7/21 vs Blue Jays

[jung]

have i overestimated this team?? even with their healthy players, they still are terrible. this is depressing

 

I am afraid so.

 

Getting those players back was not going to and has not changed what the Sox do not do and this bunch is defined by what they do not do. It is embarrassing to see the level to which they are being outplayed across the board.

 

Yes the most significant issue is the starting pitching but the lack of a concerted identifiable "team" offensive effort is remarkable in its complete absence. It is a brute force offense with runs completely derived from the completely independent hitting efforts of its members. That is exactly why they can so often get three hits in a row and score no runs while its opponents can often score runs without getting a single hit. The difference is so stark at this point that it cannot be denied although I suppose they can ignore it. I certainly have yet to see any effort to change it.

 

To say nothing of its defense which so often gives the opponent extra outs to play with.

[example1]

Good thing Ellsbury had a planned day off today. I would hate for the Sox to appear like they care about winning. He really couldn't manage the workload of 4 ABs, a few sprints and maybe a play or three in the OF? Jesus, what the f***?

[mvp 78]

I think the way they changed managers and all that beer-chicken stuff has damaged this team--more than people realized. The confidence and intensity may not be there for the holdovers from last year.

 

Needed a manager like Sveum who'd hold players accountable (i.e. sitting starters like Castro when they are pulling their weight).

[SemperFi Sox]

Needed a manager like Sveum who'd hold players accountable (i.e. sitting starters like Castro when they are pulling their weight).

 

I've never seen him speak, guy has push over written all over him. LL's guy was Valentine even though he was a horrible fit.

[Station 13]

f*** everything.

 

Consistently played half awake.

[SemperFi Sox]

Good thing Ellsbury had a planned day off today. I would hate for the Sox to appear like they care about winning. He really couldn't manage the workload of 4 ABs' date=' a few sprints and maybe a play or three in the OF? Jesus, what the f***?[/quote']

 

3 months off isn't enough rest time duh.

[wyo-sox]

Needed a manager like Sveum who'd hold players accountable (i.e. sitting starters like Castro when they are pulling their weight).

 

The players have to be willing to be held accountable, I mean was Sveum going to put a gun to their heads? There is a reason other candidates were taking their names out of the hot. I suspect word got out this core group was a bunch of divas all out for #1.

[SemperFi Sox]

How about someone breaking a f***ing bat over their knee, a little emotion would be nice for f*** sake.

[VA Sox Fan]

I'm beyond sad.

[SemperFi Sox]

We cannot win with this collection of players, hopefully we'll do as bad as expected in the next week or so and ownership agrees to sell of some pieces.

[SemperFi Sox]

2 nights in a row offense has done jack s*** against 2 scrub pitchers. Rock bottom, chance to rise above being a mediocre team and get a winning streak going and they fall on their face as usual.

[mvp 78]

I'm beyond sad.

 

[SemperFi Sox]

I still don't f***ing understand why they gave Jacoby an off day. NOT LIKE WE'RE IN DESPERATE NEED OF WINS. my god. Like Cafardo said, they are beating themselves by not having him in there.

[redsoxbeatz]

Where can I find these stats:

 

Record when opponent scores first

 

Average runs scored when opponents score first

[jung]

What is disappointing is that it should be clear by now that nobody either in management or as a player has stepped forward and forced this bunch of idiots to recognize that their complete lack of team play is so clearly evident and so clearly damaging. All of this rah rah crap shredding jerseys and tossing gatorade after a regular season win (give me a break) is a facade. They don't play as a team. They don't help each other on the field, where it counts. If a guy comes to the plate in a situation where he needs to hit behind the runner but he likes to pull...guess what he is doing. He is going to try to pull regardless of whether or not he even gets a pitch he can pull.

 

This so called team has so few guys that come to the plate intending to try to improve the "teams" prospects to score. Most of these guys come to the plate looking to do what they want to do and if it so happens that the Sox can score off of that ....fine. Nava tries, Pedey tries, Ells tries, Ciriaco tries and Ortiz tries. Shop will try although he does not have much talent to work with. Every single other guy that comes to the plate could give a rats ass about what the team needs at that specific point in the game.

