The Starting Pitching Free Agency Thread

[Station 13]

Too many people are ignoring Rubby De La Rosa.

 

He's going to open a lot of eyes. And he will be in the rotation next season.

 

Don't count on it. He threw 1.1 inning in 2012. He need a lot of time for rehab starts.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Jimmy Piersall.

So, one.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Don't count on it. He threw 1.1 inning in 2012. He need a lot of time for rehab starts.

 

What?? He's got an entire offseason for rehab starts. He's like 18 months removed from TJS. That makes no sense.

[Station 13]

What?? He's got an entire offseason for rehab starts. He's like 18 months removed from TJS. That makes no sense.

 

He had TJS 8.2011

[mvp 78]

Too many people are ignoring Rubby De La Rosa.

 

He's going to open a lot of eyes. And he will be in the rotation next season.

 

Heard he'll wind up in the pen.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He had TJS 8.2011

 

Exactly. So ST 2013 will be 18 months. Not to mention he was rehabbing all last season too.

 

His TJS will have zero effect on him in terms of being ready for 2013.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Heard he'll wind up in the pen.

 

Where?!?

 

He posted a 3.88 ERA as a starter when he was 22. He sustains upper 90's in the late innings. Keith Law said he's at least a #2 and likely an ace with a slight modification of his arm slot on his slider.

 

Why would he ever be a bullpen guy??

[Station 13]

Exactly. So ST 2013 will be 18 months. Not to mention he was rehabbing all last season too.

 

His TJS will have zero effect on him in terms of being ready for 2013.

 

I'm sure he will begin the year in the minors.

[a700hitter]

So, one.

That's your answer. You said that you would give me an answer. I guess you were just being snarky. What else is new. Here's a question for you. How many players have missed time from baseball due to an anxiety or orther mental disorder who came back to be very successful reliable players for several years who relapsed to miss substantial time years later? Here's another question for you. Do you know how many major league players are under medical treatment for conditions such as ADD, ADHD, OCD, depression etc. ? I know there are enough that their medications are excepted from baseballs banned substance program if they have a prescription for treatment. There are strict privacy laws in place so we would not know. We wouldn't know if any Red Sox have been or are currently treated for any of those conditions.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I've heard that his floor is a late inning stud. That's the closest to him outright being in the bullpen that I've ever heard.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm sure he will begin the year in the minors.

 

Why?? He'll be 24 years old. He's already started in the MLB and had success.

 

Why would we ever keep him in AAA??

[a700hitter]

Piersall's problems were characterized then as a nervous breakdown. Never as "anxiety disorder" that I can recall. Maybe it was. Royce White, the NBA rookie, has anxiety disorder--a fear of flying and being confronted with new challenges (playing in the NBA, for example).

 

It's the kind of thing you want to stay away from. Especially in the Northeast. The Boston and NY media will put Greinke under a microscope and eat him alive.

I believe that Piersall was diagnosed as a manic depressive-- a condition that is much more difficult to manage than an anxiety disorder which may never recur after treatment. He had a fairly extensive career with a fair bit of success, most of it in Boston.

[Station 13]

Why?? He'll be 24 years old. He's already started in the MLB and had success.

 

Why would we ever keep him in AAA??

 

Because he threw 1.1 inning in 2012, and he need inning and actually show he could get it done in the minors.

[jacksonianmarch]

Maybe I'm biased, but people on medication are relatively stable.

 

Maybe you are completely uninformed, which you are.

[jacksonianmarch]

Where?!?

 

He posted a 3.88 ERA as a starter when he was 22. He sustains upper 90's in the late innings. Keith Law said he's at least a #2 and likely an ace with a slight modification of his arm slot on his slider.

 

Why would he ever be a bullpen guy??

 

Cause he is a two pitch pitcher with no innings behind him and a penchant to get very wild.

[Station 13]

he's a BP arm with a 97-100 sinker.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Cause he is a two pitch pitcher with no innings behind him and a penchant to get very wild.

 

First off, you act like he has a 5-6 BB/9. His career BB/9 in the minors was 4.0. That's not great, but it's not nearly enough to throw him in the bullpen.

