A comedy of errors

[ibot2much]

The comedy continues off the field for the 100th birthday. JH was surprised to discover that the FO did not invite Theo to the party. Apparently, none of the other GM s were invited either, with just uniformed personnel invited.

 

Anybody else agree that JH has lost interest in the RS?

[Elktonnick]

The comedy continues off the field for the 100th birthday. JH was surprised to discover that the FO did not invite Theo to the party. Apparently, none of the other GM s were invited either, with just uniformed personnel invited.

 

Anybody else agree that JH has lost interest in the RS?

 

I have been saying for months that JH is setting it up to sell the Red Sox. He clearly is having problems managing both Liverpool and Boston. There is ample reporting on the problems with the Liverpool Reds in the British press which seem to mirror those in Boston. I think from a strictly business prospective he has taken the Boston franchise as far as it can go in terms of revenue and increased value of the franchise. Whereas there is greater possibility for increasing profit and franchise value from an English premier league football team. So if one is strictly interested in maximizing return, I'd say I would pay more attention to Liverpool than in the Red Sox if I were in his shoes.

[ibot2much]

I agree with you. I thought that the big money invested for last year was supposed to result in WS rings being given out during the 100th anniv celebration. Perfect way for them to end their ownership reign.... and then sell. Have not seen much of Werner, LL is looking to be MLB head and JH can take his money and invest elsewhere. They have done all they can with Boston; the problems and aggravation the team has presented makes it less desirable daily

[Lionbush]

I'm a Liverpool fan over here in the UK as well as a Red Sox follower.

 

I have to say that there has been no sign of FSG showing any less interest in the Red Sox from where we are. Infact, they flew over for Opening Day at the weekend missing our FA Cup Semi Final at Wembley against our City rivals Everton. They also missed the Hillsborough memorial service the following day which is an improtant day in the LFC calander. Not that any of us hold any resentment for missing either, we understand that Opening day on Fenways 100yr anniversary is also a big deal.

 

There have been problems at LFC, but they took over a total wreck of a football club. Slowly they have built us back up again, however on the field there is much to do. The English Premier League however is a massive cash cow. More so than any other sport in the world. The Champions League is a money generator and I think they will be putting a lot of energy into getting us back into that once more. Add to that Anfield either needs redeveloping or a new ground needs building. Once they are achieved, I think you will see a bit more balance between the two of us.

 

I can't see them selling the Red Sox though. It, along with LFC, is a flagship brand of their portfolio.

[MANNYHOF24]

I wouldn't mind a new direction for the club personally. As long as they brought a commitment to winning along with them. I wonder if a new owenership group would also bring back the talks for a new ballpark.

[jung]

This is a straight business situation and a text book example of how leveraged transactions work. Once you have increased the value of an asset to the degree that the Red Sox value has been increased, you simply cannot leave all that money on the table....you can't. You have to realize your profits and you have to move on to the next transaction.

 

Every ownership group comes into a new transaction with an exit strategy. For the senior managers of the organization it is always right in front of them even if in terms of time it is not right around the corner. I find it hard to believe that FSG is not very close to being right there and in fact I would also not be surprised if the whole Theo thing did not result in a determination by FSG that they would even wait a bit longer in an effort to make sure that there were answers for any issues that were a result of Baseball Operations screw ups of recent that would end up in the Red Sox Book that would be constructed at the time when FSG began an active campaign to sell it.

 

As for JH not knowing that only uniformed personnel would be invited to the anniversary....I was a senior manager for years. The guy at the top or the pyramid may not know specifics of who and why for an event like this but for the top guy not to know that the cut was uniformed personnel is highly unlikely.

 

I think that the Sox are taking advantage of the fact that Theo would have been the only exec still standing that would have been invited back anyway. I think the "story" of Theo leaving to pursue other ventures was as concocted as the story about Tito's mutual separation from the Sox. Theo is gone from here because he made decisions (all be it with LL's approval I would wager) that were woefully bad....incredibly bad....decisions that went right to maximizing the value of the asset and may have even changed even if marginally, JH's plans for an exit. That is why Theo is not coming back in my estimation.

[Spudboy]

I have been saying for months that JH is setting it up to sell the Red Sox. He clearly is having problems managing both Liverpool and Boston. There is ample reporting on the problems with the Liverpool Reds in the British press which seem to mirror those in Boston. I think from a strictly business prospective he has taken the Boston franchise as far as it can go in terms of revenue and increased value of the franchise. Whereas there is greater possibility for increasing profit and franchise value from an English premier league football team. So if one is strictly interested in maximizing return' date=' I'd say I would pay more attention to Liverpool than in the Red Sox if I were in his shoes.[/quote']

 

How do you know this? What evidence do you speak of? "Reports"?

