally disagree but a) if there is a one game playoff why wouldn't you want the best pitcher possible? Presumably you would want him for a game 5 or 7 in a regular series... And if they manage to win that one game series it would be crucial to have the best pitching staff possible behind the play-in starter. I see what you are saying, but the logic goes both ways: don't overspend due to the one game playoff format OR due to the one game format, you better put the best possible players on the field or a potential ticket to compete for the WS could be squandered. This calculus will depend on two things and will likely be an important point for years to come. Factor 1: how good is the pitcher in question? And 2) what's the cost of acquisition? I assume there are a few pitchers that you would hands down want starting that game for you- historically Pedro, Schilling, Randy Johnson, etc, now Kershaw, Strausburg, Felix, etc and others where it doesn't make a big enough difference. Hamels might be in the second category, but it depends on asking price.

Give Kalish some slack. He's a tough kid and is returning after a full season off and rushing to get back. He's got the tools and character to be quite successful.

I was about to post a snarky response to you starting this thread but I stopped because I can see you're just upset and starting to calm down. I don't think that worrying about the Yankees does the slightest good at all. It's just not worth it. It's not about winning the division right now, it's about finishing the arduous season and having a shot at the World Series. There are multiple paths to a World Series and not all of them go through a division title. Yes, tonight was a really disappointing loss. It's frustrating as hell. That said, it's just one loss. The team is well within striking distance and in no way should they hang it up (as the title of your thread implies). They aren't getting crushed, they are losing close games, on the road, late in games. Yes, it is more than just pitching. Two of the most dynamic players in the league are out of the lineup. The team's closer, who has a track record that matches Papelbon's when on the mound, has missed the entire season, to the tune of 4-5 blown saves and an ERA above 4 for Aceves. They've had dozens of lineups, dozens of center fielders, and their two supposed rocks in the middle of the lineup (Pedroia and Gonzalez) are both having the worst years of their careers. It is likely that both are hiding injuries, partially because the team can't stand to lose them right now. We talk about the pitching, but look at the offense they have had on this roadtrip and tell me they don't have concerns on offense, or that they wouldn't be better with Ellsbury and/or Crawford. Their hot-shot rookie 3B is down with an injury, so they're starting Punto every day. I suspect you see all of these things as negatives, and they probably are. What does a glass-half-full person see? * This team is within striking distance of a legitimate WC spot DESPITE having more injuries than any team reasonably can expect to weather. * The bullpen is arguibly the best in the league (aside from Aceves). They have a lot of depth and some guys who--to my eye, at least--are doing it legitimately, not because of luck. Andrew Miller and Vicente Padilla have both been exceptional. * The rotation hasn't been blowing these games. They have been tough enough to pitch through jams and have kept the team in most games. * Ortiz is having a career year in terms of production and leadership. * They suddenly have one of the best offensive catchers in the game. To me, this is a better team than last year's team. Last year seemed like a hapless, flawed team. Their bullpen was two pitchers deep, their team seemed old and slow and disinterested. Varitek and Wakefield were getting far too much playing time, as were Darnell MacDonald and JD Drew. Now, we don't know who should be sent down and the idea of getting injured players back almost poses more problems than solutions... that's not a bad problem to have. Unlike last year, this team seems like the kind of team that could really turn it on down the stretch and who other teams would not want to face if that happens. They have a winning record on the road and stay in games with the help of their bullpen, which Valentine has been managing very well. Their defense has been professional, if not excellent, and stands to get better with two of the better defenders returning to CF and LF. Long story short, I wouldn't write the team off just yet. Yes, they have some work to do to turn things around, and the have to win the games that are given to them. At the same time, when this team is up and running they should be able to do some damage. Just don't compare them to the Yankees at every turn. It really isn't relevant to whether or not the Sox are capable of making a splash this year.

I like the idea of the Sox making a splash and getting a SP for the stretch run. Greinke or Hamels would be preferred, depending on asking price.

This can't be right. The farm doesn't have anything to offer and is another example of the wreckage left by that baffoon Epstein. Xander is one of those prospects who could help land a truly elite arm. No way they should move him for 3 months of Hamels.

Also, 1. Turn Middlebrooks into one of those athletes who does yoga and 2. Next offseason start working Daniel Nava out at 1B.

Christ. Fingers crossed on this one. This is the last thing this team needs or can stand. The injuries are f***ing rediculous. I mean, it's not getting hit in the face with a pick off move fresh off the DL rediculous, but it's pretty bad.

You realize you sound silly, right? I mean, if I showed the same stats for Buchholz you would strongly disagree. A 3.34 ERA and 1.15 WHIP with less than a K/IP isn't an ace these days and you know it. Also, I just looked at his stats. Again, you realize you sound silly, right? In the time frame you discussed he has had one start with 7 ER and another with 6 ER. Also, he's faced Seattle once, KC twice and a bunch of other fairly mediocre offenses during the stretch. Let's see him shut down Texas, or LAA, or Boston a few times then we can discuss aceness. At this point in his career, he has a 6.65 ERA in 46 IP against Boston, with a 1.652 WHIP. Color me not-yet-impressed. edit: missed the post right above me... what Rdsx said.

