Sox Payroll Breakdown

[jacksonianmarch]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/a-closer-look-at-the-red-sox-and-the-luxury-tax.html

 

Very well done and a good reason why the Sox have essentially stopped adding

[Kimmi]

It makes sense why Henry would put a hold on the spending, but as I said before, I find it odd that he would not go all out this year and wait until next year to tighten the reigns.

 

That said,

 

1. I am not advocating for Henry to spend more money.

2. I am good going into the season with the team we have.

 

I just don't understand Henry's logic in not spending this year as opposed to waiting until next year.

[Bellhorn04]

It makes sense why Henry would put a hold on the spending, but as I said before, I find it odd that he would not go all out this year and wait until next year to tighten the reigns.

 

That said,

 

1. I am not advocating for Henry to spend more money.

2. I am good going into the season with the team we have.

 

I just don't understand Henry's logic in not spending this year as opposed to waiting until next year.

 

There's only one explanation I can see. Henry and Dombrowski must have talked at great length about whether Dave could construct an adequate bullpen without spending any money on it, and decided that not only could he do it, but that it would be fun and would make the team look very smart.

[jacksonianmarch]

Or really, really dumb. It’s like having a tricked out Lamborghini but having your cousin Eddy fix the brakes. Cousin Eddy might know what he’s doing, or you could crash your car

[Kimmi]

There's only one explanation I can see. Henry and Dombrowski must have talked at great length about whether Dave could construct an adequate bullpen without spending any money on it, and decided that not only could he do it, but that it would be fun and would make the team look very smart.

 

You have no idea how happy and excited this post makes me.

 

If that's the case, I may have to move Dombrowski up to equal ranking with Ben.

[Kimmi]

Or really, really dumb. It’s like having a tricked out Lamborghini but having your cousin Eddy fix the brakes. Cousin Eddy might know what he’s doing, or you could crash your car

 

Yes, and the same could be said of Ace Mechanic Joe.

[Bellhorn04]

The head-scratcher is still the Pearce signing. If you're that adamant about staying below the hell threshold, why are you signing a 36-year old platoon bat for 6.25 million plus tax? I'm happy to have Pearce, but it really added to the constraints, you might say.

[notin]

I don’t get why they cut off the spending. It could be something more along the lines of relief pitchers being the worst investment statistically? I could see that. Closers cost $15-18mill. Set up guys cost $7-9mill. And together they provide maybe 3 fWAR.

 

So maybe the thought was to just not soend $22-27mill on maybe 3 fWAR worth of talent? I could that that logic being applied here, but if you try it, it helps to have a better plan for replacements than career minor league talent with fastballs that’s harder to control than kites in a hurricane...

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t get why they cut off the spending. It could be something more along the lines of relief pitchers being the worst investment statistically? I could see that. Closers cost $15-18mill. Set up guys cost $7-9mill. And together they provide maybe 3 fWAR.

 

So maybe the thought was to just not soend $22-27mill on maybe 3 fWAR worth of talent? I could that that logic being applied here, but if you try it, it helps to have a better plan for replacements than career minor league talent with fastballs that’s harder to control than kites in a hurricane...

 

Maybe the success with Brasier convinced them they could turn sow's ears into silk purses.

[notin]

There's only one explanation I can see. Henry and Dombrowski must have talked at great length about whether Dave could construct an adequate bullpen without spending any money on it, and decided that not only could he do it, but that it would be fun and would make the team look very smart.

 

I hope they didn’t decide to do it “for fun.”

 

My thoughts are they concluded 1) bullpen pitching at current prices are bad investments (for baseball purposes) and 2) Dombrowski has a long history (with mixed results) of not spending on bullpens.

 

That he saw his successor win a WS in Florida with his former acquisition Braden Looper at closer probably didn’t sway him against the idea...

[notin]

Maybe the success with Brasier convinced them they could turn sow's ears into silk purses.

 

 

Not to mention the successes Dombrowski had in the past with no name pitchers at closer. Pitchers like Trevor Hoffman, Rob Nen, Matt Mantei, and Fernando Rodney, to name a few...

[jacksonianmarch]

Find me a Dombrowski World Series or league championship team with a fresh closer at season’s start. IIRC, he has always had someone who’s closed successfully in years past

[Bellhorn04]

Not to mention the successes Dombrowski had in the past with no name pitchers at closer. Pitchers like Trevor Hoffman, Rob Nen, Matt Mantei, and Fernando Rodney, to name a few...

 

And now he's got Brian Bannister, who seems to be gaining a reputation as quite the pitching guru, to go to work on these reclamation projects.

[Bellhorn04]

In the dark part of my mind I can't help thinking there's a panic option built in here somewhere too.

[notin]

Find me a Dombrowski World Series or league championship team with a fresh closer at season’s start. IIRC, he has always had someone who’s closed successfully in years past

 

 

Can we count the 2006 Tigers?

 

They used 38yo underwhelming journeyman Todd Jones most of the season. But that year also launched the closing career of Fernando Rodney, which still continues to this day.

 

Oh and they went to the World Series...

[notin]

In the dark part of my mind I can't help thinking there's a panic option built in here somewhere too.

 

 

Maybe it’s called “Operation Durbin Feltman”...

[jacksonianmarch]

Can we count the 2006 Tigers?

 

They used 38yo underwhelming journeyman Todd Jones most of the season. But that year also launched the closing career of Fernando Rodney, which still continues to this day.