 

I think the guy is a class A Dweeb and one lucky ********** to have all that money with little to show as accomplishments. But how can you assume this from what you see in those reports?

[Spudboy]

I'm a Liverpool fan over here in the UK as well as a Red Sox follower.

 

I have to say that there has been no sign of FSG showing any less interest in the Red Sox from where we are. Infact, they flew over for Opening Day at the weekend missing our FA Cup Semi Final at Wembley against our City rivals Everton. They also missed the Hillsborough memorial service the following day which is an improtant day in the LFC calander. Not that any of us hold any resentment for missing either, we understand that Opening day on Fenways 100yr anniversary is also a big deal.

 

There have been problems at LFC, but they took over a total wreck of a football club. Slowly they have built us back up again, however on the field there is much to do. The English Premier League however is a massive cash cow. More so than any other sport in the world. The Champions League is a money generator and I think they will be putting a lot of energy into getting us back into that once more. Add to that Anfield either needs redeveloping or a new ground needs building. Once they are achieved, I think you will see a bit more balance between the two of us.

 

I can't see them selling the Red Sox though. It, along with LFC, is a flagship brand of their portfolio.

 

 

Common sense and astute observations.

 

I hope you are correct.

[Elktonnick]

How do you know this? What evidence do you speak of? "Reports"?

 

I think the guy is a class A Dweeb and one lucky ********** to have all that money with little to show as accomplishments. But how can you assume this from what you see in those reports?

 

NYTimes and The Guardian

[SeanP]

Links ?

[Elktonnick]

Links ?

What a lazy group on this board do your own research, It really is quite simple just Google Liverpool problems and you'll find:

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems

‎

 

AFP - Apr 1, 2012

 

By Jason Mellor (AFP) – 10 hours ago NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom — Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they ...

International: 'If Carroll can get Suarez on the ball Newcastle have a big ... ‎ Goal.com

Football: Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ AsiaOne

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat ‎ The Guardian

Times of India

all 1368 news articles »

 

 

AFP

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits Liverpool have problems

‎

 

Capital FM Kenya - Apr 2, 2012

 

NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom, April 2 – Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they slumped to a sixth defeat ...

International: Loyal boss needs foot soldiers, not fools, as Liverpool crisis deepens ‎ Daily Mail

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ The Sun Daily

Kenny Dalglish says Liverpool players must stick together and ... ‎ The Australian

Football365.com- Team talk

all 822 news articles »

 

 

Capital FM Kenya

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kenny Dalglish has our full support, say Liverpool's owners

‎

 

The Guardian - 6 days ago

 

The Liverpool chairman also admitted there were problems with Comolli over this summer's transfer strategy. Dalglish has accepted full responsibility for ...

Blog: Kenny Dalglish Leads Liverpool Fight Club Up From Cellar Into ... ‎ NESN.com (blog)

Liverpool wield the axe after disastrous transfer spending ‎ Miusoccer.com

Liverpool: Top 10 Moments in a Crazy Week for the Reds ‎ Bleacher Report

The Hindu- Anfield Road

all 768 news articles »

[ibot2much]

And it continues....The FO invited Theo today as well as the other two GM--Port and Duquette. Theo is busy with the Cubs but offered his best wishes.

[Spudboy]

What a lazy group on this board do your own research, It really is quite simple just Google Liverpool problems and you'll find:

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems

‎

 

AFP - Apr 1, 2012

 

By Jason Mellor (AFP) – 10 hours ago NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom — Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they ...

International: 'If Carroll can get Suarez on the ball Newcastle have a big ... ‎ Goal.com

Football: Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ AsiaOne

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat ‎ The Guardian

Times of India

all 1368 news articles »

 

 

AFP

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits Liverpool have problems

‎

 

Capital FM Kenya - Apr 2, 2012

 

NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom, April 2 – Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they slumped to a sixth defeat ...

International: Loyal boss needs foot soldiers, not fools, as Liverpool crisis deepens ‎ Daily Mail

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ The Sun Daily

Kenny Dalglish says Liverpool players must stick together and ... ‎ The Australian

Football365.com- Team talk

all 822 news articles »

 

 

Capital FM Kenya

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kenny Dalglish has our full support, say Liverpool's owners

‎

 

The Guardian - 6 days ago

 

The Liverpool chairman also admitted there were problems with Comolli over this summer's transfer strategy. Dalglish has accepted full responsibility for ...

