2012 Injuries and Updates

[SoxFanForsyth]

Valencia has a .522 OPS this year.

 

Meanwhile, an actual prospect (Iglesias) is just sitting in Pawtucket because Aviles is just too good for him to come up. Heaven forbid this team moves Aviles out of SS. His glove is just so much better than Iglesias's that it would be a ridiculous move.

 

Yes, yes. Let's instead call up Valencia and keep our defensive wizard down in Pawtucket. So freaking stupid.

[SCM33]

Valencia has a .522 OPS this year.

 

Meanwhile, an actual prospect (Iglesias) is just sitting in Pawtucket because Aviles is just too good for him to come up. Heaven forbid this team moves Aviles out of SS. His glove is just so much better than Iglesias's that it would be a ridiculous move.

 

Yes, yes. Let's instead call up Valencia and keep our defensive wizard down in Pawtucket. So freaking stupid.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=iglesi001jos

 

Iglesias isnt much better. Iglesias is a backup infielder at best. He is Joey Cora with a better glove.

 

He will never be a big league hitter. His slugging is lower than his OB%.....do you know how bad of an offensive player you had to be to have that happen?

 

People talked about Darnell McDonald like he was the worst offensive baseball player ever. He slugged .369 with an .309 OBP. Iglesias is slugging .289 with an OB% of .301........and even with that, we are comparing AAA to MLB. He is actually WORSE than Darnell Mcdonald. He sucks.

[SoxFanForsyth]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=iglesi001jos

 

Iglesias isnt much better. Iglesias is a backup infielder at best. He is Joey Cora with a better glove.

 

He will never be a big league hitter. His slugging is lower than his OB%.....do you know how bad of an offensive player you had to be to have that happen?

 

Like, Danny Valencia bad?

 

To me, there is a threshold of complete suckage where, if you're not over this threshold, you're all lumped together. In terms of OPS, I peg it around a .675. If you're a sub .675 OPS player, you just absolutely suck at hitting. Period. I don't care if you're a .674 OPS guy or a .580 OPS guy. You're the same to me. You're not going to produce, plain and simple, so I have zero expectations from you.

 

Thus, I think that, even though Aviles's OPS may be 80-90 points higher than Iglesias's, you're still getting around zero production from him. Iglesias's defense is significantly, significantly better than Aviles's, so I say go with the glove if you're going to have an auto out at the plate everytime.

[SCM33]

Replacing a bad option with a worse one isn't a good solution.

 

Iglesias will never be a good solution, so what does it matter?

 

Valencia doesn't make them better, but neither does Iglesias.....nor does sticking with Aviles.

 

If you want a solution at SS, they need to find one other than what they have. Boeggarts isnt a SS.

 

EDIT:.......and Valencia is actually a better offensive player than Iglesias. Much better. You would drool if Iglesias had Velencia's minor league numbers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Replacing a bad option with a worse one isn't a good solution.

 

Iglesias will never be a good solution, so what does it matter?

 

Valencia doesn't make them better, but neither does Iglesias.....nor does sticking with Aviles.

 

If you want a solution at SS, they need to find one other than what they have. Boeggarts isnt a SS.

 

If you're going to dog a guys defensive skills like you've scouted him, shouldn't you know how to spell his name?

 

The only knock on Bogaerts defensively is that he is likely going to be too big. Which means that's down the road, as in when he's 26-28 years old. So he's got 4-5 good years at SS before he will need to make the move to 3B.

 

Iglesias makes them better than Valencia does. Maybe we should start looking at defense up the middle a bit more than we have been, because clearly our SP needs all the help they can get. Saving runs defensively is a good way to help the SP problem for the short term.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Valencia has a .649 OPS over his past 2 seasons in the MLB. He had a .719 OPS in 3 seasons of AAA ball. That's hardly drool-worthy.

 

Iglesias is obviously a glove first player. Not everything revolves around offense.

[SCM33]

If you're going to dog a guys defensive skills like you've scouted him, shouldn't you know how to spell his name?

 

The only knock on Bogaerts defensively is that he is likely going to be too big. Which means that's down the road, as in when he's 26-28 years old. So he's got 4-5 good years at SS before he will need to make the move to 3B.

 

Iglesias makes them better than Valencia does. Maybe we should start looking at defense up the middle a bit more than we have been, because clearly our SP needs all the help they can get. Saving runs defensively is a good way to help the SP problem for the short term.

 

BOGAERTS is a career .939 defender at SS in the minors. Jose Offerman who once committed 42 errors in a single season and was regarded as a butcher at SS had a career FP of .943 at SS. Offerman also blows him away in range factor. Bogaerts is a terrible SS.

