Is Ichiro worth signing?

[Lord Snow]

The Sox have a need in right field. Right field at Fenway is being known for being a little more challenging to handle than most right fields in baseball.

 

There are lot of options for the outfield that will seemingly be overpaid this off-season.

 

Torii Hunter is off the table. The Cody Ross negotiations aren't going anywhere.

 

Ichiro represents a low-cost option for the Sox. We all know he is an above average defender, even at age 39.

 

At the plate he has never been a great OBP or SLG guy but he showed last year with the Yankees he could still hit for average.

 

He still has decent speed. And the Red Sox seemingly need a leadoff hitter (with Jacoby likely moving to the middle of the order in 2013).

 

If Ichiro can go .300/.340/.400 I'd be okay with him batting leadoff. He wouldn't be ideal, but maybe he could bridge the gap until Jackie Bradley is ready.

 

The Sox can almost certainly get him for 1-year $5M if they guarantee him a starting job and let him bat leadoff.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's looking for 1 yr $8 mil and a starting job and there are a few teams offering him something of the sort. He sounds like he is giving the Yankees the first crack

[SoxSport]

Worth it only in NY--Yankee stadium. He can't play anywhere else anymore.

 

Only in NY can he score from 3B taking a detour into the visitor's dugout to avoid the catcher's tag.

[Spitball]

The last two years he has OPSed below .700. I hope the Red Sox let him sign with the Yankees.

[Spitball]

For their careers, Ichiro has a lower career OBP than Adam Dunn. I find that amazing. Despite Ichiro's batting averages, he has been on base at a lower rate than a guy who typically hits around .245.

 

I don't want Ichiro.

[BSN07]

Very simply no. He's not a fit in Boston. He's a much better fit for NY and I think he re-signs there.

[rjortiz]

The Sox have a need in right field. Right field at Fenway is being known for being a little more challenging to handle than most right fields in baseball.

 

There are lot of options for the outfield that will seemingly be overpaid this off-season.

 

Torii Hunter is off the table. The Cody Ross negotiations aren't going anywhere.

 

Ichiro represents a low-cost option for the Sox. We all know he is an above average defender, even at age 39.

 

At the plate he has never been a great OBP or SLG guy but he showed last year with the Yankees he could still hit for average.

 

He still has decent speed. And the Red Sox seemingly need a leadoff hitter (with Jacoby likely moving to the middle of the order in 2013).

 

 

If Ichiro can go .300/.340/.400 I'd be okay with him batting leadoff. He wouldn't be ideal, but maybe he could bridge the gap until Jackie Bradley is ready.

 

The Sox can almost certainly get him for 1-year $5M if they guarantee him a starting job and let him bat leadoff.

 

You are in love, Lord Snow.

[a700hitter]

He can still run, field and throw very well. He'd be a better RF at Fenway than Drew. He's still tough to pitch too. I think he's worth a 1 year contract.

[SoxSport]

Very simply no. He's not a fit in Boston. He's a much better fit for NY and I think he re-signs there.

 

There are a lot of ageing LHd hitters who are perfect fits in Yankee Stadium. The Yankees have half of them already.

[jacksonianmarch]

The thing in NY is that he would be a placeholder. The Yankees have 3 very talented OFers starting in Trenton (AA) this yr. Only one needs to emerge to take that spot in RF for 2014

[Spitball]

He can still run, field and throw very well. He'd be a better RF at Fenway than Drew. He's still tough to pitch too. I think he's worth a 1 year contract.

 

He has OPSed below .700 the last two seasons. I think Kalish and a number of other options can do that for far less money. I'd be pissed if the Sox wasted money on a guy who once was decent but now is just a famous name.

[jacksonianmarch]

He did hit .322 with the Yankees last yr.

[Spitball]

He did hit .322 with the Yankees last yr.

 

But, over a much larger sample size, he had a .307 OBP and .696 OPS for the year. You guys can have him. For a corner outfielder, those are not great numbers, especially at an inflated salary.

