Rafael Devers May Actually Play First Base, Eventually

If the Sox put Devers at 1B it opens up their roster in so many ways.  They can put Yoshida there, and whether people like it or not that lifts up the lineup.

They could also continue to plug Rafaela in CF, call up Anthony and rotate him with Abreu and Duran between LF/RF/DH.  Or move Rafaela to the super utility role to call up Anthony and/or Mayer. 

I'm not sure why some people think it's a forgone conclusion he won't be a good defender at 1B because he wasn't great at 3B.  I don't think that's true, he might end up taking to the position and being good there.  Raffy works hard, he was just never built like an infielder. 

5 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

First base is entirely different than 3rd base.

Do you watch baseball much?

Hey thanks for asking!!   Actually, I played both positions in High School and College.  I trained players at both positions for over 20 years years and I worked with players at both positions to improve their draft status for many years but I'm sure you know much more about the game than I do.

3 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Hey thanks for asking!!   Actually, I played both positions in High School and College.  I trained players at both positions for over 20 years years and I worked with players at both positions to improve their draft status for many years but I'm sure you know much more about the game than I do.

Well then you wouldn't post the nonsense that you did.

A big part of the diva's defensive shortcomings stems from his throwing, which is not as big of a problem at 1st as opposed to 3rd. Plenty of guys have transitioned to 1st over the years, it's not nearly as drastic as you make it out to be.

I don't think there was alot of thought put into all of this. What, they didn't talk to Devers about getting Bregman before they got him? Seeing that Bregman was Coras aim probably from the get go, being their Houston connection, as well as Bregmans success in Fenway, why did they wait until the beginning of the season before telling Devers about DH? Im not sticking up for Devers 100% but he may have alot of pride and not be as team motivated as we want, neither was Manny. And the whole Yoshida thing is still unsolved. They could've traded Casas to Seattle for Luis Castillo but the RS had to have Yoshida in the deal so it got canceled. I understand, on paper, it's not an even trade, for us, but it solves alot of problems and they might've got Devers to play first much easier and Yoshida could be DH. 

38 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I've always felt Devers could be a decent 1B in a short time and maybe an average to plus one over a longer period.

He has quick reflexes and his range at 3B was not horrible. When compared to mostly big lumbering 1Bmen, his range at 1B could be a plus.

His major issue was throwing, and that is greatly reduced at 1B.

fangraphs has these career numbers at 3B on D:

Err -22.8 (74 Fielding Errors vs 66 Throwing Errors- pretty close.)

DPR -6.3

RngR +3.4

Actually, Devers main issue is that he had no skills to be a 3B.  He has no backhand ability, he has terrible balance and falls to his right frequently while backhanding plays, he has no baseball acumen when it comes to selecting which balls to make a play on, he's got a slow first step, he's not good at charging slowly hit balls and he's even worse at throwing on the run.  The reason that fangraph's numbers don't accurately represent the problem is that during his 8 seasons his errors the score keepers have only recorded roughly 1/4 of his misplays as errors.  Misplays don't get included in the fangraphs numbers. 

I was shocked in 2022 when Devers had 14 errors when his year by year errors starting in his partial season in 2017 were 14, 24, 22, 14 (60 games in 2020), 22 and 14 (in 2022).  FYI 2023 and 2024 were 19 and 12(only 130 games).  So I went to the very reliable Baseball Reference and went game by game counting the number of hits to 3B that occurred in 2022.  A hit to 3B is a ball hit to the 3B that does not result in an out but was a playable ball.  It could be a ball that was considered hit too hard, a ball that hits off his glove or his body or a ball that is mishit and the player doesn't make a play on it while charging the ball and throwing it.  These are the plays we see Bregman make regularly.  In 2022 Devers had 52 misplays and 14 errors so 38 balls didn't result in outs and didn't result in errors yet Devers made a play on them.  Those 38 misplays do not get included in the numbers by fangraphs which significantly reduces the errors related to the fielding side of the equation.  The throwing side was miserable but the fielding side likely created twice as many base runners and impacted the ERAs and WHIPs of the Red Sox pitching staff for 8 seasons.

Devers truly has no skills on defense beyond that of an average High School player and his skill level never improved during his MLB play, his MiLB play or even at the Dominican Republic Baseball Academy.  Many, many fans love Devers and have claimed he's been improving for years.  The data shows the opposite.  No improvement over roughly 14 seasons of baseball!!  We haven't seen the number of errors (not counting misplays) that Devers has made since the Dead Ball era when infields weren't manicured and the baseballs were reused throughout the games leaving them out of round frequently.  That's how bad Devers is on defense. 

There is absolutely no reason to play him anywhere other than DH.  You can't compare him to other "normal" 3Bs and suggest if others can do it he can do it.  There was NOTHING normal about his defense at 3B.  Let him finish his career at DH.  Papi was fine not playing, JD was fine not playing and Devers will be fine not playing and Boston should win roughly 10 games a year more with Bregman at 3B not Devers.

