Dave Bush hired as pitching coach

[notin]

Analytics is fine but it is mechanics not statistics that actually propels the baseball.

 

You do realize Dave Bush is a former MLB pitcher who presumably gained some understanding of mechanics in his 9 MLB seasons, right?

[moonslav59]

There may certainly be better choices than Bush, but do any of us really know for sure that somebody else is better?

[harmony]

There may certainly be better choices than Bush, but do any of us really know for sure that somebody else is better?

The Red Sox front office presumably has more information than we have on all candidates for the pitching coach slot.

[Elktonnick]

All hail the all knowing front office the source of all baseball knowledge and wisdom. Let's not pollute their dogma with alien influences.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox front office presumably has more information than we have on all candidates for the pitching coach slot.

 

Yes, and it's not like they've been a failure for the last 2 decades.

[notin]

All hail the all knowing front office the source of all baseball knowledge and wisdom. Let's not pollute their dogma with alien influences.

 

What’s your point? Are you implying you know more or your opinion should be taken into consideration?

[Elktonnick]

What’s your point? Are you implying you know more or your opinion should be taken into consideration?

 

The Red Sox themselves admitted that they needed to rethink their entire approach toward pitching and the development of pitchers throughout their organization. So when they have an opportunity to bring in a true outsider to help lead that effort they decide to promote an internal candidate. As a wise man once said, "If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got!"

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox themselves admitted that they needed to rethink their entire approach toward pitching and the development of pitchers throughout their organization. So when they have an opportunity to bring in a true outsider to help lead that effort they decide to promote an internal candidate. As a wise man once said, "If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got!"

 

Your argument is specious, because Bush hasn't been in the organization that long. It's not like he's a member of the old guard.

[notin]

The Red Sox themselves admitted that they needed to rethink their entire approach toward pitching and the development of pitchers throughout their organization. So when they have an opportunity to bring in a true outsider to help lead that effort they decide to promote an internal candidate. As a wise man once said, "If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got!"

 

A few assumptions here.

 

What makes you think Bush is no different than previous candidates and what makes you think external candidates are?

[Elktonnick]

Your argument is specious, because Bush hasn't been in the organization that long. It's not like he's a member of the old guard.

 

Bush has been with Boston since 2016. Three years is more than enough to have become indoctrinated with Boston's pitching philosophy. (Didn't they say that one of the reasons he was hired was his familiarity with the Red Sox system.) A new approach means a new approach not recycling staffers. As they say let's rearrange the deck chairs on Titanic that will save the ship.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Elktonnick

[Bellhorn04]

Bush has been with Boston since 2016. Three years is more than enough to have become indoctrinated with Boston's pitching philosophy.

 

Yeah, I'm sure he's totally brainwashed and can't handle any changes at all.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox themselves admitted that they needed to rethink their entire approach toward pitching and the development of pitchers throughout their organization. So when they have an opportunity to bring in a true outsider to help lead that effort they decide to promote an internal candidate. As a wise man once said, "If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got!"

 

Well, we "got" 4 rings.

 

Plus, we got new blood in Bloom.

 

I'm not sure blowing everything up was needed.

[Elktonnick]

If he was on board with Cora's approach to this past years ST is reason enough to go outside the organization.

[Bellhorn04]

If he was on board with Cora's approach to this past years ST is reason enough to go outside the organization.

 

Yes, I figured you'd bring Restgate into it at some point.

 

Maybe they didn't ask Bush about it. Ort maybe he dissented strenuously!

 

Try to think a little more positively, Nick.

[Elktonnick]

They got 4 rings primarily because of FA starters. Not one of their primary pitchers relievers or starters in 2018 were products of the Red Sox system. They recognized the need to revamp their approach toward pitching yet when given the opportunity to bring in a fresh approach they declined to do so. BTW I do not consider Bloom's first move to ratify Bush's hiring as an auspicious beginning. Is he the new head of Baseball Ops or merely the first among equals? Is he merely a Coordinator or really in charge.

[Elktonnick]

I positively do not agree with Bush's hiring.

[Bellhorn04]

They got 4 rings primarily because of FA starters. Not one of their primary pitchers relievers or starters in 2018 were products of the Red Sox system. They recognized the need to revamp their approach toward pitching yet when given the opportunity to bring in a fresh approach they declined to do so. BTW I do not consider Bloom's first move to ratify Bush's hiring as an auspicious beginning. Is he the new head of Baseball Ops or merely the first among equals? Is he merely a Coordinator or really in charge.