 

Valencia has a .649 OPS over his past 2 seasons in the MLB. He had a .719 OPS in 3 seasons of AAA ball. That's hardly drool-worthy.

 

Iglesias is obviously a glove first player. Not everything revolves around offense.

 

Iglesias is a .571 OPS player in AAA. I dont care if hes Ozzie Smith with the glove, thats f***ing terrible. Pitchers have higher OPS's.

[cbbosox]

BOGAERTS is a career .939 defender at SS in the minors. Jose Offerman who once committed 42 errors in a single season and was regarded as a butcher at SS had a career FP of .943 at SS. Offerman also blows him away in range factor. Bogaerts is a terrible SS.

 

 

 

I saw Boegarts in person once and at first look he seemed bigger than your average ss but not sure his fp at low a would be a great indicator. Iglesias makes errors too.

I'm sure minor league fields aren'nt as good and with Gonzalez at first i'll bet his error count goes down.

 

Don't think Middlebooks is going anywhere so i'm all for trying the rico petrocelli route.

[jacksonianmarch]

6-8 week injury, in all likelihood, he'll be shut down for the yr. solid rookie campaign though

[Bellhorn04]

Valencia has a .649 OPS over his past 2 seasons in the MLB. He had a .719 OPS in 3 seasons of AAA ball. That's hardly drool-worthy.

 

Iglesias is obviously a glove first player. Not everything revolves around offense.

 

Iglesias is 10 for his last 22 with 3 doubles.

[Station 13]

Middlebrooks was just starting to swing that f***ing bat well too with the adjustment he made. Hit 3 ball yesterday that were on the line. f***kkkkkkkk

[SoxSport]

Iglesias is 10 for his last 22 with 3 doubles.

 

Tough to make blanket statements on whether a kid can hit or not hit when he hasn't had a chance to play in the majors. Besides, how many posters are qualified to do so.

The answer is none. Neither can the Red Sox FO, if you look at their track record (Reddick stands out).

 

It does look like Iggy is being victimized by the turf war between the FO and Valentine.

He is one of the main sources of conflict, and Ben & Co are being damn stubborn about it.

They were clearly wrong about Aviles being a full time SS--but he came cheap--and if there's one word that can characterize Henry & co this year, it has been cheap--as well as mediocre.

 

The turf war this year has hurt the team more than anything else. Make no mistake. The players know what's going on, and the media knows more than what they admit. It's a screwed up organization.

[SoxSport]

6-8 week injury' date=' in all likelihood, he'll be shut down for the yr. solid rookie campaign though[/quote']

 

Great opportunity to play Iggy at SS and Ciriaco at 3B. But it won't happen with thick-headed Ben running the show. He's an Aviles guy--- his mediocrity pal.

[SoxFanForsyth]

BOGAERTS is a career .939 defender at SS in the minors. Jose Offerman who once committed 42 errors in a single season and was regarded as a butcher at SS had a career FP of .943 at SS. Offerman also blows him away in range factor. Bogaerts is a terrible SS.

 

Iglesias is a .571 OPS player in AAA. I dont care if hes Ozzie Smith with the glove, thats f***ing terrible. Pitchers have higher OPS's.

 

Hahaha. You quoted fielding percentage like it actually means something. And in the minors, no less. That's funny. Did you know that Derek Jeter had a career .934 Fielding Percentage in the minors? Or that HanRam had a career .939 Fielding % in the minors? Hm. They both stuck at SS for a while.

 

Oh. Ozzie Smith had a .943 Fielding Percentage at SS in the minors? Hm. That's funny. He was a pretty good defensive SS if I remember correctly. Wait, no. He had to have sucked because he had a bad fielding percentage in the minor leagues.

 

Good point dude. Good point. :blink:

 

Wait, what's that? Ozzie Smith had an OPS of .573 in his first 4 combined seasons? And he was what? An All Star in 81 when his OPS was .549? He was 2nd in the ROY voting and had 2 GG in his first 4 seasons? Guess that's just "f***ing terrible." Because in 1980, when he had a .589 OPS, and he posted a 4.1 WAR, he was just a terrible, terrible player. Oh wait. No. That's not it at all. He was actually a very GOOD player despite having a SLG% less than his OBP. That's weird. I thought that wasn't allowed. Hm. :blink:

 

Well. I guess we can all agree. You're clueless. You have less than zero idea about what you're talking about. Goodbye.

[SoxSport]

BOGAERTS is a career .939 defender at SS in the minors. Jose Offerman who once committed 42 errors in a single season and was regarded as a butcher at SS had a career FP of .943 at SS. Offerman also blows him away in range factor. Bogaerts is a terrible SS.