Blog: Kenny Dalglish Leads Liverpool Fight Club Up From Cellar Into ... ‎ NESN.com (blog)

Liverpool wield the axe after disastrous transfer spending ‎ Miusoccer.com

Liverpool: Top 10 Moments in a Crazy Week for the Reds ‎ Bleacher Report

The Hindu- Anfield Road

all 768 news articles »

 

Strong data indeed.

[SeanP]

What a lazy group on this board do your own research, It really is quite simple just Google Liverpool problems and you'll find:

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems

‎

 

AFP - Apr 1, 2012

 

By Jason Mellor (AFP) – 10 hours ago NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom — Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they ...

International: 'If Carroll can get Suarez on the ball Newcastle have a big ... ‎ Goal.com

Football: Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ AsiaOne

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat ‎ The Guardian

Times of India

all 1368 news articles »

 

 

AFP

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dalglish admits Liverpool have problems

‎

 

Capital FM Kenya - Apr 2, 2012

 

NEWCASTLE, United Kingdom, April 2 – Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has accepted there are problems within his side after they slumped to a sixth defeat ...

International: Loyal boss needs foot soldiers, not fools, as Liverpool crisis deepens ‎ Daily Mail

Dalglish admits struggling Liverpool have problems ‎ The Sun Daily

Kenny Dalglish says Liverpool players must stick together and ... ‎ The Australian

Football365.com- Team talk

all 822 news articles »

 

 

Capital FM Kenya

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kenny Dalglish has our full support, say Liverpool's owners

‎

 

The Guardian - 6 days ago

 

The Liverpool chairman also admitted there were problems with Comolli over this summer's transfer strategy. Dalglish has accepted full responsibility for ...

Blog: Kenny Dalglish Leads Liverpool Fight Club Up From Cellar Into ... ‎ NESN.com (blog)

Liverpool wield the axe after disastrous transfer spending ‎ Miusoccer.com

Liverpool: Top 10 Moments in a Crazy Week for the Reds ‎ Bleacher Report

The Hindu- Anfield Road

all 768 news articles »

 

You are a liar, there is nothing there

[Elktonnick]

I'm a Liverpool fan over here in the UK as well as a Red Sox follower.

 

I have to say that there has been no sign of FSG showing any less interest in the Red Sox from where we are. Infact, they flew over for Opening Day at the weekend missing our FA Cup Semi Final at Wembley against our City rivals Everton. They also missed the Hillsborough memorial service the following day which is an improtant day in the LFC calander. Not that any of us hold any resentment for missing either, we understand that Opening day on Fenways 100yr anniversary is also a big deal.

 

There have been problems at LFC, but they took over a total wreck of a football club. Slowly they have built us back up again, however on the field there is much to do. The English Premier League however is a massive cash cow. More so than any other sport in the world. The Champions League is a money generator and I think they will be putting a lot of energy into getting us back into that once more. Add to that Anfield either needs redeveloping or a new ground needs building. Once they are achieved, I think you will see a bit more balance between the two of us.

 

I can't see them selling the Red Sox though. It, along with LFC, is a flagship brand of their portfolio.

 

It is a question of value added and cash flow. IMO there is greater opportunity with Liverpool than Boston. I don't think they can appreciate the value of the Sox more than perhaps the 1.% billion they could probably get for the club now. The big opportunity is Liverpool being English Premier League, it has a worldwide market for their kit etc. I just don't see the market for Sox gear having the worldwide potential that Liverpool does. I also think Henry et al from a management and time management point of view know that it is very difficult to manage two such franchises effectively. This guys ounderstand that. Plus there may be buyers in the US willing to pay top dollar for the Sox. In sum IMHO they are satting the club up for sale. When not if is the question.

[SeanP]

Strong data indeed.

 

Tons of supporting evidence

[Elktonnick]

You are a liar' date=' there is nothing there[/quote']

 

What are you talking about ? Who the hell are you calling a liar I think I deserve an apology>

This was published in the New York Times on Apr 14

 

For Liverpool and Red Sox, the Same Owner and Parallel Debacles

By JER? LONGMAN

Published: April 14, 2012

 

LONDON — John Henry is the principal owner of two of the sporting world’s most visible, storied and valuable franchises — the Red Sox of Boston and the Reds of Liverpool. Yet at the moment, his baseball and soccer teams are united not in towering success but in stunning collapse.

Enlarge This Image

Christopher Lee/Getty Images

 

John Henry, left, with Tom Werner. Henry is the principal owner of the Liverpool soccer team and the Red Sox, and Werner is the chairman of both.

Enlarge This Image

Charles Krupa/Associated Press

 

John Henry, the principal owner of the Red Sox, in the Fenway Park scoreboard. Boston collapsed last season; Liverpool has failed to inspire in 2012.