 

Bush might be an advocate of a very fresh approach. And the new structure might be very effective. I doubt a guy like Bloom accepted a position where he has no power in the decision-making process.

 

You just choose to make every negative assumption possible.

[Bellhorn04]

I positively do not agree with Bush's hiring.

 

Even though you know very little about why they actually decided he was the best candidate.

[Elktonnick]

That is because I have been a Red Sox fan longer than you

[Elktonnick]

Even though you know very little about why they actually decided he was the best candidate.

 

Like I said I wanted them to go outside the organization.

[notin]

Even though you know very little about why they actually decided he was the best candidate.

 

See and this is why I keep making posts abouyt cognitive biases.

 

Bush is a completely different option than LaVangie, as one was a Major League pitcher while the other was a minor league catcher. LaVangie got the job as a show of faith for many years of service to the club. Bush was hired for the job because of his analytical background and probably because he also has been an MLB pitcher. But because both came from inside the organization, the failure of one assures the failure of the other in some eyes.

 

This is a form of Confirmation Bias called Background Bias or History Bias.

 

If Bush had been performing the exact same role in, say, Tampa, would the same questions still exist?

[Bellhorn04]

That is because I have been a Red Sox fan longer than you

 

I've been a fan for 50 years. That may not be longer than you, but it's long.

[notin]

That is because I have been a Red Sox fan longer than you

 

Then you have also seen plenty of instances where the Sox made internal hiring options that did work out...

[harmony]

I positively do not agree with Bush's hiring.

Did you apply?

 

Just curious in light of your harsh reaction.

[Elktonnick]

Then you have also seen plenty of instances where the Sox made internal hiring options that did work out...

Yea like LaVangie

[Elktonnick]

Did you apply?

 

Just curious in light of your harsh reaction.

My reaction is not harsh. I just disagree with the hire because I believe it is contrary to their previous statements about a different approach.

Unlike some I do not accept on faith every move that comes out of the FO. They aren't the Vatican..

[notin]

My reaction is not harsh. I just disagree with the hire because I believe it is contrary to their previous statements about a different approach.

Unlike some I do not accept on faith every move that comes out of the FO. They aren't the Vatican..

 

Well, it actually is a different approach. Just because he came from the Sox does not mean he is the same type of coach, as I explained earlier.

 

In fact, you seem to be advocating for the same old approach by getting a coach well-versed in mechanics (which Bush may or may not be). But those candidates largely fall into two categories:

 

1. Experienced pitching coaches who were fired by their previous organization

2. Inexperienced candidates who have never been an MLB pitching coach.

 

Which is preferable? And how is either better or worse the Bush?

 

Bush might fail miserably, or he might succeed. But to say he is the same old as LaVangie because he came from the same organization is just silly. That's like saying the Sox should unload Bobby Dalbec because Lars Anderson was a flop...

[Elktonnick]

Well, it actually is a different approach. Just because he came from the Sox does not mean he is the same type of coach, as I explained earlier.

 

In fact, you seem to be advocating for the same old approach by getting a coach well-versed in mechanics (which Bush may or may not be). But those candidates largely fall into two categories:

 

1. Experienced pitching coaches who were fired by their previous organization

2. Inexperienced candidates who have never been an MLB pitching coach.

 

Which is preferable? And how is either better or worse the Bush?

 

Bush might fail miserably, or he might succeed. But to say he is the same old as LaVangie because he came from the same organization is just silly. That's like saying the Sox should unload Bobby Dalbec because Lars Anderson was a flop...

 

While I agree Bush will have to prove himself, it isn't silly to be skeptical that the organization which hired Bush before they announced their desire for a fresh approach toward pitching is sincere in their intention to actually change that approach when they promote an insider to be the agent of that change. He may have a different skill set than LaVangie but that doesn't mean he has embraced the different philosophy toward pitching need to implement that change .

[Bellhorn04]

Yea like LaVangie

 

His first year turned out OK.

[Bellhorn04]

While I agree Bush will have to prove himself, it isn't silly to be skeptical that the organization which hired Bush before they announced their desire for a fresh approach toward pitching is sincere in their intention to actually change that approach when they promote an insider to be the agent of that change. He may have a different skill set than LaVangie but that doesn't mean he has embraced the different philosophy toward pitching need to implement that change .

 

I suspect he will embrace the new philosophy, and that has a lot to do with why they hired him, and he knows it.