[rjortiz]

I'm not sold on Brentz, so I'd rather take Swisher at $52 million over 4.

[Lucienbel]

Very simply no. He's not a fit in Boston. He's a much better fit for NY and I think he re-signs there.

 

Agreed. I think at least for the short term he helps solve outfield problems for NY. At this very moment, it seems like the Red Sox would benefit from having some corner outfielders with pop in their bat.

[Behindenemylines]

He can still run, field and throw very well. He'd be a better RF at Fenway than Drew. He's still tough to pitch too. I think he's worth a 1 year contract.

 

On a one year contract I would take him over Swisher any day. If you can get him for one year at big $$$$ he fills RF for 2013, and by that time the kids will be ready.

[Lord Snow]

I like Ichiro in RF, Swisher at 1B, and Hamilton in LF. At a maximum the three of them will cost $50M per season.

 

Do that and your opening day starters could be:

 

1B: Swisher

2B: Pedroia

3B: Middlebrooks

SS: Iglesias

RF: Ichiro

CF: Ellsbury

LF: Hamilton

C: Salty

 

Two weak hitters in the line-up in Salty and Iglesias but Salty has the threat of 25 home run pop which means pitchers must treat him with a little more respect than your average .225 hitter.

[jung]

I doubt Salty will see opening day in a Sox uni.

[Spitball]

I like Ichiro in RF...

 

I'd rather have Kalish (or many other options) in right field. Ichiro has no power and limited on base abilities at this point. Not what is needed in a corner outfield spot.

[jung]

I think Ichiro's performance in NY has something to do with his comfort level in NY. If somebody said that we were going to get that for the 2013 season, we might go ahead and sign up for that. I am not convinced that will happen though. Plus we end up with a guy clogging a spot for a guy that we probably really....finally have to do something with....Kalish.

 

Signing up some pitchers to short term deals is one thing. We don't have any players that said pitchers would be blocking and if they help make you respectable/competitive for a period, fine. But if we have a choice between giving a player that has been waiting forever either due to injury or other factor a year to finally see what we have and blocking him further, 2013 is the year to figure that player out.

[Lord Snow]

I doubt Salty will see opening day in a Sox uni.

 

Hmm.. Cherington certainly has motivation to trade him. But what can the Sox realistically expect to get for him? I would say a quality middle reliever, but the Sox really don't need bullpen help. It's one of the few areas where there aren't any gaping holes (the closer issue can probably be solved internally by either Bard, Bailey, or Tazawa).

 

The only way I see Salty being moved is if there is an old school GM who gets overzealous because of those 25 home runs and is willing to trade one or two top 100 prospects to the Sox in exchange for Salty. Which is something that I'm not sure will happen.

[jung]

Well if not Salty then the Sox have to move Lavs. It is one or the other and I don't think it will be Lavs. Another year of watching Salty boot balls around the plate, forget that home plate is his bag to cover, give pitcher's what is very possibly the worst target in baseball and still seem incapable of calling a good game or handling the pitching staff generally may just be more than anybody can take. It will surely be more than I can take.

 

Lavs/Salty in 2013 is very likely the same kind of deal that Ichiro/Kalish is for 2013. If you are not going to give Lavs his shot this year then when? If never then move him. However that means that at least for now you are committed to Salty and for what.....he is not getting better behind the plate and what he does back there offsets those 25 HR's assuming he can even repeat that.

 

Frankly I think the only dif between them is that Lavs is younger and more likely to improve his skills behind the plate than Salty.

[Lord Snow]

Well if not Salty then the Sox have to move Lavs. It is one or the other and I don't think it will be Lavs. Another year of watching Salty boot balls around the plate, forget that home plate is his bag to cover, give pitcher's what is very possibly the worst target in baseball and still seem incapable of calling a good game or handling the pitching staff generally may just be more than anybody can take. It will surely be more than I can take.

