6/28 Red Sox @ N.Y. Yankees

[win red sox]

Good---just put him for defensive purposes late in the game. He has no more business being in the lineup than Drew is.

 

so you want to bench the number 9 hitter who is arguably the best defensive cf in the league cause he's struggling at the plate, while the entire rest of lineup outside of pedroia has been s*** defensively and offensively? is that about right.

[a700hitter]

Jackie Bradley is perfect on a team who already has a good lineup and is looking for a ninth hitting center fielder who can provide plus defense.

Bradley would be perfect in AAA right now.

[BigPapi]

Bradley would be perfect in AAA right now.

 

Hahahaahha true.

[TylerD]

Just happy we got the win. Offence was ineffective tonight again but Lester had a good performance. Needed that win! Can go to bed happy tonight.

[win red sox]

We can if we can sit Drew and Bradley down...permanently. Look, we know Pedroia, Ortiz and Napoli can hit; two of them did it tonight but we also know the other two cannot and will not. Why is that so hard to figure out?

 

who the hell is going to play cf if you send down Bradley? I can see XB moving back to ss if you sit down Drew, but who would play 3b? Holt was a horrific 3b and while he has played passable defense in the OF do you want him as your everyday CF?

[a700hitter]

who the hell is going to play cf if you send down Bradley? I can see XB moving back to ss if you sit down Drew, but who would play 3b? Holt was a horrific 3b and while he has played passable defense in the OF do you want him as your everyday CF?

I heard that Betts will be in the lineup tomorrow. Against a RHP tomorrow I would think that Holt and Nava will be in the lineup, so either Betts or Holt will be in CF. I can live with that until Victorino (a real CFer) comes back. Bradley can be a defensive replacement until Victorino returns at which time he gets a bus ticket to Pawtucket.

[seabeachfred]

so you want to bench the number 9 hitter who is arguably the best defensive cf in the league cause he's struggling at the plate, while the entire rest of lineup outside of pedroia has been s*** defensively and offensively? is that about right.

 

That's right win......as I explained already. Pedroia, Ortiz and Napoli will hit-----they've proven it and they proved it tonight. Bradley from last year's performance in his small trial with the team, hi absolutely horrendous ST and his miserable hitting this year is hitting under 200. And I know he is NOT going to hit or we would have by this time. Bradley right now is only valuable as a late inning defensive replacement because he need a hitter out there, and if Farrell shows some balls and puts Mookie Betts out there I will bet you anything you want that Bradley will never see CF as a regular again unless Farrell has one of his brain cramps. He needs to be sat---and of course Drew needs to be released forthwith. Notice Bogaerts is still struggling? I would bet that if he was put back at shortstop where he belongs within two or three games he will start hitting again. His confidence has been partially shattered and if we don't revive him we may, as Francona loved to say....."WE MAY LOSE HIM"

[win red sox]

I heard that Betts will be in the lineup tomorrow. Against a RHP tomorrow I would think that Holt and Nava will be in the lineup, so either Betts or Holt will be in CF. I can live with that until Victorino (a real CFer) comes back. Bradley can be a defensive replacement until Victorino returns at which time he gets a bus ticket to Pawtucket.

 

While Victorino was a plus rf last year, he has been below average cf for the last couple years prior, and prior to going on the dl he was getting on base less than JBJ. JBJ has had some really solid AB's the last couple of weeks, so if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Making Holt your regular Cf has to be a joke, right? And Betts has what, 20 games of CF in AAA? CF is harder than it looks.

[BigPapi]

While Victorino was a plus rf last year, he has been below average cf for the last couple years prior, and prior to going on the dl he was getting on base less than JBJ. JBJ has had some really solid AB's the last couple of weeks, so if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Making Holt your regular Cf has to be a joke, right? And Betts has what, 20 games of CF in AAA? CF is harder than it looks.

 

It is not fair to compare victorino's obp to Jackie's this year. He played in only 21 games. And those solid at bats haven't translated to hits. You are overrating defense on a team that desperately needs offense.

[win red sox]

That's right win......as I explained already. Pedroia, Ortiz and Napoli will hit-----they've proven it and they proved it tonight. Bradley from last year's performance in his small trial with the team, hi absolutely horrendous ST and his miserable hitting this year is hitting under 200. And I know he is NOT going to hit or we would have by this time. Bradley right now is only valuable as a late inning defensive replacement because he need a hitter out there, and if Farrell shows some balls and puts Mookie Betts out there I will bet you anything you want that Bradley will never see CF as a regular again unless Farrell has one of his brain cramps. He needs to be sat---and of course Drew needs to be released forthwith. Notice Bogaerts is still struggling? I would bet that if he was put back at shortstop where he belongs within two or three games he will start hitting again. His confidence has been partially shattered and if we don't revive him we may, as Francona loved to say....."WE MAY LOSE HIM"

 

seriously? you think that XB's struggle are because he moved to 3b? Just want to point out that he went 4/9 with 2hr his first 2 games at 3b. So is it possible that he got pull happy after that? Im not head doctor or a scout, but I doubt it hasn't anything to do with him moving to 3b. Rookies struggle, and some take longer to adjust than others.

