Lackey to the Cardinals

[Palodios]

Joe Kelly / Allen Craig coming back.

 

What the f***? Ben got fleeced here.

[Palodios]

This is bad. Very very bad. I can't understand how bad this deal is.

[BigPapi]

This is bad. Very very bad. I can't understand how bad this deal is.

 

If craig can't regain form, it was a terrible deal. Allen craig has been s***.

[d-money]

f***!!! U have got to be kidding me? Horrible trade!!

[RedSoxNC84]

What the f***. Ben. Dude. Come on.

[sk7326]

I suspect these aren't "Ben" trades.

[Palodios]

If craig can't regain form, it was a terrible deal. Allen craig has been s***.

 

Allen Craig is owed $25 million over the next three years. Joe Kelly recently was shelled by the Chicago Cubs and the Padres.

 

Lackey is a dominant #2 pitcher who will pitch for the minimum next year. The Red Sox are also giving someone else away with him.

 

What on earth happened? How? Why? This is the worst trade I've ever seen.

[Navafan29]

Imo this is a great deal. Kelly can start and relief pitch. Craig can be a fantastic hitter once he gets going. Surprised we didn't have to give up more for these two. If we play moneyball to get a starting rotation again (if that's even possible) we can win the division next year.

[BigPapi]

What the hell are we doing here. We have craig, victorino, nava, cespedes, jackie bradley jr and sometimes brock holt in the outfield now and now mookie can't come up?

[RedSoxNC84]

Imo this is a great deal. Kelly can start and relief pitch. Craig can be a fantastic hitter once he gets going. Surprised we didn't have to give up more for these two. If we play moneyball to get a starting rotation again (if that's even possible) we can win the division next year.

 

I don't think there's much of a good way to make this trade look good. Cespedes I could kind of defend, but this trade no.

[Palodios]

I am floored by this deal. I don't get it, my brain hurts just trying to comprehend why it was made. It makes me want to stop being a Red Sox fan, because this season went from awful to otherworldly bad.

[Palodios]

Also, the Red Sox are sending the Cardinals money.

 

What is going on? Did Red Sox ownership make a deal with Cardinal ownership to throw the World Series? This deal is getting historically bad.

[d-money]

Awful trade!!! I am getting flashbacks of a former gm or this is all lucchino.

[Spudboy]

This is a real head scratcher. I have no idea why this deal was done.

 

I think the Sox are very far off from being done "constructing" the future roster.

 

I just do not understand the way they are deconstructing it now!

[Dojji]

Ironically, I actually see what Cherington is thinking here. I didn't want Craig for Lester, but Lackey is less valuable than Lester, and I see the point in going for a guy with utility on all 4 corners. And don't overlook Joe Kelly, he's looking like he might be a serviceable bottom of the rotation guy.

 

With Lester the argument always was that if the deal wasn't good enough you could pay him what he wanted and keep him for at least another 3-4 years. Lackey was never a guy with that kind of option, so trading him for a younger veteran and a half decent young pitcing prospect to flesh out the rotation actually works for me.

 

I mean this does mean Cespedes makes even less sense -- but don't be too surprised if the Red Sox turn Cespedes around before the deadline is over.

[sk7326]

Ironically, I actually see what Cherington is thinking here. I didn't want Craig for Lester, but Lackey is less valuable than Lester, and I see the point in going for a guy with utility on all 4 corners.

 

And don't overlook Joe Kelly, he's looking like he might be a serviceable bottom of the rotation guy.

 

Lackey was a #2 starter being paid in styrafoam packing peanuts next season. That was a large asset. The Sox traded their top 2 starters for no long term value. I don't think these are Cherington deals - a fantasy league would have protested this deal.

[Dojji]

I didn't say I liked the trade. I said I can see what Cherington is thinking. Joe Kelly has the potential to be useful, and Craig could turn into the next Mike Lowell and could be used in any if 1b, 3B, LF, RF depending on what we need, so there is a point to him being here. He's a much better Fenway type hitter than Cespedes since he's a righthanded contact hitter -- a good candidate to perform at level or above in this park

 

If I recall correctly I heard rumors that Lackey might retire rather than play next year for league minimum, and that he wants a new contract. So don't just look at the contract and assume that Lackyt ever intended to honor that final year.