26 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Well then you wouldn't post the nonsense that you did.

A big part of the diva's defensive shortcomings stems from his throwing, which is not as big of a problem at 1st as opposed to 3rd. Plenty of guys have transitioned to 1st over the years, it's not nearly as drastic as you make it out to be.

To call something you don't agree with "nonsense" is both unnecessary and inflamatory.  Clearly you lack experience with the game, so I'll ignore the insult.  You know it's perfectly fine being a fan of Devers without making up things about him that simply aren't true based on the data.  He doesn't belong on the field in any capacity other than a DH.  14 years of bad play typically proves the point to most people.  

10 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

To call something you don't agree with "nonsense" is both unnecessary and inflamatory.  Clearly you lack experience with the game, so I'll ignore the insult.  You know it's perfectly fine being a fan of Devers without making up things about him that simply aren't true based on the data.  He doesn't belong on the field in any capacity other than a DH.  14 years of bad play typically proves the point to most people.  

More nonsense.

14 yrs of data at another position does not reflect how he would perform at 1B.

I'm beginning to doubt that you have actually played the game.

1 minute ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

More nonsense.

14 yrs of data at another position does not reflect how he would perform at 1B.

I'm beginning to doubt that you have actually played the game.

Clearly, facts don't affect your opinions. There is no point in continuing your baseball education by me.

Think what you think and be happy.  Remember, your ignorance is the best way to create bliss in your life.

Maybe next time you speak with a far superior baseball mind you might take heed, do some research and verify that facts that you are so completely wrong about.  Look up ONE fact.   Devers has more errors in 8 seasons than anyone currently in baseball.  He's not bad, he's technically the WORST at 3B.

Now ask any baseball fan, even someone as naive as you, whether one of the top hitters on your team who is the WORST defensive player in baseball at 3B should be moved to another position when there are so many far superior alternatives.  Even a naive fan can see what a dumb idea that is.  This is professional baseball.  It's not little league where this type of thinking might make sense, these professional athletes spend decades trying to develop MLB skills and to be the WORST says volumes about his defensive skills. 

1 - Can he field a grounder at a MLB level?  The answer is NO.

2 - Can he accurately throw a baseball 90 to 120 feet consistently?  The answer is NO.

3 - Does he understand the game well enough to know when to attempt a play on a ball hit to the player next to him on the field?  The answer is NO.

4 - Does he have good balance, good quickness to the ball, good hands, good footwork or good hand/eye coordination on balls moving at 100 mph or more?  The answer to all of them is NO.

ANYONE observing him at any time during his career would agree to his complete lack of skills and how inappropriate it was to allow him to play all those years and hurt the team.

That leaves only one conclusion.  DH ONLY.  Too many other players have far superior defensive skills to hurt the team defense with such a horrendous defender like Devers.  This is a team sport and what is best for the team needs to happen.  Devers at DH the rest of his career.

You may want to stop disputing facts and dismissing them as nonsense since your opinion differs from the facts.

24 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

More nonsense.

14 yrs of data at another position does not reflect how he would perform at 1B.

I'm beginning to doubt that you have actually played the game.

We might have found the most pessimistic person on earth on Raffy's prospect of playing a 1B.....wait a minute.  Could that be Raffy's burner account? Dude secretly writes in English and wants to convince the world he can't play 1b

Dude.......did you just declare yourself a far superior baseball mind?

AH man, I'm grabbing the popcorm. 

15 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Clearly, facts don't affect your opinions. There is no point in continuing your baseball education by me.

Think what you think and be happy.  Remember, your ignorance is the best way to create bliss in your life.

Maybe next time you speak with a far superior baseball mind you might take heed, do some research and verify that facts that you are so completely wrong about.  Look up ONE fact.   Devers has more errors in 8 seasons than anyone currently in baseball.  He's not bad, he's technically the WORST at 3B. Again, what he did at 3rd base is irrelevant.

Now ask any baseball fan, even someone as naive as you, whether one of the top hitters on your team who is the WORST defensive player in baseball at 3B should be moved to another position when there are so many far superior alternatives.  Even a naive fan can see what a dumb idea that is.  This is professional baseball.  It's not little league where this type of thinking might make sense, these professional athletes spend decades trying to develop MLB skills and to be the WORST says volumes about his defensive skills. 

1 - Can he field a grounder at a MLB level?  The answer is NO. He certainly did for 8yrs

2 - Can he accurately throw a baseball 90 to 120 feet consistently?  The answer is NO. Not nearly as important at 1B as it is at 3rd

3 - Does he understand the game well enough to know when to attempt a play on a ball hit to the player next to him on the field?  The answer is NO. Again, very seldom does this happen at 1B

4 - Does he have good balance, good quickness to the ball, good hands, good footwork or good hand/eye coordination on balls moving at 100 mph or more?  The answer to all of them is NO. You just touted him as one of the top hitters in baseball yet he doesn't have hand/eye coordination on balls moving at 100MPH+? Do you think much before posting because it's not evident.