[a700hitter]

While Victorino was a plus rf last year, he has been below average cf for the last couple years prior, and prior to going on the dl he was getting on base less than JBJ. JBJ has had some really solid AB's the last couple of weeks, so if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Making Holt your regular Cf has to be a joke, right? And Betts has what, 20 games of CF in AAA? CF is harder than it looks.

Holt and Betts would be stop gaps in CF until Victorino returns. Holt has surprised me time and again in the OF. Bradley has played his way back to the minors. It's as simple as that. What is a joke is comparing Victorino to Bradley. Bradley will have to stop sucking before he can be compared to victorino. When healthy, Victorino is probably still our best OFer.

[win red sox]

It is not fair to compare victorino's obp to Jackie's this year. He played in only 21 games. And those solid at bats haven't translated to hits. You are overrating defense on a team that desperately needs offense.

 

Maybe, but the cf defense is not close when comparing Victorino and JBJ. And how the number 9 hitter hits shouldn't make a difference on an offense. Pedroia has struggled, Ortiz has struggled(he's not getting pitched around), Nave has struggled prior to his recent call up, XB has been borderline unplayable on defense at ss and 3b and since 6/4 has a line of 117/159/169 so maybe the sox should send him down too. ROOKIES STRUGGLE, ITS PART OF BEING A RO0KIE.

[win red sox]

Holt and Betts would be stop gaps in CF until Victorino returns. Holt has surprised me time and again in the OF. Bradley has played his way back to the minors. It's as simple as that. What is a joke is comparing Victorino to Bradley. Bradley will have to stop sucking before he can be compared to victorino. When healthy, Victorino is probably still our best OFer.

 

Have you ever seen Victorino play cf? and furthermore have ever seen Betts play cf?

[a700hitter]

Maybe, but the cf defense is not close when comparing Victorino and JBJ. And how the number 9 hitter hits shouldn't make a difference on an offense. Pedroia has struggled, Ortiz has struggled(he's not getting pitched around), Nave has struggled prior to his recent call up, XB has been borderline unplayable on defense at ss and 3b and since 6/4 has a line of 117/159/169 so maybe the sox should send him down too. ROOKIES STRUGGLE, ITS PART OF BEING A RO0KIE.

I think you are under rating Victorino. I watched a lot of him with Philly. He is a great CFer. He plays shallow and he can go get the ball with the best that I have seen when he is healthy.

 

Ortiz is still producing power numbers. His lower average may be due to the proliferation of the shift, or maybe he is seeing a better quality of pitches because the rest of the lineup is so easy to work through. When there is no one in the lineup to hurt a pitcher, the one or 2 good hitters will not perform as well as they would in a productive lineup. The old saying is that hitting is contagious. Ortiz has not been the problem. Without him, we would be a dead last place team. As for Pedroia, his performance has hurt the lineup, but he is clearly going through some sort of adjustment. He is a great hitter, and hewill figure it out and go on a tear.

 

I can't be anymore clear about bradley's situation. I'd rather put a guy out there without a glove if he can hit until victorino comes back.

[BigPapi]

I think you are under rating Victorino. I watched a lot of him with Philly. He is a great CFer. He plays shallow and he can go get the ball with the best that I have seen when he is healthy.

 

Ortiz is still producing power numbers. His lower average may be due to the proliferation of the shift, or maybe he is seeing a better quality of pitches because the rest of the lineup is so easy to work through. When there is no one in the lineup to hurt a pitcher, the one or 2 good hitters will not perform as well as they would in a productive lineup. The old saying is that hitting is contagious. Ortiz has not been the problem. Without him, we would be a dead last place team. As for Pedroia, his performance has hurt the lineup, but he is clearly going through some sort of adjustment. He is a great hitter, and hewill figure it out and go on a tear.

 

I can't be anymore clear about bradley's situation. I'd rather put a guy out there without a glove if he can hit until victorino comes back.

 

 

I agree fully with you.

[win red sox]

When it comes to Rookies who have had success in the minors, as a guideline I use a 1000 abs. Perfect example is WMB, who has been straight garbage for about 750 abs, but I'm willing to wait another 250 abs to cast my final judgement.

