Rotation

[bubbakeg52]

I like the latest article. The article says Peavy at 3 and Kuroda at 4 and Lackey at 5. This gives Boston a playoff roster and helps the (3) 2014 AAA starting pitchers (Barnes,Webster,DeLerosa) make the post season roster (2013) and not rush them into the rotation. More inlikely I can see Lackey being traded in 2014 because of his cheap salary (1 year 15mil/2nd year league minimum).

[Behindenemylines]

I can see the Sox moving Lackey if he proves that he is healthy. So Lackey will start the season in the rotation. I think the Sox have to be looking for a top of the rotation starter. It would would be nice if it was a true number 1, but those are hard to come by and may have to settle for a middle of the rotation guy and hope that Lester returns to form.

[bubbakeg52]

Lackey in the rotation in 2013 is true. They definately need an ace. The likelyhood that Bucholz or Lester are going to break out as Ace pitchers for the future is proven as false. That's the reason 2 starters need to be added to the rotation this year.

[NativeBostonian]

I like the latest article. The article says Peavy at 3 and Kuroda at 4 and Lackey at 5. This gives Boston a playoff roster and helps the (3) 2014 AAA starting pitchers (Barnes,Webster,DeLerosa) make the post season roster (2013) and not rush them into the rotation. More inlikely I can see Lackey being traded in 2014 because of his cheap salary (1 year 15mil/2nd year league minimum).

 

That's not going to fix the rotation. The rotation problem starts at the top, not the bottom.

[kapsis21]

I like the latest article. The article says Peavy at 3 and Kuroda at 4 and Lackey at 5. This gives Boston a playoff roster and helps the (3) 2014 AAA starting pitchers (Barnes,Webster,DeLerosa) make the post season roster (2013) and not rush them into the rotation. More inlikely I can see Lackey being traded in 2014 because of his cheap salary (1 year 15mil/2nd year league minimum).

 

Peavy i say no. Anibal Sanchez.. hell yeah

[jacksonianmarch]

Peavy is gonna be expensive since he was effectively an ace this yr. Sanchez has a good track record and his performance in the POs has helped him.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If you're the Red Sox, would you trade Xander Bogaerts + 1 of Rubby De La Rosa / Allen Webster + Garin Cecchini + Doubront for David Price?

 

That's three top 100 prospects (one of which will likely be a top 15 going into next year) plus a #4, ceiling of #3 pitcher.

[a700hitter]

If you're the Red Sox, would you trade Xander Bogaerts + 1 of Rubby De La Rosa / Allen Webster + Garin Cecchini + Doubront for David Price?

 

That's three top 100 prospects (one of which will likely be a top 15 going into next year) plus a #4, ceiling of #3 pitcher.

In a heart beat.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In a heart beat.

 

I think I would too. I am trying to think about what the Yankees gave up for Pineda last year. I know it was headlined by Montero, which is essentially the equivalent of Bogaerts.

 

So, essentially the Sox could give up Bogaerts plus two more high caliber prospects, and an MLB pitcher, and get a guy who is a better pitcher but has less time left on his deal.

 

You think that's a fair deal for the Rays?

[Palodios]

If you're the Red Sox, would you trade Xander Bogaerts + 1 of Rubby De La Rosa / Allen Webster + Garin Cecchini + Doubront for David Price?

 

That's three top 100 prospects (one of which will likely be a top 15 going into next year) plus a #4, ceiling of #3 pitcher.

 

I was actually thinking the same thing today. David Price is perhaps the best arm available, and he'll cost significantly less than Felix Hernandez.

 

Unfortunately, the Red Sox don't match up very well with the Rays. They'll have to overpay significantly because they're in the same division, for one. But the biggest problem is that the many of the Red Sox's highest ceiling players will end up at the same position at Longoria Cecchini/Bogarts/Middlebrooks.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I was actually thinking the same thing today. David Price is perhaps the best arm available, and he'll cost significantly less than Felix Hernandez.

 

Unfortunately, the Red Sox don't match up very well with the Rays. They'll have to overpay significantly because they're in the same division, for one. But the biggest problem is that the many of the Red Sox's highest ceiling players will end up at the same position at Longoria Cecchini/Bogarts/Middlebrooks.

 

Well, Bogaerts can play SS for at least his first few years while he fills out, and by the time he's needing to move to 3B, Longoria will be gone for a higher bidder.

 

Maybe you go with Swihart rather than Cecchini, since Cecchini will be coming up as a 3B as well. That's a good point.

 

Or, hell, would you go Bogaerts + Bradley + De La Rosa for Price? And, if need be, Doubront?