I have no clue redsoxbeatz. I believe that the Sox had a philosophy for awhile of only letting relievers pitch out of the stretch. I got the sense that they trained it up and down the system. They don't appear to require that anymore (see Aceves and Melancon). If nothing else, the stretch allowed pitchers to: a) simplify their motion at all times and not have to adjust when there are runners on. With Bard, who apparently did a lot of simplification of his delivery and working on the particulars, perhaps shifting his delivery to include pitching out of the windup had him lose whatever 'check points' he had developed to know that he was executing his delivery appropriately. He's talked about arm-slot and things, which might be related. I still have faith that the Sox aren't going to give up on Bard but we shouldn't expect anything out of him for 2012, which is a shame given how good he was in 2011, 2010, etc.,

It's like a carbon copy of Thursday. Bummer. Going to the game tomorrow. Go Sox. Big offensive day is due.

s***. Next time, bunt Salty.

Bummer that they didnt' move the runs over there...

Have the Sox won an extra inning game this year?

Here's where the Sox sit with regard to prospects: Combination of SoxProspects rankings and my own fairly conservative guesses about who stands a good chance of contributing at an MLB level at some point in their career (bold): Pitcher: Barnes Ranaudo Tazawa Workman Britton Wilson Owens Pimentel Johnson Buttrey Light Callahan Ramirez Pena Catcher Lavarnway Swihart Butler Vazquez Ibarra First-Base Shaw Anderson Gomez Rodriguez Second Base Coyle Third Base Cecchini Vitek Almanzar Renfroe Shortstop Bogaerts Iglesias Marrero Vinicio Lin Outfield Bradley Brentz Jacobs De La Cruz Jerez Lin Hassan Linares Ramos Perkins Hazelbaker Wilkerson Margot What can we learn from this list? The Sox have a few positions with pretty nice depth. If you include Nava and Kalish in the OF list then they have a number of potential contributors to go along with Crawford. They are also very deep at SS. They are relatively weak at 3B, 2B and 1B, which is apparently part of the plan, with Middlebrooks, Pedroia and Gonzalez holding down those positions. The players who are bolded above are probably the ones who would draw the most legitimate interest from other teams for trades, though some are either too young (Owens, Buttrey) or too talented (Britton, Workman) to count out. There are probably a significant number of other players in the system that other teams would be interested in, but for my money the bolded ones here are guys I would be asking for if I were another team dealing an established player.

A move that is making more and more sense to me right now is trading Ellsbury for prospects. I can't think of the last time the Sox moved a player who could bring back a haul of actual prospects. They are generally on the other side of the deal (getting the big player). If they could add 2-3 legitimate, Kalish/Lavarnway level prospects for Ellsbury it would be wise. Not sure what the position of need is, possibly more SP, RP or 1B? In any case, it might be too much to expect the Sox to move Ellsbury as part of a deal for a big-name player, but with how Cherington has been able to pick young talent over the years I would trust them to get a few cost-controlled, impact players.

I've touted the "trade for Felix" line for many years. He's like the White Whale. It might be interesting, but he's likely not available. That said, I'll totally partake of the discussion.

It's funny that the discussion has gone on this long. Is there any indication that Seattle is actually looking to move Felix?

It's a hard call. Felix is probably a better pitcher and he's younger. He's also scheduled to be a FA after 2014. I just don't think the Sox will be in any position to be offering 20+m deals for 6-7 years to pitchers this offseason, so Hamels is probably an unrealistic option.

The Mariners would need to get an offensive piece roughly the equivalent of Felix on the mound PLUS at least one pitcher who could project to possibly be an ace in the majors. That would be like, after 2013, trading Will Middlebrooks and Barnes, plus a few prospects who will help in various ways (like Iglesias, Cecchini and/or Lavarnway). A huge package. If the Sox get to the point where they have really good talent in positions that are expendable (SS, OF seem like good candidates) then perhaps something could get done.

Right now Morales is the only starting pitcher with what I would call 'electric' stuff. Hitters are guessing against him. Lester used to look like that, Beckett did too historically, at times. Buchholz has much better command and better pitches, but he doesn't have the kick on his FB that Morales does. It's pretty exciting to see.

Morales could turn into a terrific starter and Miller could become the most dominant lefty reliever in the AL East. Nava could be an all-star and Bradley, Barnes and Kalish could turn out to be amazing, but Theo won't get credit. He merely acquired them when nobody else did. With Morales, Valentine deserves credit for starting him. Tito wouldn't have done that.