[seabeachfred]

seriously? you think that XB's struggle are because he moved to 3b? Just want to point out that he went 4/9 with 2hr his first 2 games at 3b. So is it possible that he got pull happy after that? Im not head doctor or a scout, but I doubt it hasn't anything to do with him moving to 3b. Rookies struggle, and some take longer to adjust than others.

 

Bogaerts hasn't merely struggled, he has totally cratered.......5 for the last 63 at bats and about 25-30 strikeouts. He' seen that Drew hasn't done s*** for the team and his fielding hasn't been all that great. He's been slow getting to balls and he made a near critical error tonight. Xander was made to believe that he was going to be the shortstop and while it is just my opinion I'm convinced that is confidence has been greatly shaken. You simply cannot argue that 5 for 63 is merely a hiccup anymore than you can keep blowing the horn for Bradley who has shown absolutely no sign he is ready to start hitting on a consistent basis. As long as those two deadbeats are in our lineup we are going to have problem putting runs on the board.

[a700hitter]

When it comes to Rookies who have had success in the minors, as a guideline I use a 1000 abs. Perfect example is WMB, who has been straight garbage for about 750 abs, but I'm willing to wait another 250 abs to cast my final judgement.

Like with Middlebrooks, Bradley needs to learn his craft better in the minors.

[win red sox]

I think you are under rating Victorino. I watched a lot of him with Philly. He is a great CFer. He plays shallow and he can go get the ball with the best that I have seen when he is healthy.

 

Ortiz is still producing power numbers. His lower average may be due to the proliferation of the shift, or maybe he is seeing a better quality of pitches because the rest of the lineup is so easy to work through. When there is no one in the lineup to hurt a pitcher, the one or 2 good hitters will not perform as well as they would in a productive lineup. The old saying is that hitting is contagious. Ortiz has not been the problem. Without him, we would be a dead last place team. As for Pedroia, his performance has hurt the lineup, but he is clearly going through some sort of adjustment. He is a great hitter, and hewill figure it out and go on a tear.

 

I can't be anymore clear about bradley's situation. I'd rather put a guy out there without a glove if he can hit until victorino comes back.

 

I guess we just disagree and how to build a team and that's fine, but my preference is strong defense up the middle and offense on the corners. And we'll just disagree about Victorino's defense in CF, But my eyes and stats say he is a below average cf. Ortiz is having a good year for most players, but this is Ortiz's worst year since 2009. Just a hunch but I think Pedroia's wrist is bothering him and I do agree that he will eventually start hitting.

[seabeachfred]

When it comes to Rookies who have had success in the minors, as a guideline I use a 1000 abs. Perfect example is WMB, who has been straight garbage for about 750 abs, but I'm willing to wait another 250 abs to cast my final judgement.

 

If WMB is garbage what does that make your pet Bradley. Middlebrooks also has clouted 32 homers in that time span and driven in close to l00 runs. Bradley has hit about three and he strikes out as much as Will does, and he hasn't the speed to steal bases when he gets on base. What games have you been watching win?????? We need hitting; that's why we are in the toilet this season----and Bradley along with Drew are two of the major reasons for this being so. And now we have X struggling which he started doing within three games of moving to third to accommodate Farrell's love interest. Xander must be moved back to short, Holt to third and Betts to CF. Then I think you will see more runs on the board.

[win red sox]

Bogaerts hasn't merely struggled, he has totally cratered.......5 for the last 63 at bats and about 25-30 strikeouts. He' seen that Drew hasn't done s*** for the team and his fielding hasn't been all that great. He's been slow getting to balls and he made a near critical error tonight. Xander was made to believe that he was going to be the shortstop and while it is just my opinion I'm convinced that is confidence has been greatly shaken. You simply cannot argue that 5 for 63 is merely a hiccup anymore than you can keep blowing the horn for Bradley who has shown absolutely no sign he is ready to start hitting on a consistent basis. As long as those two deadbeats are in our lineup we are going to have problem putting runs on the board.

 

When you mean deadbeats do you mean XB whom is struggling at the plate and in the field, or Drew who is struggling at the plate but for the most part has played excellent defense, or Bradley who has struggled at the plate, but has shown improvement and played gold glove level defense in cf?

[win red sox]

If WMB is garbage what does that make your pet Bradley. Middlebrooks also has clouted 32 homers in that time span and driven in close to l00 runs. Bradley has hit about three and he strikes out as much as Will does, and he hasn't the speed to steal bases when he gets on base. What games have you been watching win?????? We need hitting; that's why we are in the toilet this season----and Bradley along with Drew are two of the major reasons for this being so. And now we have X struggling which he started doing within three games of moving to third to accommodate Farrell's love interest. Xander must be moved back to short, Holt to third and Betts to CF. Then I think you will see more runs on the board.