 

The Red Sox finished 7-20 last September and missed the playoffs. The new season has brought a nervous start. Meanwhile, Liverpool has won only 3 of its 14 Premier League matches in 2012 and has had its reputation sullied in the clumsy handling of a case of on-field racial taunting by Luis Su?rez, its star Uruguayan forward.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool fired its director of soccer, Damien Comolli, a Frenchman. In effect, Comolli took the fall for the profligate spending of about $175 million over the past 17 months in player acquisitions that have produced mediocre results. The signings generally appeared to contradict the “Moneyball” approach, favored by Henry, to spend judiciously on capable, lesser-known players.

 

“We feel there is enough talent on the pitch to win,” Tom Werner, Liverpool’s (and the Red Sox’) American chairman, told reporters, “and we’ve been dissatisfied, as most supporters have been, with the results so far.”

 

On Saturday at Wembley Stadium, Liverpool found some consolation with the awakening of the somnolent forward Andy Carroll and a late 2-1 victory over its city rival Everton in a semifinal of the F.A. Cup, a tournament open to all divisions of English soccer. In February, Liverpool won the Carling Cup, a lesser domestic tournament that put hardware in the club’s trophy case for the first time in six years.

 

A second trophy, the F.A. Cup, would mitigate the disappointment but not redeem this season for many Liverpool fans. Manchester United appears headed toward a 20th league title, while Liverpool remains stuck for two decades on 18, last having won a league crown in 1990, its present struggles a dim comparison with a shimmering past.

 

Drifting in eighth place in the Premier League, Liverpool will miss out on next season’s European Champions League, considered the world’s best club competition, for the third consecutive season. The absence could lead to the loss of $45 million or more in revenue and to a decreased willingness of top players to join the club.

 

“It would be good to win two cups, but I guess the majority of fans would probably still be disappointed,” said Peter Harmsworth, 59, a family therapist from Liverpool. “Liverpool won’t have been seen as making any progress since last year, while Manchester United has continued to do well. That’s what really gets people, when your biggest rival wins again.”

 

The Red Sox and Liverpool have struggled recently from the extravagant acquisitions of players who have underperformed. Most noticeably this has been the case with Boston outfielder Carl Crawford and Liverpool’s Carroll, who was bought from Newcastle in January 2011 for $55.8 million, a club record, but who has since delivered only six goals in the Premier League and 10 over all.

 

“You think of the optimism both fan bases seemed to have 12 to 18 months ago, versus both fan bases being pretty dejected at the moment,” said Jonathan Meltzer, 26, a second-year Yale Law School student and a fan of the Red Sox and Liverpool.

 

In fairness, Henry, who made his fortune as a futures trader and who did not respond to a request for an interview, remains a respected owner in both cities. His Red Sox, after all, won the World Series in 2004 and 2007 after eight decades of futility.

 

Still, in Boston, where the Red Sox have started slowly for the second consecutive season, there is some itchy concern in the news media that Henry may be paying too much attention to soccer and not enough to baseball.

 

“He’s had the appearance of being distracted, absent, focused elsewhere,” said Dan Shaughnessy, a longtime columnist at The Boston Globe.

 

In England, the news-media portrayal of Henry is as an attentive, even ruthless, owner who has a clear strategy for success and is impatient with failure. “Americans show who is in control,” The Times of London said in a Friday headline after Comolli was fired.

 

Upon buying Liverpool in October 2010 for about $480 million, Henry and the Fenway Sports Group were seen as saviors, having rescued the club from the previous American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr., who had debts of about $375 million, did not get a new stadium deal and were widely disliked by fans. (The New York Times owns part of Fenway Sports Group.)

 

“When Henry arrived, anyone would have been perceived to be better than Hicks and Gillett,” said Tom Cannon, a professor of strategic development at the University of Liverpool. “He was seen as an astute businessman with a plan.”

 

Yet Henry and Werner received mixed reviews for Liverpool’s handling of an episode last October, when Su?rez directed racial taunts at Manchester United’s Patrice Evra, who is black, during a match. Su?rez was suspended for eight games and later refused to shake Evra’s hand in a pregame ritual.

 

Meanwhile, Liverpool’s manager, Kenny Dalglish, and players wore T-shirts in support of Su?rez, a gesture that drew widespread criticism, given international soccer’s stated policy of zero tolerance for racism. Su?rez apologized for the handshake snub in February, an act of contrition that Henry and Werner were credited with orchestrating. Still, they were criticized for not acting sooner and more forcefully.

 

“The general view is that the people from Boston said, ‘Stop arguing; let’s close this down,’ ” Cannon said. “Still, it hurt the club. Liverpool historically has been seen as a progressive club that did the right thing.”

