Yanks acquire Jameson Taillon

[Bellhorn04]

None of the trades I mentioned would come close to "decimation." I'll be thrilled if these 4 combines even play 2 years in MLB, let alone at the level Taillon is.

 

When DD decimated the farm, he didn't do it all in one trade either. And it was often pointed out that most of the guys he traded didn't amount to anything.

 

The big thing is, DD did it when we were clearly in a window of contention. Now we're not.

 

Doing this kind of trade to get back a guy who's gone after 2022 seems to be antithetical to what Bloom is trying to do right now.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[dgalehouse]

In other words, you still don't get the praise for Bloom, right?

 

In fairness, Bloom deserves more time to succeed. But I can't see praising a guy who finished dead last in his first year on the job.

[Bellhorn04]

Is there some survey results somewhere?

 

Here's one piece on it.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/01/24/jameson-taillon-trade-grades-yankees-pirates

[Bellhorn04]

In fairness, Bloom deserves more time to succeed. But I can't see praising a guy who finished dead last in his first year on the job.

 

His first year on the job was a 60-game season in a pandemic after being given orders to trade Mookie Betts, and more if possible, and not to spend very much. Not only did we lose Betts, but as it turned out, we lost 4/5 of the previous year's rotation -Sale, Price, E-Rod and Porcello, for the whole season.

 

He also had to replace Cora.

[dgalehouse]

His first year on the job was a 60-game season in a pandemic after being given orders to trade Mookie Betts, and more if possible, and not to spend very much. Not only did we lose Betts, but as it turned out, we lost 4/5 of the previous year's rotation -Sale, Price, E-Rod and Porcello, for the whole season.

 

He also had to replace Cora.

 

Legitimate excuses. But still nothing commendable about the results.

[moonslav59]

When DD decimated the farm, he didn't do it all in one trade either. And it was often pointed out that most of the guys he traded didn't amount to anything.

 

The big thing is, DD did it when we were clearly in a window of contention. Now we're not.

 

Doing this kind of trade to get back a guy who's gone after 2022 seems to be antithetical to what Bloom is trying to do right now.

 

We can win it all in '22, or we can trade Taillon after he finished 4th in the AL Cy Young voting.

[notin]

I tend to be results oriented. The ultimate goal is winning. For a G.M. or most anyone. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But sometimes when the pudding turns out terrible , some folks still say that the cook did a good job. That is true loyalty . Or true stubbornness .

 

For most GMs, the ability to assemble a winning team is 100% dependent on the budget. If ownership says “no spending”, that’s when a GM has to be good...

[Bellhorn04]

We can win it all in '22, or we can trade Taillon after he finished 4th in the AL Cy Young voting.

 

If you read that piece I posted, it graded the trade a B+ for the Yanks and a B for the Pirates.

[moonslav59]

If you read that piece I posted, it graded the trade a B+ for the Yanks and a B for the Pirates.

 

I'm not sure what other offers were out there, if any, and if there were not many, then maybe his health issues are deeper than I imagined.

 

I'm not expert on prospects, even our own, and I'm sure Ben likes something he sees in a few of the guys he got back.

 

I have also said maybe my evaluation of Taillon is way too high. I do see pitchers like Kluber and Richards getting paid way more than Taillon, and certainly prospects traded have value, even if they are not highly ranked. Four prospects is a lot.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this pans out. Maybe Taillon is toast, and I'll eat my words. He does have 2 years to give some significant value.

Maybe one or two of those four prospects amounts to something useful or even special.

 

I'm not sure, if there is anything more to say. We all have our opinions, and yours and others who think this was a good deal for PIT all have merit.

 

I rate the trade as A+ for Yanks and C- for PIT based on just about no knowledge of what else was on the table and what budget constraints Ben is under.

[notin]

I'm not sure what other offers were out there, if any, and if there were not many, then maybe his health issues are deeper than I imagined.

 

I'm not expert on prospects, even our own, and I'm sure Ben likes something he sees in a few of the guys he got back.

 

I have also said maybe my evaluation of Taillon is way too high. I do see pitchers like Kluber and Richards getting paid way more than Taillon, and certainly prospects traded have value, even if they are not highly ranked. Four prospects is a lot.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this pans out. Maybe Taillon is toast, and I'll eat my words. He does have 2 years to give some significant value.

Maybe one or two of those four prospects amounts to something useful or even special.