 

So if you have XB at ss,Holt at 3b, Betts in CF(who has just started playing cf a couple of weeks ago), Pedroia at 2b, Nava in RF?, Gomes in LF?, Napoli 1B, AJP at Catcher. This might be the worse defense in the history of baseball.

 

And Bradley is not my Pet, but I do enjoy watching excellent defense. As I stated before, I try not to judge rookies who have had success in the minors until the have reached 1000 abs. JBJ has been successful at every level and I expect him to make the necessary adjustment to be successful.

 

 

WMB 2012 286 pa's 288/325/509

since 2012 456 pa's 222/277/408

 

I think we can agree that at the very best WMB is average(this is being generous) at playing defense at 3b . fangraphs has WMB at .3 fwar

 

JBJ 2014 265 pa's 209/289/298

 

The defensive metrics love JBJ, in 2014 per fangraphs he's been worth .6 fwar(which is tied for 5th on the team)

 

I guess it depends on what you want. If you value obp and elite defense the obvious choice is JBJ, If you value a HR every once in awhile then you would go with WMB.

 

PS I still have hope for WMB, but to call out JBJ and support WMB is ridiculous.

[win red sox]

Like with Middlebrooks, Bradley needs to learn his craft better in the minors.

 

This is reasonable, but who else is going to play cf. They did sign Torres, I don't know if he is ready or not

[a700hitter]

This is reasonable, but who else is going to play cf. They did sign Torres, I don't know if he is ready or not

I'm pretty sure that I have answered this a few times. In the short run, Holt or Betts or anyone who can carry a bat to the plate can play CF until Victorino comes back to patrol CF.

[jd98]

So if you have XB at ss,Holt at 3b, Betts in CF(who has just started playing cf a couple of weeks ago), Pedroia at 2b, Nava in RF?, Gomes in LF?, Napoli 1B, AJP at Catcher. This might be the worse defense in the history of baseball.

 

Pedroia is gold glover, Napoli is at that level, Holt is good at 3B, Betts is unknown, Gomes is ok. Everyone talks about how bad Xander's defense was at SS, but he has looked fine to me. I've only watched about half the games, so maybe he's just bad in the games I miss, but I've only seen 1 error on a bad throw when he was rushed, and he's made several really good plays.

 

My wish is for Drew to be gone (what are they waiting for?!?!), XB at SS, Holt at 3B, Nava/Gomes in LF, Betts in RF, JBJ in CF. When/if Vic or Middlebrooks come back, JBJ can be benched.

 

Some amazing stats--including last postseason, Drew is 13-110, 4 BB, 35 K, 1HR, 5 R, 5 RBI 1 SB. He has a .339 OPS!!

 

Some more optimistic stats-- Betts 29 SB this year in minors, entire Red Sox team 27 SB.

[Jasonbay44]

I don't understand why people keep mentioning Torres. What exactly is he going to do? He's a career .240 hitter who has never hit for power besides one fluke season in which he hit 16 of his 32 career home runs. He doesn't get on base very well and he's already 36 years old. The odds of him contributing are lower than the odds we had with Grady Sizemore.

[win red sox]

I'm pretty sure that I have answered this a few times. In the short run, Holt or Betts or anyone who can carry a bat to the plate can play CF until Victorino comes back to patrol CF.

 

Maybe they should put Nava or Gomes in CF.

[Spudboy]

For anyone asking "what are they waiting for?" in regards to getting rid of Drew, maybe the Sox think that his value will be greater sometime closer to the deadline.

 

If they simply cut the guy they will be on the hook for his salary. If they wait, they may be able to lessen the financial hit and possibly get something for him.

 

Maybe I just don't understand how things work when looking to move a player. Just seems common sense to me.

[jd98]

For anyone asking "what are they waiting for?" in regards to getting rid of Drew, maybe the Sox think that his value will be greater sometime closer to the deadline.

 

If they simply cut the guy they will be on the hook for his salary. If they wait, they may be able to lessen the financial hit and possibly get something for him.

 

Well yeah, his value can only go up, since it's practically zero now. I can't see them getting any worthwhile player in return, and they would still have to pay a good bit of his salary, if anybody else even wants him. Having him on the team is just as much a waste of money as cutting him, so I don't buy that argument for keeping him, if they can't trade him. If they are that concerned about the money, they shouldn't have gave him $10 million. For now, he should only be a late inning defensive sub, and spot starter at most. I didn't really want to turn this into more Drew bashing. That was just a small part of my last post.

[yankthis]

Better to eat the salary and be done with it, than to sabotage the team economy by keeping non-producers on the field. Nobody pays to come and see Drew play. Nobody.