 

 

 

Iglesias is a .571 OPS player in AAA. I dont care if hes Ozzie Smith with the glove, thats f***ing terrible. Pitchers have higher OPS's.

 

I doubt there is enough OPS data on Iggy to draw any conclusions. Besides, young players can improve quickly. Ozzie Smith was an example. Upside is the word.

 

Why don't you try looking up the OPS numbers of all the ML SSs. Might be some surprises there. SS is a position where defense is valued more than offense--in most places.

[SoxSport]

Hahaha. You quoted fielding percentage like it actually means something. And in the minors, no less. That's funny. Did you know that Derek Jeter had a career .934 Fielding Percentage in the minors? Or that HanRam had a career .939 Fielding % in the minors? Hm. They both stuck at SS for a while.

 

Oh. Ozzie Smith had a .943 Fielding Percentage at SS in the minors? Hm. That's funny. He was a pretty good defensive SS if I remember correctly. Wait, no. He had to have sucked because he had a bad fielding percentage in the minor leagues.

 

Good point dude. Good point. :blink:

 

Wait, what's that? Ozzie Smith had an OPS of .573 in his first 4 combined seasons? And he was what? An All Star in 81 when his OPS was .549? He was 2nd in the ROY voting and had 2 GG in his first 4 seasons? Guess that's just "f***ing terrible." Because in 1980, when he had a .589 OPS, and he posted a 4.1 WAR, he was just a terrible, terrible player. Oh wait. No. That's not it at all. He was actually a very GOOD player despite having a SLG% less than his OBP. That's weird. I thought that wasn't allowed. Hm. :blink:

 

Well. I guess we can all agree. You're clueless. You have less than zero idea about what you're talking about. Goodbye.

 

well-stated. It shows how clueless the Red Sox FO is.

 

The only rationale for the stubborn persistence of the FO is V wanted Iggy as his SS pre-season and was overruled in a disastrous mistake by Lucchino--not supporting his manager.

Larry must have felt bad overruling Ben on his manager selection, so he has given Ben the upper hand since--to the detriment of the team.

[SoxSport]

I wanted to add something else about my SS experiences. My main positions in my youthful days were 3B and 2B. Strictly amateur level.

 

One night I had to play SS. It is a very lonely place. Seems like you have an acre of ground to cover. Much tougher than the other IF positions. The players that excel at SS are usually very fast and wirey.

Athletic. Good throwing arms--better than the other positions. It is by far the toughest IF position to play. That's why you leave the offense to the corner positions and look for defense up the middle. It's baseball 101.

[jung]

Amazing how Baseball 101 eludes the Sox FO and most of this board on such a regular basis. Accepting and even anointing a SS as "adequate" as we have on this board on occasion is simply as wrong headed as it gets. There is no such thing as an adequate SS. It is one of only two defensive positions on the field for which that is true and it is the only defensive position on the field where an inning can be turned around entirely at any given moment by a defender capable of making plays as opposed to one staggering around the position the way Aviles does.

 

One of my biggest disappointments in this FO and the clearest example I have of their lack of understanding for the game of baseball as it is played on the field is installing a utility infielder as the everyday SS. By the way, Soxsport is exactly correct.....it is an entirely different defensive position than either 2nd or 3rd, closer to 2nd than 3rd for sure but still a long way past 2nd base with regard to the difficulty of playing the position and the opportunity the position represents to the truly capable SS.

[jacksonianmarch]

Doubront to DL with a knee injury

[SoxFanForsyth]

Doubront to DL with a knee injury

 

"knee injury"

 

Just call it what it is, FO. It's dead arm. He hit his wall. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Station 13]

Doubront to DL with a knee injury

 

Guessing it's a phantom DL. Doubront look puff and out of shape. His listed 165LB on media guide must be one when he signed as a FA.

[jacksonianmarch]

SFF, it isnt anything to be ashamed of. Not a great rookie season, but certainly promising and passable. He needs to limit the walks, but the K's are good and his stuff is definitely big league caliber. I would think he has cemented himself as a starter for the sox next yr

[jung]

Felix has hit his innings limit...if you want to call to pooped to pop worthy of the DL then it got Felix off for some time and another warm body here. While Felix has had a fine rookie season his choice without a plan for getting through the remainder of the season is part of the rotation issues for this season. Not a Felix problem but another planning problem handled badly by the FO.

[jung]

Just wondering if anybody feels like they had seen enough of Bailey pre-injury, repair and rehab and Bailey since coming back to offer an opinion regarding how he looks pitching now. I cannot claim to remember enough about what he looked like before he went down to offer any comment.