2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[example1]

No need to respond to Jacko's absurd claim that they would have to give up Barnes to get Garza. Barnes could undoubtedly get Garza, but that's not the same as saying that only Barnes could get Garza.

[Spitball]

Which Grienke will be, almost certainly. And I would not be at all surprised to see Hamels on there too.

 

Hamels is a guy that I could see requiring one of Bogaerts, Bradley, or Barnes. Garza?? Haha. Please.

 

Unlike Hamels and Greinke, Garza is under control for more than a couple of months.

 

This is a list of top 100 prospects for 2012. You can find other lists, but most are about the same. The Red Sox don't have many names there.

 

http://www.rotosummit.com/home/index.php/2012-rankings/318-fantasy-baseball-top-100-prospects-for-2012-and-beyond

 

There will be other teams also looking for pitching. Teams with more minor league depth to deal. The Rangers suddenly need starting pitching and have a great deal of minor league depth. The Cardinals have depth and injuries to Carpenter and now Garcia. The Dodgers have new pro-active ownership plus the need and prospects. The Yankees could also be in the hunt for a starter.

 

These teams and others go into the bidding with deep pockets as far as prospects go. You may think Garza is worth secondary prospects but some team will ante up a better deal than the Sox can possibly muster right now.

 

Besides, the Sox have to climb over four teams in the East and four teams in the wild card. I'm not sure they are need to be using their bullets (prospects) on this season.

[Spitball]

I still think the Sox need to target more affordable pitchers like Dempster or Joe Saunders.

 

Saunders could be a bargain since he is essentially blocking Trevor Bauer from their rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

These teams and others go into the bidding with deep pockets as far as prospects go. You may think Garza is worth secondary prospects but some team will ante up a better deal than the Sox can possibly muster right now.

 

Besides, the Sox have to climb over four teams in the East and four teams in the wild card. I'm not sure they are need to be using their bullets (prospects) on this season.

 

That's certainly the way it looks right now.

[Palodios]

Garza will bring a prospect haul back. If the sox want him' date=' you're gonna have to deal Barnes[/quote']

 

Everyone seems to be on you right now, but I think you're half right.

 

The Red Sox have six young guys that could get the deal done -- Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Kalish, Barnes, Bogarets, Bradley.

 

But the Red Sox shouldn't trade ANY of those guys. And that's the problem, if Theo throws out six names, and the Red Sox give six no's, it could be a big problem in bargaining.

 

Honestly, I think that will be a very big problem for the Red Sox in general during the trade deadline-- if they do end up buyers.

[jung]

It was pretty obvious that are fate was tied to this month before the month even started. While I can easily believe why others would not think so, to me tonight's game is the biggest June game I can remember.

 

Every one of the AL teams that matter has won today. If we don't win tonight I think we end up over 5 back in the second WC and not at all looking like we are playing in the same league with the teams we have to pass. We will be 8.5 behind the yanks for the division.

 

The teams we have to get by are pitching lights out. Yanks won 4-1. Rays won 3-0. O's won 2-0. Even Toronto with its depleted pitching won 6-2.

 

Does not look like the year to spend prospects unless you are going to get a pitching asset or assets that will be yours past this year with reliable health expectations.

Funny game baseball. It is early all the way up until it is late. Maybe tonight's game will be the turnaround for the month. At least for me, I have believed and still believe that where we are by month end June is a very big deal.

[Spitball]

Everyone seems to be on you right now, but I think you're half right.

 

The Red Sox have six young guys that could get the deal done -- Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Kalish, Barnes, Bogarets, Bradley.

 

But the Red Sox shouldn't trade ANY of those guys. And that's the problem, if Theo throws out six names, and the Red Sox give six no's, it could be a big problem in bargaining.

 

Honestly, I think that will be a very big problem for the Red Sox in general during the trade deadline-- if they do end up buyers.

 

The Red Sox really do need to restore the farm system and getting into a bidding war for Garza would be foolish right now. Besides, I feel he will be over-rated as an AL East veteran. His numbers were showing indications of decline before he went to the NL, and his numbers against some of the AL powerhouses were not stellar.

[FredLynn]

And with 2 months of control' date=' the M's got Smoak. Guys, garzas price will be huge[/quote']

 

The one thing going for us is the Epstein is a fool. Its perfectly within his ability to give Garza away in return for some of our used trash.