 

I'm not sure, if there is anything more to say. We all have our opinions, and yours and others who think this was a good deal for PIT all have merit.

 

I rate the trade as A+ for Yanks and C- for PIT based on just about no knowledge of what else was on the table and what budget constraints Ben is under.

 

Most accounts I have seen seem to say Cherington did a good job in both the Taillon and Musgrove trades, despite not really raiding either team's farm system...

[moonslav59]

Most accounts I have seen seem to say Cherington did a good job in both the Taillon and Musgrove trades, despite not really raiding either team's farm system...

 

Maybe the trend is that good pitchers don't bring back top prospects, anymore.

 

Maybe, I'm behind the times. (It wouldn't be the first time I discovered that about myself.)

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the trend is that good pitchers don't bring back top prospects, anymore.

 

It's not so much that as the combination of health issues and 2 years of control.

[moonslav59]

It's not so much that as the combination of health issues and 2 years of control.

 

Two years of control is way more than the two months teams get with deadline trades and twice as much as many winter deals for 1 year-controlled pitchers.

 

Other recent trades of good pitchers seems to be showing less returns than a few years ago.

[jacksonianmarch]

There’s precedent with Taillon both on ex Pitt pitchers and post TJS pitchers. His two major big league “injuries” were testicular cancer and TJS. It’s not like he was begging out a month at a time for a hamstring or something else altogether.

 

Two years of control is huge. If he’s one of the 95% that recover well from this procedure and if he takes to the new pitching approach, he’s got the goods to be just as good as Cole

 

Kluber is entirely different. Same level effectiveness, different method of action. He’s a movement and command pitcher who doesn’t blow you away but he’s missed time with a shoulder problem. That concerns me more and makes him a higher risk for sure

[moonslav59]

There’s precedent with Taillon both on ex Pitt pitchers and post TJS pitchers. His two major big league “injuries” were testicular cancer and TJS. It’s not like he was begging out a month at a time for a hamstring or something else altogether.

 

Two years of control is huge. If he’s one of the 95% that recover well from this procedure and if he takes to the new pitching approach, he’s got the goods to be just as good as Cole

 

Kluber is entirely different. Same level effectiveness, different method of action. He’s a movement and command pitcher who doesn’t blow you away but he’s missed time with a shoulder problem. That concerns me more and makes him a higher risk for sure

 

I agree 100%.

 

I still think getting Taillon will be the best off season move any team makes.

[notin]

Maybe the trend is that good pitchers don't bring back top prospects, anymore.

 

Maybe, I'm behind the times. (It wouldn't be the first time I discovered that about myself.)

 

I suspect Pitt moved Taillon when they could. He is a risk to make it to July, at least mroe so than most pitchers.

 

The Musgrove trade received mixxed reviews. As most fans know the top tier Padre prospects who were not invovled, the initial impression seems to be they sold low. But plenty of sites wqith ore in-depth knowledge of some of the players involved seemed to indicate that Cherington got a good haul for Musgrove. Part of the reason both deals looked questionable was Cherington appeared to (unlike most GMs) emphasize quantity over quality...

[moonslav59]

I suspect Pitt moved Taillon when they could. He is a risk to make it to July, at least mroe so than most pitchers.

 

The Musgrove trade received mixxed reviews. As most fans know the top tier Padre prospects who were not invovled, the initial impression seems to be they sold low. But plenty of sites wqith ore in-depth knowledge of some of the players involved seemed to indicate that Cherington got a good haul for Musgrove. Part of the reason both deals looked questionable was Cherington appeared to (unlike most GMs) emphasize quantity over quality...

 

The weird thing is, he publically stated he wanted top tier prospects for both, but he settled for quantity over quality.

 

I can understand why the Sox did not trade 3-4 prospects for 2 years or an injury-prone SP'er. One could argue we should be trading one of our injury-prone SP'ers for 4 prospects.

 

I hope Ben does well in PIT. I've always liked the Pirates and the city of Pittsburgh, but I think Taillon is going to do great things, the next 2 years.

[jacksonianmarch]

Taillon said today that he will be ditching his sinker and using his 4 seamer up in the zone more, a la Gerritt Cole. I expect humongous things from this kid

[moonslav59]

Taillon said today that he will be ditching his sinker and using his 4 seamer up in the zone more, a la Gerritt Cole. I expect humongous things from this kid

 

Great idea. Change everything.