 

Second, he's a two pitch pitcher? I'm sorry, he's got an elite FB, an above average CH, and a SL that only needs work on his arm slot, which is an extremely easy fix. How is that a 2 pitch pitcher? 4 sm, 2 sm, CH, SL. That's 4 pitches right there.

 

And he had 61 innings in 2011, as a 22 year old.

 

Your reasoning is completely unjustified and, to be honest, a bit ignorant because you clearly have not done any research on this kid other than having a glance at a baseball reference page.

[SoxFanForsyth]

he's a BP arm with a 97-100 sinker.

 

Here's Keith Law's take. You know, a professional who gets paid to scout these players:

 

Rubby de la Rosa blew up as a prospect before blowing out entirely back in 2011, but he's back from Tommy John surgery and, by 2013, should be able to pick up where he left off when his elbow snapped. He has touched 100 mph as a starter and sits comfortably in the mid-to-upper 90s, offsetting it with an above-average changeup with good fading action in the mid-80s, and, before the surgery, could throw both pitches for strikes. His slider is hard but really short, 82-86, but it doesn't have a lot of tilt to it because he tends to get on top of the pitch, often coming out higher than he does on his fastball; his curveball, a pitch he seldom throws, is in the mid-70s, breaking down but without tight rotation.

 

Even an average slider would give him No. 1 or No. 2 starter potential, and I think he can get there if he can release it from a slightly lower spot, closer to where he releases the fastball. It's a huge arm in any role, and, as long as he's healthy, he should be able to start.

[jacksonianmarch]

He has a plus fastball and a plus slider at times. His change and curve, from what I have read, are way behind his FB and slider. His walk rate was over 4.5 in 2011 and effectively through his entire minor league career. He never played in AAA and wasnt great in his initial taste of the bigs. He has an IP max in the minors of 110IP in 2010. In 2011, he barely broke 100IP and he lost almost all of 2012 due to elbow surgery.

 

So, as of right now, he looks like a guy with 2 swing and miss pitches who has trouble locating, hasnt really pitched in a yr and hasnt built up his arm strength (BULLPEN). If he ends up in Boston at the start of next yr, it will be in relief, or it will be a pretty stupid adventure. He needs AAA time to build arm strength and work on his command and his final 2 pitches. If he gets his walk rate down, can command his change and curve and solidify that slider, then he projects well in a rotation

[jacksonianmarch]

Here's Keith Law's take. You know, a professional who gets paid to scout these players:

 

Rubby de la Rosa blew up as a prospect before blowing out entirely back in 2011, but he's back from Tommy John surgery and, by 2013, should be able to pick up where he left off when his elbow snapped. He has touched 100 mph as a starter and sits comfortably in the mid-to-upper 90s, offsetting it with an above-average changeup with good fading action in the mid-80s, and, before the surgery, could throw both pitches for strikes. His slider is hard but really short, 82-86, but it doesn't have a lot of tilt to it because he tends to get on top of the pitch, often coming out higher than he does on his fastball; his curveball, a pitch he seldom throws, is in the mid-70s, breaking down but without tight rotation.

 

Even an average slider would give him No. 1 or No. 2 starter potential, and I think he can get there if he can release it from a slightly lower spot, closer to where he releases the fastball. It's a huge arm in any role, and, as long as he's healthy, he should be able to start.

 

you just quoted Keith Law. You are aware of this, right?

[rjortiz]

Piersall's problems were characterized then as a nervous breakdown. Never as "anxiety disorder" that I can recall. Maybe it was. Royce White, the NBA rookie, has anxiety disorder--a fear of flying and being confronted with new challenges (playing in the NBA, for example).

 

It's the kind of thing you want to stay away from. Especially in the Northeast. The Boston and NY media will put Greinke under a microscope and eat him alive.

 

Piersall has bipolar disorder, and the "nervous breakdown" is called a manic episode.

[jacksonianmarch]

Piersall has bipolar disorder, and the "nervous breakdown" is called a manic episode.

 

or it could have been a bout with depression. Or, it could have been a bout of anxiety, which is common in people with concomitant psychiatric disease. Where did you get your medical degree?