 

There are considerable roadblocks to returning to something like the glory days of 1972 to 1990, when Liverpool won the English league 11 times and the European title 4 times. (A fifth Champions League title came in 2005.) Anfield, Liverpool’s revered stadium, is aging, holds only 45,000 fans and is fitted with fewer corporate amenities than newer Premier League stadiums. Liverpool is also the poorest among the major soccer cities in England, Cannon said.

 

The prestige and financial gain of the Champions League remain elusive. And Liverpool’s standing with Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal as the big four of the Premier League has been challenged by Manchester City and Tottenham.

 

“The Liverpool problems are probably more serious and fundamental than that of the Red Sox,” said Stefan Szymanski, a Briton who co-wrote the book “Soccernomics” and teaches sports management at the University of Michigan.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool gave a vote of confidence to Dalglish, 61, a Scotsman known as King Kenny, who has faced criticism for a perceived over-reliance on British-born players, questionable tactical decisions and remarks about a supposed referees conspiracy against his team.

 

Still, Dalglish is widely revered. He is considered Liverpool’s greatest player, and he led the club to three league titles in a previous stint as the manager. He also accumulated enormous good will for his compassionate, stabilizing behavior after 96 Liverpool fans died in a stadium crush known as the Hillsborough disaster.

 

A moment of silence before Saturday’s match commemorated the 23rd anniversary of the tragedy. Then Liverpool tried to atone somewhat for this troubled season. Carroll had scored a winner in added time Tuesday against Blackburn. Against Everton, though, he missed twice, pulling his jersey over his face after driving a header wide from close range in the 47th minute.

 

Then, with the score tied at 1-1 in the 87th minute, facing away from goal, Carroll angled a free kick into the net with the back of his head. All the complaints about fat contracts and thin goal production fell away for the moment. A team and its coach and its fans found something to celebrate in a dour season.

 

“We showed a little what Liverpool are,” defender Jamie Carragher said.

Furthermore you find this in the Guardian

Kenny Dalglish

 

Where it all went wrong for Liverpool and Kenny Dalglish

 

Kenny Dalglish has been found wanting with signings and his stance during the Luis Su?rez affair

 

Ten facts to put Liverpool's dismal league campaign into context

 

Twitter 'racist abuse' of Newcastle's James Perch investigated by police

 

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat

 

Video In video: Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat

 

Papiss Ciss?'s double for Newcastle makes more trouble for Liverpool

 

Fan charged over 'racist gesture' during Liverpool v Manchester United

 

Related

 

11 Sep 2011

 

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish shows strain after Stoke defeat

 

24 Jan 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish defends criticism of Liverpool players after Bolton loss

 

2 Apr 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat - video

 

7 Mar 2011

 

Kenny Dalglish demands a winning sequence from Liverpool

 

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[pedroias laser]

Wow talk about trying to get a smell from a fart i mean really!. So the FO has other investments and

that means they seem to be exploring leaving the Sox and the NY TIMES! is the source might as well

ask Carrot Top to write for that hack of a paper.

[pedroias laser]

Wow talk about trying to get a smell from a fart i mean really!. So the FO has other investments and

that means they seem to be exploring leaving the Sox and the NY TIMES! is the source might as well

ask Carrot Top to write for that hack of a paper.

[Elktonnick]

You are a liar' date=' there is nothing there[/quote']

 

What are you talking about ? Who the hell are you calling a liar I think I deserve an apology>

This was published in the New York Times on Apr 14

 

For Liverpool and Red Sox, the Same Owner and Parallel Debacles

By JER? LONGMAN

Published: April 14, 2012

 

LONDON — John Henry is the principal owner of two of the sporting world’s most visible, storied and valuable franchises — the Red Sox of Boston and the Reds of Liverpool. Yet at the moment, his baseball and soccer teams are united not in towering success but in stunning collapse.

Enlarge This Image

Christopher Lee/Getty Images

 

John Henry, left, with Tom Werner. Henry is the principal owner of the Liverpool soccer team and the Red Sox, and Werner is the chairman of both.

Enlarge This Image

Charles Krupa/Associated Press

 

John Henry, the principal owner of the Red Sox, in the Fenway Park scoreboard. Boston collapsed last season; Liverpool has failed to inspire in 2012.

 

The Red Sox finished 7-20 last September and missed the playoffs. The new season has brought a nervous start. Meanwhile, Liverpool has won only 3 of its 14 Premier League matches in 2012 and has had its reputation sullied in the clumsy handling of a case of on-field racial taunting by Luis Su?rez, its star Uruguayan forward.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool fired its director of soccer, Damien Comolli, a Frenchman. In effect, Comolli took the fall for the profligate spending of about $175 million over the past 17 months in player acquisitions that have produced mediocre results. The signings generally appeared to contradict the “Moneyball” approach, favored by Henry, to spend judiciously on capable, lesser-known players.