 

Lavs/Salty in 2013 is very likely the same kind of deal that Ichiro/Kalish is for 2013. If you are not going to give Lavs his shot this year then when? If never then move him. However that means that at least for now you are committed to Salty and for what.....he is not getting better behind the plate and what he does back there offsets those 25 HR's assuming he can even repeat that.

 

Frankly I think the only dif between them is that Lavs is younger and more likely to improve his skills behind the plate than Salty.

 

Lavarnway has had major struggles at the plate in the Majors but the front office believes in him. Starting him in AAA doesn't seem like a horrible idea. Then if he gets off to a good start call him up anytime and hope he can stick in the big leagues.

 

Salty has had a pretty good SLG in his 2 full seasons in Boston, about .450 each year. So his power is definitely for real. If only Salty could get his OBP to .350 he would be such a keeper.

[jung]

Salty power is for real as long as you are willing to take 200 K's a year. K's are not all that bad out of the catchers spot but 200!!! If the guy could catch AT ALL, I would say OK....I will take his 25 HR's AND his 200 K's. But he can't catch...he can't catch his way out of a hat. I am not saying Lavs is better at this point but at least Lavs give you some hope.

 

The only reason Salty is the Sox catcher is cause the Sox do this as much about defense in the critical defensive positions on the field as they do about pitching. Both go under appreciated for big bats and that is why the Sox hardly ever compete for anything. That is why historically they fade year after year after year with those few exceptions when they are a balanced enough team to go anywhere.

 

The more interesting phenomenon is how often Fenway Nation, battered and bruised after another year of watching teams with better overall balance and better pitching slip past the Sox on their way to bigger and better things don't just raise up in revolt realizing that if we continue to accept utility infielders at SS and journeyman catchers and substandard pitching all so that we can focus on wall busters, we will continue to go nowhere.

[Lord Snow]

Okay, I totally retract what I said about Saltalamacchia's trade value.

 

The Braves just gave B.J. .255/.336/.422/.758 Upton a 5-year $75.25M contract!

 

WHAAAT?! B.J. Upton, he sucks, bad.

 

Pros: plus defense, plus speed, plus power

 

Cons: bad hitter for contact, bad patience, bad eye, below average overall at the dish

 

Now, defense and speed aren't what drive up the price on a player. So that means there should be a decent market out there for Salty, particularly for teams who lost out on Upton.

 

At the plate, Salty and BJ Upton are virtually identical.

[jung]

I would have thought BJ would have gotten a bit less than that in $$ but that does not seem like that much of an overpay. He does not K nearly as often as Salty but the point is a good one. Salty was not going to draw zippo. If they were to package him up the Sox could get something really worthwhile back.

 

Salty is (really have to squint to see it) a catcher. Anybody that can get into a squat seems to qualify at least to some degree. Plus some team will likely look at him as a catcher that can also DH some. We have one of the last of the full time dedicated DH's in Ortiz so that just does not mean anything to us. It will mean something to somebody though.

[Behindenemylines]

15 million a season for B.J. Upton. I can't see what the Braves see with this guy.

[Lord Snow]

15 million a season for B.J. Upton. I can't see what the Braves see with this guy.

 

I know what they'll be seeing a year from now, a bad contract for a player who isn't very productive.

 

For some reason GMs continue to overvalue numbers like stolen bases. As if teams win a lot of games because their players steal a lot of bases.

 

Guaranteeing $75M to this guy is a total joke, as was guaranteeing Carl Crawford $142M. They simply cannot live up to those contracts. To be worth more $15M+ per year a player needs to have at least a .360 OBP otherwise they will never be able to live up to the value of their contract, and you can quote me on that.

[jung]

No question it is an overpay. But I would be willing to bet anything that GM's would have been falling all over themselves at 5/$60 just as an example and even that is a bit of an overpay I think.

 

But my God do we have nothing to be proud of thanks to bonehead theo. Think about how hideous 7/$142 really was when two years later, Upton draws 5/$75.

[Spitball]

I don't know what Michael Bourne will sign for, but he is a better player than Upton in every area except power. The Braves would have been better off going after Bourne.