[SoxFanForsyth]

you just quoted Keith Law. You are aware of this, right?

 

Yes. Who is very conservative in terms of ranking prospects, especially their upside.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes. Who is very conservative in terms of ranking prospects, especially their upside.

 

He's not conservative, he is typically flat out wrong. And you can usually take his reports and read them exactly backwards in terms of projection

[rjortiz]

That's your answer. You said that you would give me an answer. I guess you were just being snarky. What else is new. Here's a question for you. How many players have missed time from baseball due to an anxiety or orther mental disorder who came back to be very successful reliable players for several years who relapsed to miss substantial time years later? Here's another question for you. Do you know how many major league players are under medical treatment for conditions such as ADD, ADHD, OCD, depression etc. ? I know there are enough that their medications are excepted from baseballs banned substance program if they have a prescription for treatment. There are strict privacy laws in place so we would not know. We wouldn't know if any Red Sox have been or are currently treated for any of those conditions.

 

Shane Victorino has ADHD.

 

Not a700hitter, but the rest of you are stuck in the f***ing Stone Age. People with mental illness can be treated with therapy and medication. It's not like he's off medication.

[rjortiz]

or it could have been a bout with depression. Or, it could have been a bout of anxiety, which is common in people with concomitant psychiatric disease. Where did you get your medical degree?

 

I have bipolar disorder. I don't need a medical degree.

[jacksonianmarch]

Shane Victorino has ADHD.

 

Not a700hitter, but the rest of you are stuck in the f***ing Stone Age. People with mental illness can be treated with therapy and medication. It's not like he's off medication.

 

They most certainly can be treated. And those that are treated and remain stable are non-issues. Those who lose full season's due to their mental illnesses, OTOH, are a different story. Hamilton nearly lost his career. Greinke lost a full season. You want to stoke a guy's mental illness? Put them in Boston

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's not conservative, he is typically flat out wrong. And you can usually take his reports and read them exactly backwards in terms of projection

 

This is absolutely false. He's got a good track record. Every analyst is going to get a few wrong, but he's got a much better track record than most.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is absolutely false. He's got a good track record. Every analyst is going to get a few wrong, but he's got a much better track record than most.

 

No, he doesnt. He typically goes off information that is second hand and old, yet presents it as if he was there last week. He frequently gets easily researched information wrong (like their handedness) and has done some scouting of the yankees prospects and had their pitches thrown completely wrong. And then when presented with how wrong he is, he gets all uppity about the fact that he is a scout. He's f***ing horrible

[SoxFanForsyth]

No, he doesnt. He typically goes off information that is second hand and old, yet presents it as if he was there last week. He frequently gets easily researched information wrong (like their handedness) and has done some scouting of the yankees prospects and had their pitches thrown completely wrong. And then when presented with how wrong he is, he gets all uppity about the fact that he is a scout. He's f***ing horrible

 

Sounds like you had 1 bad experience with him and are writing him off.

 

He's a much, much better scout than you give him credit for.

 

But if you don't like that, I'm sure you think Fangraphs is s***** too, because FG loves De La Rosa as well. Here's their write up. You'll like the bit in bold.

 

The key to the deal is de la Rosa. A hard-throwing native of the Dominican Republic, just 23 years old, he has the ceiling of a No. 2 starter. Only his lack of consistent command and control keep the No. 1 label from being adhered to de la Rosa. There are also some concerns over the durability of the hurler who underwent Tommy John surgery during the 2011 season. He doesn’t have the largest frame and puts a lot of strain on his body by reaching triple-digits with his fastball. His secondary pitches – a changeup and slider – both showed a lot of potential pre-surgery but he’s made just five official appearances since returning from the disable list.

 

Our very own in-house scout Mike Newman had these glowing words to say about the right-hander after seeing him pitch live:

 

“…De La Rosa’s fastball was in a different league than any I’d seen previously… the one 98 MPH fastball he located belt high on the inner half is seared into my scouting mind as it bored down and in on a right handed hitter to devastating effect. It was the single most dominant pitch I’ve seen live…”

 

Hm. That's some pretty high praise.