[jung]

It is true that the Cubs are only interested in prospects. That is it. They really don't want to talk about anybody else...maybe a guy like Bard qualifies based on his "youth" but I could also believe, the Cubs really do just want prospects.

 

I could believe they are willing to go deeper into a farm system than one might suspect because they are not going from the basement to the penthouse in one year and they know it. Might be the only saving grace for the Sox if they are really interested. They might need a Dempster just to survive this season. We really don't know Beckett's status.

 

Point is they are no longer an odds on bet even for the second WC. They have a shot at it but not more than that. How much do they want to bargain away their future on a chance to play a single game to move on at the end of September.

[FredLynn]

It was pretty obvious that are fate was tied to this month before the month even started. While I can easily believe why others would not think so, to me tonight's game is the biggest June game I can remember.

 

Every one of the AL teams that matter has won today. If we don't win tonight I think we end up over 5 back in the second WC and not at all looking like we are playing in the same league with the teams we have to pass. We will be 8.5 behind the yanks for the division.

 

The teams we have to get by are pitching lights out. Yanks won 4-1. Rays won 3-0. O's won 2-0. Even Toronto with its depleted pitching won 6-2.

 

Does not look like the year to spend prospects unless you are going to get a pitching asset or assets that will be yours past this year with reliable health expectations.

Funny game baseball. It is early all the way up until it is late. Maybe tonight's game will be the turnaround for the month. At least for me, I have believed and still believe that where we are by month end June is a very big deal.

 

I agree 100% Jung. Lose tonite and its time to start plotting for next year. I volunteer to start the offseason thread. We simply cannot catch all the teams ahead of us if we get even one more game behind. Therefore, lose tonite and we should become big time sellers of the deadwood on the team but NONE of our prospects-zero.

They are all big games for us now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow.

 

Lose tonight and start plotting for next year.

 

It's bleeping Fathers Day. June 17th.

 

Wow.

 

I guess the remaining 16 games against the Yankees don't matter. At least not nearly as much as the June 17th interleague game against the Cubs.

[FredLynn]

Wow.

 

Lose tonight and start plotting for next year.

 

It's bleeping Fathers Day. June 17th.

 

Wow.

 

I guess the remaining 16 games against the Yankees don't matter. At least not nearly as much as the June 17th interleague game against the Cubs.

 

Are you going to be saying the same thing on July 4? Aug 1? Sept 1?

It will be mathmatically possible for us to make the playoffs for a long time, but it would also represent further stupidity for our FO to cash in their chips at the trade deadline for an eventuality that is so unlikely.

Yeah. Thats right. Lose tonite and we should get realistic about this and start planning for NEXT YEAR.

Mediocre teams rarely make the playoffs; nor do they deserve it.

[jacksonianmarch]

The one thing going for us is the Epstein is a fool. Its perfectly within his ability to give Garza away in return for some of our used trash.

 

But he knows the sox farm system. And he isnt a fool, he got greedy. I think in Chicago he might be able to avoid the ever delightful quick fix.

[FredLynn]

But he knows the sox farm system. And he isnt a fool' date=' he got greedy. I think in Chicago he might be able to avoid the ever delightful quick fix.[/quote']

 

I believe that his inability to judge talent is the Achilles heel that just might allow us to rape the Cubs. He thinks he knows our farm system, but his lack of judgement impairs him. Its perfectly within the realm of possibility that he makes another mistake in our favor. It wouldn't be the first time.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am completely sure he will require 2 top 100 prospects to deal Garza. Heck, they dealt 2 top 50 guys to get him and he's been better in Chitown than he was in Tampa. I am telling you right now, Garza is gonna move and he is going to bring a humongous haul to Chicago

[Bellhorn04]

The one thing going for us is the Epstein is a fool. Its perfectly within his ability to give Garza away in return for some of our used trash.

 

Epstein made some bad signings but I don't think there were any instances of him giving away a talented player.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I am completely sure he will require 2 top 100 prospects to deal Garza. Heck' date=' they dealt 2 top 50 guys to get him and he's been better in Chitown than he was in Tampa. I am telling you right now, Garza is gonna move and he is going to bring a humongous haul to Chicago[/quote']

 

I don't think he has increased his value since the TB trade. He's now older and his last season looks like more of an outlier than the new norm especially pitching in 1) the NL, 2) the NL Central. He's a #3 SP and pretty expensive at that. I don't see him getting the haul you're talking about.