 

“We feel there is enough talent on the pitch to win,” Tom Werner, Liverpool’s (and the Red Sox’) American chairman, told reporters, “and we’ve been dissatisfied, as most supporters have been, with the results so far.”

 

On Saturday at Wembley Stadium, Liverpool found some consolation with the awakening of the somnolent forward Andy Carroll and a late 2-1 victory over its city rival Everton in a semifinal of the F.A. Cup, a tournament open to all divisions of English soccer. In February, Liverpool won the Carling Cup, a lesser domestic tournament that put hardware in the club’s trophy case for the first time in six years.

 

A second trophy, the F.A. Cup, would mitigate the disappointment but not redeem this season for many Liverpool fans. Manchester United appears headed toward a 20th league title, while Liverpool remains stuck for two decades on 18, last having won a league crown in 1990, its present struggles a dim comparison with a shimmering past.

 

Drifting in eighth place in the Premier League, Liverpool will miss out on next season’s European Champions League, considered the world’s best club competition, for the third consecutive season. The absence could lead to the loss of $45 million or more in revenue and to a decreased willingness of top players to join the club.

 

“It would be good to win two cups, but I guess the majority of fans would probably still be disappointed,” said Peter Harmsworth, 59, a family therapist from Liverpool. “Liverpool won’t have been seen as making any progress since last year, while Manchester United has continued to do well. That’s what really gets people, when your biggest rival wins again.”

 

The Red Sox and Liverpool have struggled recently from the extravagant acquisitions of players who have underperformed. Most noticeably this has been the case with Boston outfielder Carl Crawford and Liverpool’s Carroll, who was bought from Newcastle in January 2011 for $55.8 million, a club record, but who has since delivered only six goals in the Premier League and 10 over all.

 

“You think of the optimism both fan bases seemed to have 12 to 18 months ago, versus both fan bases being pretty dejected at the moment,” said Jonathan Meltzer, 26, a second-year Yale Law School student and a fan of the Red Sox and Liverpool.

 

In fairness, Henry, who made his fortune as a futures trader and who did not respond to a request for an interview, remains a respected owner in both cities. His Red Sox, after all, won the World Series in 2004 and 2007 after eight decades of futility.

 

Still, in Boston, where the Red Sox have started slowly for the second consecutive season, there is some itchy concern in the news media that Henry may be paying too much attention to soccer and not enough to baseball.

 

“He’s had the appearance of being distracted, absent, focused elsewhere,” said Dan Shaughnessy, a longtime columnist at The Boston Globe.

 

In England, the news-media portrayal of Henry is as an attentive, even ruthless, owner who has a clear strategy for success and is impatient with failure. “Americans show who is in control,” The Times of London said in a Friday headline after Comolli was fired.

 

Upon buying Liverpool in October 2010 for about $480 million, Henry and the Fenway Sports Group were seen as saviors, having rescued the club from the previous American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr., who had debts of about $375 million, did not get a new stadium deal and were widely disliked by fans. (The New York Times owns part of Fenway Sports Group.)

 

“When Henry arrived, anyone would have been perceived to be better than Hicks and Gillett,” said Tom Cannon, a professor of strategic development at the University of Liverpool. “He was seen as an astute businessman with a plan.”

 

Yet Henry and Werner received mixed reviews for Liverpool’s handling of an episode last October, when Su?rez directed racial taunts at Manchester United’s Patrice Evra, who is black, during a match. Su?rez was suspended for eight games and later refused to shake Evra’s hand in a pregame ritual.

 

Meanwhile, Liverpool’s manager, Kenny Dalglish, and players wore T-shirts in support of Su?rez, a gesture that drew widespread criticism, given international soccer’s stated policy of zero tolerance for racism. Su?rez apologized for the handshake snub in February, an act of contrition that Henry and Werner were credited with orchestrating. Still, they were criticized for not acting sooner and more forcefully.

 

“The general view is that the people from Boston said, ‘Stop arguing; let’s close this down,’ ” Cannon said. “Still, it hurt the club. Liverpool historically has been seen as a progressive club that did the right thing.”

 

There are considerable roadblocks to returning to something like the glory days of 1972 to 1990, when Liverpool won the English league 11 times and the European title 4 times. (A fifth Champions League title came in 2005.) Anfield, Liverpool’s revered stadium, is aging, holds only 45,000 fans and is fitted with fewer corporate amenities than newer Premier League stadiums. Liverpool is also the poorest among the major soccer cities in England, Cannon said.