 

All told, I don't love this trade, but if you start with the assumption that Lackey had no intention to honor the last year of his conract without renegotiating it, everything else makes some sense, and we retain control of both the assets coming back longish-term (2-3 years) which is nice.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Dojji

[jacksonianmarch]

Rotoworld says Kelly is likely a pen arm in the future. Good production in pitcher friendly Busch, but chronically injured. Craig is the real get, IMO. I think if he can turn it around, he could be a middle of the order bat

[jd98]

Also, the Red Sox are sending the Cardinals money.

 

What is going on? Did Red Sox ownership make a deal with Cardinal ownership to throw the World Series? This deal is getting historically bad.

 

Wow. They're also sending Oakland money. WTF. They just love to piss away money. I need some money, send me some too.

[Palodios]

Dojji, it is much more important to have players who can play good defense at one position than to have players who perform terrible defense at multiple positions.

[sk7326]

I didn't say I liked the trade. I said I can see what Cherington is thinking. Joe Kelly has the potential to be useful, and Craig could turn into the next Mike Lowell and could be used in any if 1b, 3B, LF, RF depending on what we need, so there is a point to him being here. He's a much better Fenway type hitter than Cespedes since he's a righthanded contact hitter -- a good candidate to perform at level or above in this park

 

If I recall correctly I heard rumors that Lackey might retire rather than play next year for league minimum, and that he wants a new contract. So don't just look at the contract and assume that Lackyt ever intended to honor that final year.

 

Mike Lowell was an anvil the Red Sox had to take on to land a 25 YEAR OLD FORMER WORLD SERIES MVP!!! Regardless of whether Beckett lived up to his promise, he was a premium asset in 2006. As a big market team, you use your ability to take a garbage contract (which Lowell was at the time), so you can get the premium asset. There is no premium asset here. Just a lot of hope.

[jacksonianmarch]

I still don't understand why the sox couldn't get more for Lackey. The guy was dominant last yr and this yr and he is under control for an extra yr at no money for the most part. This is interesting. Craig is a reclamation project, someone they could have gotten for the likes of Andrew Miller. Kelly has been good in his short time in the bigs, but he doesn't stay healthy and will likely be a reliever. This is strange. No prospects in either deal and nobody with high ceilings

[Dojji]

That's what Lowell started as, but it's sure as HELL not what he finished as. He wound up as a world series MVP in his own right. They resigned him past his useful life, which didn't serve his memory well, but Mike Lowell was one heck of a third baseman in 06 and 07 when we needed him the mpst.

[jacksonianmarch]

Mike Lowell had more of a track record than Craig.

[GomesBeard]

Frig, this is getting weirder and weirder. Although a quick scan of Twitter indicates a lot of support for this trade from the various scribes..... So I don't know what to think. I will wait to see if anything else happens in the next 3 hours.

[Dojji]

Mike Lowell had more of a track record than Craig.

 

Nonetheless, they're not dissimilar. if anything, Craig is a better offensive player than Lowell was.

 

I think Fenway's going to be good to him anyway. We'll see what actually happens.

[sk7326]

That's what Lowell started as, but it's sure as HELL not what he finished as. He wound up as a world series MVP in his own right. They resigned him past his useful life, which didn't serve his memory well, but Mike Lowell was one heck of a third baseman in 06 and 07 when we needed him the mpst.

 

Can only evaluate the deal when it is made (what do you do with imperfect info and the evaluations at the time). Lowell was the price tag for a projected star (in addition to the prospects). There is no such star here. Not even a question mark with electric upside a la Carlos Martinez.

[d-money]

Craig was hitting 237.I just dont get this deal.

[Palodios]

Looking at Craig's career numbers and park factors, maybe Fenway can help him. I just wish his current numbers -- june and july especially -- didn't make him look so much like a DFA target. They would have been better off pulling in prospects and giving Dan Uggla a shot.

 

Basically, they traded two top of the rotation guys for two guys who could potentially turn into strong pieces, moving out of pitcher parks. The real problem is that Allen Craig has hit significantly better at home than away. We're talking an extra .070 OPS. So it isn't like Busch has hurt him that much.

[BigPapi]

Lackey was our best regular season man last year for a starter Edited July 31, 2014 by BigPapi