[jung]

I think the key is where the Sox are at the END of this month relative to the teams that they have to get past.

 

I think tonight's game is a really big game but only relative to the original mark I set for myself....the end of the month.

 

It is a conundrum. I don't think their SP is good enough as is to get the job done but I would be reluctant to give up good prospects to get more SP this year as competitive as the league is.

 

But as I have stated several times, at least in my case, I am reserving judgement till I see where they are relative to the competition at the end of the month, both in games back and the quality of their play.

 

I can understand the arguments on either side of me as they are all opinions that have some merit.....they are at least to me, no better or worse than my own.

[FredLynn]

I am completely sure he will require 2 top 100 prospects to deal Garza. Heck' date=' they dealt 2 top 50 guys to get him and he's been better in Chitown than he was in Tampa. I am telling you right now, Garza is gonna move and he is going to bring a humongous haul to Chicago[/quote']

 

IF you are right (and I am not at all sure you are) then he will move to a contending team. Right now, that is most likely not the Red Sox. I would not give up a single important prospect until this team begins to show some signs of life.

[SCM33]

Epstein made some bad signings but I don't think there were any instances of him giving away a talented player.

 

Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez for Jeff Suppan.

 

Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena.

 

Ramon Ramirez for Daniel Turpen (who?)

[Palodios]

I am completely sure he will require 2 top 100 prospects to deal Garza. Heck' date=' they dealt 2 top 50 guys to get him and he's been better in Chitown than he was in Tampa. I am telling you right now, Garza is gonna move and he is going to bring a humongous haul to Chicago[/quote']

 

When he arrived at Chicago he had 3 arbitration years left, and was significantly cheaper. There was no reason for the Rays to trade him unless someone overspent.

 

Right now, he has a 4.00 ERA in the NL. If the Cubs can't afford him, then I would bet that he's going to want to hit free agency. So, essentially he's a #2/#3 starter, who is also a rental. I just don't seem that being worth two top prospects.

 

That being said, I'd probably give up Swihart and Iggy for him-- they've been top 100 prospects in 2012 and 2011 respectively.

[FredLynn]

When he arrived at Chicago he had 3 arbitration years left, and was significantly cheaper. There was no reason for the Rays to trade him unless someone overspent.

 

Right now, he has a 4.00 ERA in the NL. If the Cubs can't afford him, then I would bet that he's going to want to hit free agency. So, essentially he's a #2/#3 starter, who is also a rental. I just don't seem that being worth two top prospects.

 

That being said, I'd probably give up Swihart and Iggy for him-- they've been top 100 prospects in 2012 and 2011 respectively.

 

Why would you want to give up ANY prospects for a one and a half year rental-unless we get more years out of the deal, which is highly unlikely?

[Palodios]

Why would you want to give up ANY prospects for a one and a half year rental-unless we get more years out of the deal' date=' which is highly unlikely?[/quote']

 

Mostly because I'm not all that impressed with either of those two players, and having Garza in the rotation for 2013 could be worth it.

[Station 13]

Why would the Cubs want a SS?

[jacksonianmarch]

Why would the Cubs want a SS?

 

cause Castro is probably headed for 3b

[Spitball]

cause Castro is probably headed for 3b

 

You can't say, "probably headed for 3b." He makes lots of errors, but most are on long throws, much like he would have to make from third base. I see him being much like Hanley Ramirez. He is only 22, and the Cubs will give him time to develop into a shortstop. His value as a middle infielder capable of being a major offensive force makes shortstop his best position if he can develop defensively.

[Station 13]

Anyone with ESPN insider can post this?

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story?id=8063055&_slug_=chicago-cubs-boston-red-sox-pieces-make-trade-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2fstory%3fid%3d8063055%26_slug_%3dchicago-cubs-boston-red-sox-pieces-make-trade-mlb

[SCM33]

Anyone with ESPN insider can post this?