 

The prestige and financial gain of the Champions League remain elusive. And Liverpool’s standing with Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal as the big four of the Premier League has been challenged by Manchester City and Tottenham.

 

“The Liverpool problems are probably more serious and fundamental than that of the Red Sox,” said Stefan Szymanski, a Briton who co-wrote the book “Soccernomics” and teaches sports management at the University of Michigan.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool gave a vote of confidence to Dalglish, 61, a Scotsman known as King Kenny, who has faced criticism for a perceived over-reliance on British-born players, questionable tactical decisions and remarks about a supposed referees conspiracy against his team.

 

Still, Dalglish is widely revered. He is considered Liverpool’s greatest player, and he led the club to three league titles in a previous stint as the manager. He also accumulated enormous good will for his compassionate, stabilizing behavior after 96 Liverpool fans died in a stadium crush known as the Hillsborough disaster.

 

A moment of silence before Saturday’s match commemorated the 23rd anniversary of the tragedy. Then Liverpool tried to atone somewhat for this troubled season. Carroll had scored a winner in added time Tuesday against Blackburn. Against Everton, though, he missed twice, pulling his jersey over his face after driving a header wide from close range in the 47th minute.

 

Then, with the score tied at 1-1 in the 87th minute, facing away from goal, Carroll angled a free kick into the net with the back of his head. All the complaints about fat contracts and thin goal production fell away for the moment. A team and its coach and its fans found something to celebrate in a dour season.

 

“We showed a little what Liverpool are,” defender Jamie Carragher said.

Furthermore you find this in the Guardian

Kenny Dalglish

 

Where it all went wrong for Liverpool and Kenny Dalglish

 

Kenny Dalglish has been found wanting with signings and his stance during the Luis Su?rez affair

 

Ten facts to put Liverpool's dismal league campaign into context

 

Twitter 'racist abuse' of Newcastle's James Perch investigated by police

 

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat

 

Video In video: Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat

 

Papiss Ciss?'s double for Newcastle makes more trouble for Liverpool

 

Fan charged over 'racist gesture' during Liverpool v Manchester United

 

Related

 

11 Sep 2011

 

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish shows strain after Stoke defeat

 

24 Jan 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish defends criticism of Liverpool players after Bolton loss

 

2 Apr 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat - video

 

7 Mar 2011

 

Kenny Dalglish demands a winning sequence from Liverpool

 

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[Elktonnick]

Tons of supporting evidence

 

It isa obvious you aren't someone who deserves either respect or a reply in the future.

[pedroias laser]

What are you talking about ? Who the hell are you calling a liar I think I deserve an apology>

This was published in the New York Times on Apr 14

 

For Liverpool and Red Sox, the Same Owner and Parallel Debacles

By JER? LONGMAN

Published: April 14, 2012

 

LONDON — John Henry is the principal owner of two of the sporting world’s most visible, storied and valuable franchises — the Red Sox of Boston and the Reds of Liverpool. Yet at the moment, his baseball and soccer teams are united not in towering success but in stunning collapse.

Enlarge This Image

Christopher Lee/Getty Images

 

John Henry, left, with Tom Werner. Henry is the principal owner of the Liverpool soccer team and the Red Sox, and Werner is the chairman of both.

Enlarge This Image

Charles Krupa/Associated Press

 

John Henry, the principal owner of the Red Sox, in the Fenway Park scoreboard. Boston collapsed last season; Liverpool has failed to inspire in 2012.

 

The Red Sox finished 7-20 last September and missed the playoffs. The new season has brought a nervous start. Meanwhile, Liverpool has won only 3 of its 14 Premier League matches in 2012 and has had its reputation sullied in the clumsy handling of a case of on-field racial taunting by Luis Su?rez, its star Uruguayan forward.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool fired its director of soccer, Damien Comolli, a Frenchman. In effect, Comolli took the fall for the profligate spending of about $175 million over the past 17 months in player acquisitions that have produced mediocre results. The signings generally appeared to contradict the “Moneyball” approach, favored by Henry, to spend judiciously on capable, lesser-known players.

 

“We feel there is enough talent on the pitch to win,” Tom Werner, Liverpool’s (and the Red Sox’) American chairman, told reporters, “and we’ve been dissatisfied, as most supporters have been, with the results so far.”

 

On Saturday at Wembley Stadium, Liverpool found some consolation with the awakening of the somnolent forward Andy Carroll and a late 2-1 victory over its city rival Everton in a semifinal of the F.A. Cup, a tournament open to all divisions of English soccer. In February, Liverpool won the Carling Cup, a lesser domestic tournament that put hardware in the club’s trophy case for the first time in six years.