 

Aviles is a joke in this particular regard. Aviles won't even waste pitches when he can't pull the ball. Aviles will try to pull balls that can't be pulled. Agons is a joke in this regard. Even Ross for all we like about him is a dead pull hitter and really does not have a way to do much else nor does he try to do much else. WMB may change cause he is young but he simply does what he wants to do at the plate regardless of what the team needs at any given time in the game.

 

The guys I mentioned early on are all they have for guys that actually will try to make plate appearances within a team offensive effort or concept but they are simply overwhelmed by the number of guys that don't and won't.

 

And this lack of a team offensive concept is not this team's biggest problem. Starting pitching is this team's biggest problem.

 

This series with the Jays may have cost them more than they know. If I were the FO, I would not lift a finger to help this bunch. I would not spend a single prospect to get a Garza or anybody else for that matter as they will need a complete metamorphosis at least in my view. We are seeing what it means to be a bunch of talented ballplayers that do not play baseball as a team.

[SoxSport]

I didn't mean to compare Sveum and Valentine. I think the process is what LL/Henry screwed up.

The public vetting and the second guessing.

 

It isn't clear to me where the FO stops and Valentine starts. I don't know who is making the personnel decisions on the field. Plus they have a lot of coaches who Valentine didn't hire. You wonder how all this plays out with the players. From the outside, it looks confusing.

[redsoxbeatz]

Where can I find these stats:

 

Record when opponent scores first

 

Average runs scored when opponents score first

[jung]

As confusing as it appears it also appears that nobody steps forward. Nobody acknowledges what is going on and the seats at Fenway are now so full of Sweet Caroline singing....wave making loons that would not know a hit and run from a run and hit that they blissfully sit there happy for the "Fenway Experience".

 

Nobody says anything. God forbid we should bruise some egos.

 

It is without question the most bizarre sports dynamic I have ever witnessed. No disrespect to our forum members that attend. But there are far to few of us and way to many of them. The point being I am not sure that management will ever be compelled to clean this mess up.

 

That team deserved to be booed off the field tonight and last night....booed off the field...driven from the field by a crescendo of boos. Did you hear any? I didn't.

 

V apparently thinks he is on a short leash. If I were him and I cannot believe he does not see what I see....I would go all in and finally tell this bunch what it is and what it is not....cause this is going to get so ugly by year end that his job is going to be lost anyway. They aren't going to win one of the WC spots. They are going to fall completely apart unless there is a drastic change in the way they play day in and day out.

 

As a team they act like fans. It is OK for the folks that have wanted to see the best in these guys to hold onto that view...hey we are fans...we are entitled to either take a more stark view maybe like mine or a more optimistic view. But they can't or at least they should not. If somebody is now going to tell me that they are just going to blissfully continue like this.....man I don't know what to say to that. I would only have one thing actually to say to that....JH, sell the team or clean that stench out from top to bottom starting with s***-heads like Beckett that don't want to be here any longer.

[jung]

I'm beyond sad.

 

Me also VA....me also.

[a700hitter]

How many months did Ells have off? I want that beast in the lineup every night.

Ridiculous that he needs to rest because he missed so much time.

[a700hitter]

Good thing Ellsbury had a planned day off today. I would hate for the Sox to appear like they care about winning. He really couldn't manage the workload of 4 ABs' date=' a few sprints and maybe a play or three in the OF? Jesus, what the f***?[/quote']Are you starting to agree with me that today's players are generally pampered princesses who don't give a s*** about the team or the fans?

[a700hitter]

Sweet Caroline should not be played when the team is losing. It drives me crazy when the team is losing and air-headed people are singing that stupid song to each other. It is a ridiculous song at a ballgame under any circumstances, but it is grating when we are losing.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Hey! I love that song! It's a little creepy when you realize that he wrote it about a girl who was like 11 years old at the time, but still, I love that song!

[a700hitter]

Hey! I love that song! It's a little creepy when you realize that he wrote it about a girl who was like 11 years old at the time' date=' but still, I love that song![/quote']Okay, but it is just a stupid 8th inning tradition.

[jung]

Okay, but it is just a stupid 8th inning tradition.

 

It is and it seems so ridiculous outside of the context of the year the "tradition" originated. Whether it ever should have started is one thing but in my view it should have died at the end of that season.