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story?id=8063055&_slug_=chicago-cubs-boston-red-sox-pieces-make-trade-mlb&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2fstory%3fid%3d8063055%26_slug_%3dchicago-cubs-boston-red-sox-pieces-make-trade-mlb

 

Ryan Dempster pitched very well on Friday, shutting out the Boston Red Sox offense over seven innings. It was the third straight start in which he tossed at least seven shutout innings, reducing his ERA to 2.11 in the process. With his typically strong peripherals, Dempster has already tallied 1.9 wins above replacement in 81 innings, putting him on pace for his highest total since posting 5.2 WAR with the 2008 Cubs.

 

However, given his contractual status and the Chicago Cubs' futility this season, Dempster is likely to find himself finishing the season in another uniform.

 

While a few contenders such as the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers have already inquired on his availability, the team Dempster just recently blanked could and should have interest. The Red Sox's interest in Cubs pitching doesn't have to stop there, either, as Matt Garza is conceivably available as well. Both righties would solidify Boston's starting rotation and help the Red Sox get back into the running for a very obtainable American League playoff berth.

 

 

Neither pitcher would come cheap, but the Red Sox have a solid system, and the teams' front office familiarity -- Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer run the Cubs now after having served together with the Red Sox for numerous years -- could certainly help matters. The Red Sox might not appear to be natural trade partners for the Cubs, but they stand to make up some ground as offensive contributors regress to the mean and return from injuries. Adding a 4-5 WAR pitcher to the mix could take them even further.

 

Boston's rotation currently ranks in the middle of the American League with 4.8 cumulative WAR. However, the group has the third-highest ERA behind the Minnesota Twins and Kansas City Royals without an abnormally high batting average on balls in play. The rotation isn't the main reason the team is currently 32-33, 7.5 games out of first place and four games behind the Tampa Bay Rays for the second wild-card spot, but it certainly isn't a team strength. It has talent but lacks consistency, which has hurt this season.

 

In terms of space available for Dempster or Garza, the mainstays are Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and Felix Doubront. Daisuke Matsuzaka recently returned from surgery, and it isn't clear how much he'll provide or even how often he'll pitch. Clay Buchholz has been much better recently after struggling mightily earlier in the season, but consistency remains a major question for him. And the Daniel Bard conversion hasn't gone well, with the reliever-turned-starter recently getting demoted to Pawtucket. There is room in the rotation for an All-Star-caliber pitcher.

 

Dempster would cost less than Garza given their respective ages and contract statuses, but the Red Sox have enough in the system to appease Epstein's requests. He might have his eye on Boston pitching prospects like Brandon Workman, Henry Owens or Drake Britton. A half-season of Dempster isn't worth all three, but these types of prospects would represent a solid return and would add depth to an area of concern.

 

Workman projects more as a reliever, but he could end up sticking as a starter. Britton was a former top prospect who has fallen off recently. Owens -- selected 36th overall in 2011 -- has high upside and might be a tough sell to Sox GM Ben Cherington in a Dempster deal. On the other hand, Epstein could gamble on Britton's upside instead of other prospects who might carry less risk but also less overall talent.

 

When it comes to Garza, it's tough to envision a scenario in which Epstein doesn't instantly request pitching prospect Matt Barnes. He could also target Xander Bogaerts, who is quickly climbing up the top 100 prospect lists (Keith Law ranked him No. 62 in his preseason top 100). Jose Iglesias has been attached to the Cubs before, as Epstein values shortstop defense above many other roster areas. He could look to acquire Iglesias and shift Starlin Castro to second base, third base or even the outfield.

 

The Cubs could also look at impact hitting talent such as Bryce Brentz and Brandon Jacobs. The latter is more of a project than the former, but both would greatly upgrade the hitting in the Cubs' system.

 

A deal sending Barnes, Brentz and maybe Workman to the Cubs would seem reasonable to acquire Garza, while selections from the lesser tier of Red Sox prospects would satisfy the Cubs' requirements for a Dempster move. The bottom line remains that the Cubs are motivated to sell and the Red Sox, while seemingly out of the playoff picture now, should still consider themselves buyers.

 

Internal improvements such as offensive players regressing and contributors returning from injuries are on the horizon, and an upgrade in the rotation could make Boston a real threat for the wild card and possibly even a contender for the AL East.

[Station 13]

Thanks man, I really hated that Fangraphs have decided to post their articles to ESPN Insider now.

[Spitball]

Thanks, 33. Interesting article.