 

I'd be very reluctant to give up Bogaerts and Bradley, but Price would probably be worth it.

[jung]

I don't think the Sox would give up Bradley cause that would play right into Boras' hands. I do think they could go Bogaerts+DeLaRosa + Doubront and maybe one other prospect or player of like kind to Bradley. I don't think Bradley is going anywhere.

[Behindenemylines]

I like Price and his name has been mentioned as possibly being moved, but the Rays aren't trading him to someone inside their division. The only way he ever ends up in Boston or with the $pankees is as a FA and that would cost big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Palodios]

I'd be very reluctant to give up Bogaerts and Bradley, but Price would probably be worth it.

 

How about a three-team trade of Ellsbury/Doubront/Swihart?

I would love to be able to figure out exactly what kind of prospects Ellsbury is worth-- his value in fantasy trades seems to be pretty inconsistent.

 

For example, if he does end up equaling two top-100 prospects, the Rays get three high ceiling prospects, and a solid pitcher in Doubront who has a 3.10 ERA at Tropicana field. The Red Sox lose Swihart, but otherwise no huge long term loss, and the third team gets an MVP-when-healthy.

[jung]

Normally I would say trading a pitcher that good within the division when the Rays are still basically able to kick ass and take names would be hard to envision. But nothing the Rays do in the Trop seems to do anything to move the attendance numbers. Maybe it is such a horrible place to go see baseball that even Rays fans don't want to go. Maybe the lack of offense turns people off. I know if my home team regularly made life miserable for teams with monster payrolls and played decent baseball that would be enough for me.

 

Since the Rays seem to have so much to do to move the attendance numbers...maybe as much as move the heck out of the Trop as well as generating more offense, I can see them willing to part with Price in the division.

 

The other thing ya' gotta' like about Price is that unlike so many other guys that the Sox have bent over for, Price is the real deal. He is a proven monster already pitching in the AL East. The AL East may not at the moment still be the strongest division in baseball but it is still pretty tough especially on pitchers (many heavy hitters and hitters ballparks) and you still have two teams in the division that can afford to toss a heck of a lotta' money around.

[Palodios]

Normally I would say trading a pitcher that good within the division when the Rays are still basically able to kick ass and take names would be hard to envision. But nothing the Rays do in the Trop seems to do anything to move the attendance numbers. Maybe it is such a horrible place to go see baseball that even Rays fans don't want to go. Maybe the lack of offense turns people off.

 

I bring this up frequently, but Florida is simply oversaturated with sports teams. They have 2-3 teams for every major sport, plus good NCAA teams, plus major golf/tennis events. Not to mention Spring Training. Their demographics heavily favor out-of-staters who have their own baseball teams. And they do have this thing called the beach. The Rays will never be a big sports franchise.

[jung]

Would love to get a look at the "book" that was used to draw investment dollars for that franchise. All of those issues you raise Pal would seem to have been there way in advance of the Rays even when they were a germ of an idea for somebody.

 

Hard to see where else in the Southeast they could go if they wanted to stay somewhere in the Southeast. I have to believe they would have to get the heck outta' there. At any rate it would suggest to me that the Sox could pry Price away.

[jacksonianmarch]

I bring this up frequently, but Florida is simply oversaturated with sports teams. They have 2-3 teams for every major sport, plus good NCAA teams, plus major golf/tennis events. Not to mention Spring Training. Their demographics heavily favor out-of-staters who have their own baseball teams. And they do have this thing called the beach. The Rays will never be a big sports franchise.

 

The Rays need to move to Vegas

[rjortiz]

The Rays need to move to Tampa.

[jung]

The Rays need to move to Tampa.

 

Why you thinkin' Tampa? I have always thought of that as a pretty sleepy community over there.

[Plumpamania]

I say the Rays move to OKC.

[Behindenemylines]

Now that the Hot Stove season is underway things should get interesting. Sox are in need of starting pitching help. If a true number one is almost impossible to get then adding a quality middle of the order arm is a must. What does anyone think of Anibal Sanchez? He pitched pretty good in the playoffs and would be another quality arm without breaking the bank.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm very hesitant on acquiring Anibal Sanchez. He has a good career ERA, but he's pitched almost exclusively in the NL.

 

I'm always hesitant to acquire a guy who has only had mediocre success in the NL. I see Sanchez as another Lackey (2010 Lackey, not 2011). A guy who will throw around 200 IP to a 4.2-4.5 ERA in the AL East.