 

I don't know which is worse...Gatorade baths to celebrate a regular season win (geez act like you have been there once) or the wave and Sweet Caroline on nights when they are getting their heads handed to them by last place teams.

[example1]

Are you starting to agree with me that today's players are generally pampered princesses who don't give a s*** about the team or the fans?

 

I don't think I disagree, though I think there are some players who contradict what you are saying here. I think that Ellsbury needing a day off here should be getting as much negative attention as Beckett needing to skip a start did a few months ago. Perhaps the amount of negative attention it yields should be lower (and should have been for Beckett too) but I think it is absurd and can't think of a single f***ing reason.

 

I defended the idea that Ellsbury needed time to rehab and to come up at near full-strength. However, it just doesn't make sense that they would have played him in all these minor league games only to sit him now. Frankly it doesn't make sense that they would sit him at all, because he's not going to be with the team after 2013 and his ability to be fully 100% is mostly about signing a big contract, not helping the team.

 

It would make a lot more sense to me if they did this with Pedroia or even Crawford, both of whom have committed to being Red Sox beyond next year. But Ellsbury is essentially a lame duck and should be playing every single day to justify the huge contract he will get that takes him away from Boston.

 

Or they should just trade his ass. I love watching him play but damn...

[a700hitter]

I don't think I disagree, though I think there are some players who contradict what you are saying here. I think that Ellsbury needing a day off here should be getting as much negative attention as Beckett needing to skip a start did a few months ago. Perhaps the amount of negative attention it yields should be lower (and should have been for Beckett too) but I think it is absurd and can't think of a single f***ing reason.

 

I defended the idea that Ellsbury needed time to rehab and to come up at near full-strength. However, it just doesn't make sense that they would have played him in all these minor league games only to sit him now. Frankly it doesn't make sense that they would sit him at all, because he's not going to be with the team after 2013 and his ability to be fully 100% is mostly about signing a big contract, not helping the team.

 

It would make a lot more sense to me if they did this with Pedroia or even Crawford, both of whom have committed to being Red Sox beyond next year. But Ellsbury is essentially a lame duck and should be playing every single day to justify the huge contract he will get that takes him away from Boston.

 

Or they should just trade his ass. I love watching him play but damn...

I share your outrage and disappointment. It makes no sense to me.

[jung]

Sitting Ells is to me just an indication of how far any hint of respect for the fans goes. Management couldn't care less....the players clearly couldn't care less.

 

So they just get their heads handed them AGAIN by Laffey in a game that I think they should have approached like they had to have. Instead they just laid down and died like the dogs they are.

 

So what happens next. After blowing that game, instead of putting the best team on the field in an effort to secure the second game of the three game set and thereby preserving the possibility of at least taking two out of three in a series they could have swept (as the yanks just did) they REST Ells.

 

I give up. They should blow up the entire stinking wretched mess from the very top to the very bottom....there should be a way to impeach JH if he won't leave voluntarily before these bums turn one of the jeweled crowns of baseball into a lousy tin hat laying in the gutter....painted pink of course.

[SemperFi Sox]

Sweet Caroline should not be played when the team is losing. It drives me crazy when the team is losing and air-headed people are singing that stupid song to each other. It is a ridiculous song at a ballgame under any circumstances' date=' but it is grating when we are losing.[/quote']

 

It shouldn't be played at all, it's embarrassing.

[Brennan]

Sitting Ells is to me just an indication of how far any hint of respect for the fans goes. Management couldn't care less....the players clearly couldn't care less.

 

So they just get their heads handed them AGAIN by Laffey in a game that I think they should have approached like they had to have. Instead they just laid down and died like the dogs they are.

 

So what happens next. After blowing that game, instead of putting the best team on the field in an effort to secure the second game of the three game set and thereby preserving the possibility of at least taking two out of three in a series they could have swept (as the yanks just did) they REST Ells.

 

I give up. They should blow up the entire stinking wretched mess from the very top to the very bottom....there should be a way to impeach JH if he won't leave voluntarily before these bums turn one of the jeweled crowns of baseball into a lousy tin hat laying in the gutter....painted pink of course.

 

 

 

 

How come when I say this stuff I get threatened with being banned?

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say that you have some real literary skills, I've seen it in alot of your posts.