ANYONE observing him at any time during his career would agree to his complete lack of skills and how inappropriate it was to allow him to play all those years and hurt the team.

That leaves only one conclusion.  DH ONLY.  Too many other players have far superior defensive skills to hurt the team defense with such a horrendous defender like Devers.  This is a team sport and what is best for the team needs to happen.  Devers at DH the rest of his career.

You may want to stop disputing facts and dismissing them as nonsense since your opinion differs from the facts.

I was a 3rd base coach on my nephew's Little League team before moving on as a roving instructor for the El Paso Chihuahuas. Surely this makes me the far superior baseball mind.

(See how easy it is to lie on the internet just like you?)

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

I especially liked the part where he declared the diva as one of the top hitters in baseball and then in the next breath claimed he didn't have the hand/eye coordination to react to a baseball at 100MPH!!

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Vlad Jr went from being a -20 OAA 3b to a -13 1b (probably should be a DH). 

Miggy went from a -17 OAA 3b to 0 0AA 1b (for a little while). 

It's hard to really say what Raffy could do at 1b without him actually transitioning there! 

Those facts suggest that people much better at fielding at 3B were successful at transitioning to being adequate at 1B.  If Devers was a league average defender moving from 3B to 1B I would agree with you whole heartedly.  Unfortunately, he is literally the worst of all time.  That makes your hypothesis pretty shaky because we don't know if a worst of all time will have the success of a league average defender.

More importantly, why is there a need to put a square peg in a round hole?  I get that you believe there is a chance that it might work but aren't there many, many alternative players that would be far more likely to be successful playing 1B?  Also, defensive injuries at 1B can be avoided for a very critical offensive player if he DHs.  Why not lower Devers' chance of injury by NOT playing at 1B?  It won't remove him from risk but it clearly reduces the risk of ending a run at the playoffs due to a defensive injury to Devers.

Lastly, what's best for the team?  Devers has hurt the team dramatically on defense for 8 years.  Why pick a solution that is highly likely to hurt the team in the future?  Lots of accomplished first basemen exist in the MLB.  Why not maximize the team value by getting one rather than moving the worst 3B in history to 1B?

36 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

More nonsense.

14 yrs of data at another position does not reflect how he would perform at 1B.

I'm beginning to doubt that you have actually played the game.

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Vlad Jr went from being a -20 OAA 3b to a -13 1b (probably should be a DH). 

Miggy went from a -17 OAA 3b to 0 0AA 1b (for a little while). 

It's hard to really say what Raffy could do at 1b without him actually transitioning there! 

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Dude.......did you just declare yourself a far superior baseball mind?

 

AH man, I'm grabbing the popcorm. 

I only did it because I was dealing with a condescending person.  I'm a third-generation ball player who doesn't have much patience for ignorant people that lead with insults like he did.  Based on what he's written that I have read, I didn't even consider my comment bragging.

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

I was a 3rd base coach on my nephew's Little League team before moving on as a roving instructor for the El Paso Chihuahuas. Surely this makes me the far superior baseball mind.

(See how easy it is to lie on the internet just like you?)

Anyone that starts with insults isn't worth my time.  Based on your moniker I believe I have read your ignorant comments on other sites like this one.  

4 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Anyone that starts with insults isn't worth my time.  Based on your moniker I believe I have read your ignorant comments on other sites like this one.  

LOL, sure you have.

Just like you coach ballplayers.

Too funny.

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

My dogs would never let me sleep past 530. 😔

Mine usually doesn't either.

The bright side is that means I usually catch the sunrise over the ocean.

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd say his one plus at 3B was his quick reaction time. His range was limited by his speed, but he looked quick.

His "footwork" was not great for getting into the right position to throw accurately, IMO, but to field hard shots, he seemed okay on that.

Footwork is important for fielding throws to 1B, so maybe he'd have a hard time on that.

He could be awful at 1B, but think he'd be okay at fielding hard shots and throws. I'm not so sure he can keep his foot on the base or be in the right position to field a bad throw.

I kinda hope we won't find out, especially, if this is about getting Yoshida playing time.

I agree with your assessment of Devers' skills.  The reaction time to me was less positive because I watched replays of his fielding and compared it to other 3Bs like Bregman.  I stop the video when I saw his first movement and checked to see where in the infield the ball was.  Consistently, the ball was far closer to Devers than Bregman and others when freeze framed meaning it traveled farther before the player reacted.  I concluded a slow reaction time from that.  

For me, I just keep asking why does anyone want to force this move when so many other choices are available.   Anyone else at 1B reduces Devers' overall risk of getting hurt, but like so many have pointed out he could get hurt anyway.  That's true but everyone should be able to see all that is being sought is less risk for a top hitter on the team and no urgency to make the 1B spot a placibo for Devers' ego.  It's what's best for the team so I favor him being a DH forever.

56 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Anyone that starts with insults isn't worth my time.  Based on your moniker I believe I have read your ignorant comments on other sites like this one.  

You still trying for that diplomatic job with the State Department?