 

Oh and they went to the World Series...

 

He was an established closer

[notin]

He was an established closer

 

Who Rodney?

 

He had 12 career saves. The Red Sox have 4 pitchers with that many or more career saves now. What did Fernando Rodney do before 2006 to earn the title “established closer” that Tyler Thornburg hasn’t already done?

 

Or if you were talking about Todd Jones? He was 38!! This was FOUR YEARS after he retired from baseball, got hired by The Sporting News as a writer, then unretired from baseball and did both careers at once...

Edited February 2, 2019 by notin

[dgalehouse]

Maybe John Henry told Dombrowski that the spending party is over . And D.D. is just busting John's balls with some of these signings .

[notin]

Find me a Dombrowski World Series or league championship team with a fresh closer at season’s start. IIRC, he has always had someone who’s closed successfully in years past

 

 

Just wondering, is there any reason why Jenrry Mejia doesn’t count as an established closer?

[Bellhorn04]

Just wondering, is there any reason why Jenrry Mejia doesn’t count as an established closer?

 

You might say he has to 're-establish' after not pitching for 3 years.

[notin]

You might say he has to 're-establish' after not pitching for 3 years.

 

I think his definition of an established closer includes the criterion “cannot pitch in Boston.”

[moonslav59]

Even if any GM had no spending limit, none would pay Kimbrel $29M for 2019.

[dgalehouse]

Even if any GM had no spending limit, none would pay Kimbrel $29M for 2019.

I don't see that . It is the G.M. s job to put a winner on the field , within the budget constraints of the owner . It is not his job to manage the owner's checkbook. If he has no spending limit , why would he impose one on himself ? I am pretty sure that John Henry has the final say here . As well he should.

[notin]

I don't see that . It is the G.M. s job to put a winner on the field , within the budget constraints of the owner . It is not his job to manage the owner's checkbook. If he has no spending limit , why would he impose one on himself ? I am pretty sure that John Henry has the final say here . As well he should.

 

If there is a spending limit - which is not unreasonable - one has to wonder why Steven Pearce became a higher priority than re-stocking the bullpen.

 

Unless the plan to reset after 2019. Pearce took a one year deal, so he has no impact. DD probably (correctly) figured he would not be able to get Kimbrel or Miller or Britton or Ottavio etc. on a one year deal.

 

But even then, Strickland and Allen both took one year deals. Which makes me think that he prioritized Pearce over the bullpen simply because he did not plan to spend on the bullpen. Like I said before, this is not a new approach for him...

[moonslav59]

If there is a spending limit - which is not unreasonable - one has to wonder why Steven Pearce became a higher priority than re-stocking the bullpen.

 

Unless the plan to reset after 2019. Pearce took a one year deal, so he has no impact. DD probably (correctly) figured he would not be able to get Kimbrel or Miller or Britton or Ottavio etc. on a one year deal.

 

But even then, Strickland and Allen both took one year deals. Which makes me think that he prioritized Pearce over the bullpen simply because he did not plan to spend on the bullpen. Like I said before, this is not a new approach for him...

 

His plan might be to simply fix the pen mid season at a reduced cost.

 

Look what we gave up for Eovaldi last summer. I'm not saying that type of deal can be easily duplicated, but that sort of deal is better than paying Kimbrel $29M and being bumped down in the draft for the second year in a row.

 

[dgalehouse]

If there is a spending limit - which is not unreasonable - one has to wonder why Steven Pearce became a higher priority than re-stocking the bullpen.

 

Unless the plan to reset after 2019. Pearce took a one yeauur deal, so he has no impact. DD probably (correctly) figured he would not be able to get Kimbrel or Miller or Britton or Ottavio etc. on a one year deal.

 

But even then, Strickland and Allen both took one year deals. Which makes me think that he prioritized Pearce over the bullpen simply because he did not plan to spend on the bullpen. Like I said before, this is not a new approach for him...

If the plan for Pearce is to primarily play first base against left handed pitching, it seems like an odd choice of priorities.

[notin]

If the plan for Pearce is to primarily play first base against left handed pitching, it seems like an odd choice of priorities.

 

 

Exactly!!!

 

Unless there is no spending limit and DD is just operating under his own constraints. Then it makes sense. It might not be the smartest approach, but at least I can see why...

[moonslav59]

If the plan for Pearce is to primarily play first base against left handed pitching, it seems like an odd choice of priorities.

 

I agree, but he's done pretty well vs RHPs of late, and Moreland has been hurt or playing hurt a lot since joining the Sox.

 

OPS Vs RHPs only

Year Pearce/Moreland

2018 .828/ .780

2017 .767/ .784

2016 .795/ .700

2015 .765/ .876

2014 .856/ .692

 

2014-2018

vs RHPs:

.802 Pearce

.774 Moreland

 

vs LHPs

.884 Pearce

.690 Moreland

 

If we could trade Moreland, we could have some more money to acquire a RP'er(s).

 

We'd probably have to pay some of his salary, but any budget relief could help.

 

(Plus, we have Chavis and Dalbec to fill in for Moreland, and Holt & Swihart (amybe JD?) can play 1B.)

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly!!!

 

Unless there is no spending limit and DD is just operating under his own constraints. Then it makes sense. It might not be the smartest approach, but at least I can see why...

 

Of course there's a spending limit. Henry said not long ago that there are constraints. He said the constraints are not necessarily dictated by the tax, but by 'how much you're willing to lose'.