[jung]

The way hitting is regressing in the AL, I for one am no longer as reluctant to bring pitchers across from the NL. At one point I was just livid at Red Sox hitters for the regression I was seeing but eventually had to admit that this is more an AL thing than a Red Sox thing cause I saw the same habits in other hitters on other AL Teams.

 

We now have hitters that:

-swing at anything that looks like it might be a strike with an 0-0 count...a travesty of hitting

-do not look for specific pitches in specific locations even when the count favors doing so

-do not protect with two strikes

-insist on continuing to try to pull regardless of whether it is right for the count or the game situation

-can't go the other way to save their skin

-can't lay down a successful bunt if their life depended on it

 

Sanchez may or may not be right for the Red Sox but it is high team we pulled our heads out of the sand and realized that our hitters are now simply making it to easy in the AL East and in the AL generally. I would not fear bringing a guy over here from the NL at this point.

[Palodios]

I'm very hesitant on acquiring Anibal Sanchez. He has a good career ERA, but he's pitched almost exclusively in the NL.

 

This concern comes up frequently. The problem is, there are limited markets where Fenway-appropriate pitchers can come from.

 

The National League is mostly out, with the exception of a select few teams with very hitter friendly parks like Philly and Colorado.

The AL West is mostly out because Seattle/LAA/Oakland are very pitcher friendly parks.

The AL East is tough, because no one is going to trade to the Red Sox without overpaying.

 

It seems to me like the only logical place to pull players from is the AL Central. Problem is, the AL East champions are the only team in that division with good pitching.

 

So, in conclusion, we have all the more reason to sign Jake Peavy.

[Palodios]

Also, Gavin Floyd is going to turn out to be the bargain of the offseason-- calling it now.

[jung]

You guys are worried about the AL East that was not the AL East that is. The AL East is no longer even the strongest division in the AL. The AL and most particularly the AL East has power hitting for offense but that is all it has. All pitchers need to do with teams that only have power hitting to generate offense is treat them like a boxer would treat a slugger in a prize fight. Get inside him. Don't let him extend his arms and beat him to the punch. Once pitchers really figure out what is going on these days in the AL East we are going to be sitting around wondering what the heck happened to our vaunted AL East.

 

As for the AL East champs....if they could resurrect the teams of Bernie Williams and Paul Oneill, they would beat this year's AL East champs like the mangy curs that they truly are, as if the have not already proven to be a bunch of mangy curs.

[Palodios]

You guys are worried about the AL East that was not the AL East that is. The AL East is no longer even the strongest division in the AL. The AL and most particularly the AL East has power hitting for offense but that is all it has. All pitchers need to do with teams that only have power hitting to generate offense is treat them like a boxer would treat a slugger in a prize fight. Get inside him. Don't let him extend his arms and beat him to the punch. Once pitchers really figure out what is going on these days in the AL East we are going to be sitting around wondering what the heck happened to our vaunted AL East.

 

As for the AL East champs....if they could resurrect the teams of Bernie Williams and Paul Oneill, they would beat this year's AL East champs like the mangy curs that they truly are, as if the have not already proven to be a bunch of mangy curs.

 

If this is true, doesn't that also point to Peavy as the must-have guy on the free agent market?

[jung]

I like Peavy alot. There are some guys I like better but I just don't think the Sox can get them. Peavy might be the best of the guys that the Sox can realistically get their hands on. If the difference between Peavy and Sanchez is $22-$24M vs $8-$10M I could see that difference in money making Sanchez kinda' appealing but Peavy is probably already at the top of his earnings per year at 31 years old. I don't know what Sanchez would want but the closer that number got to Peavy money the less interested I would be in Sanchez and the more appealing Peavy would be.

 

Heck Peavy and Sanchez both would not be a terrible idea if in fact Sanchez money is half Peavy money.

 

They are both RH pitchers for one thing and I worry about the Sox getting to many LH pitchers in the rotation pitching in Fenway. I think we keep Lester and hope that one of the benefits we get outta' Farrell is a better shot at a Lester turnaround.

 

While I would not want the Sox to spend their trade money like drunken sailors pitching is valuable commodity. Peavy is a proven guy and at a guess Sanchez money might just be half Peavy money. Heck if that is the case, both of then together would be about what the Yanks are about to pay ARod....I don't think I am ever going to tire of saying that. Yanks paying ARod $30M per year....has a nice ring to it doesn't it.

[Palodios]

Sanchez is probably going to cost more than Peavy. The White Sox aren't willing to pay 15 million for him (subtracting the buyout). He's had a lot of bad years lately. Sanchez is actually more proven right now, and looking for 60-100 million, which went up after good playoff performance.