 

A second trophy, the F.A. Cup, would mitigate the disappointment but not redeem this season for many Liverpool fans. Manchester United appears headed toward a 20th league title, while Liverpool remains stuck for two decades on 18, last having won a league crown in 1990, its present struggles a dim comparison with a shimmering past.

 

Drifting in eighth place in the Premier League, Liverpool will miss out on next season’s European Champions League, considered the world’s best club competition, for the third consecutive season. The absence could lead to the loss of $45 million or more in revenue and to a decreased willingness of top players to join the club.

 

“It would be good to win two cups, but I guess the majority of fans would probably still be disappointed,” said Peter Harmsworth, 59, a family therapist from Liverpool. “Liverpool won’t have been seen as making any progress since last year, while Manchester United has continued to do well. That’s what really gets people, when your biggest rival wins again.”

 

The Red Sox and Liverpool have struggled recently from the extravagant acquisitions of players who have underperformed. Most noticeably this has been the case with Boston outfielder Carl Crawford and Liverpool’s Carroll, who was bought from Newcastle in January 2011 for $55.8 million, a club record, but who has since delivered only six goals in the Premier League and 10 over all.

 

“You think of the optimism both fan bases seemed to have 12 to 18 months ago, versus both fan bases being pretty dejected at the moment,” said Jonathan Meltzer, 26, a second-year Yale Law School student and a fan of the Red Sox and Liverpool.

 

In fairness, Henry, who made his fortune as a futures trader and who did not respond to a request for an interview, remains a respected owner in both cities. His Red Sox, after all, won the World Series in 2004 and 2007 after eight decades of futility.

 

Still, in Boston, where the Red Sox have started slowly for the second consecutive season, there is some itchy concern in the news media that Henry may be paying too much attention to soccer and not enough to baseball.

 

“He’s had the appearance of being distracted, absent, focused elsewhere,” said Dan Shaughnessy, a longtime columnist at The Boston Globe.

 

In England, the news-media portrayal of Henry is as an attentive, even ruthless, owner who has a clear strategy for success and is impatient with failure. “Americans show who is in control,” The Times of London said in a Friday headline after Comolli was fired.

 

Upon buying Liverpool in October 2010 for about $480 million, Henry and the Fenway Sports Group were seen as saviors, having rescued the club from the previous American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr., who had debts of about $375 million, did not get a new stadium deal and were widely disliked by fans. (The New York Times owns part of Fenway Sports Group.)

 

“When Henry arrived, anyone would have been perceived to be better than Hicks and Gillett,” said Tom Cannon, a professor of strategic development at the University of Liverpool. “He was seen as an astute businessman with a plan.”

 

Yet Henry and Werner received mixed reviews for Liverpool’s handling of an episode last October, when Su?rez directed racial taunts at Manchester United’s Patrice Evra, who is black, during a match. Su?rez was suspended for eight games and later refused to shake Evra’s hand in a pregame ritual.

 

Meanwhile, Liverpool’s manager, Kenny Dalglish, and players wore T-shirts in support of Su?rez, a gesture that drew widespread criticism, given international soccer’s stated policy of zero tolerance for racism. Su?rez apologized for the handshake snub in February, an act of contrition that Henry and Werner were credited with orchestrating. Still, they were criticized for not acting sooner and more forcefully.

 

“The general view is that the people from Boston said, ‘Stop arguing; let’s close this down,’ ” Cannon said. “Still, it hurt the club. Liverpool historically has been seen as a progressive club that did the right thing.”

 

There are considerable roadblocks to returning to something like the glory days of 1972 to 1990, when Liverpool won the English league 11 times and the European title 4 times. (A fifth Champions League title came in 2005.) Anfield, Liverpool’s revered stadium, is aging, holds only 45,000 fans and is fitted with fewer corporate amenities than newer Premier League stadiums. Liverpool is also the poorest among the major soccer cities in England, Cannon said.

 

The prestige and financial gain of the Champions League remain elusive. And Liverpool’s standing with Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal as the big four of the Premier League has been challenged by Manchester City and Tottenham.

 

“The Liverpool problems are probably more serious and fundamental than that of the Red Sox,” said Stefan Szymanski, a Briton who co-wrote the book “Soccernomics” and teaches sports management at the University of Michigan.

 

On Thursday, Liverpool gave a vote of confidence to Dalglish, 61, a Scotsman known as King Kenny, who has faced criticism for a perceived over-reliance on British-born players, questionable tactical decisions and remarks about a supposed referees conspiracy against his team.

 

Still, Dalglish is widely revered. He is considered Liverpool’s greatest player, and he led the club to three league titles in a previous stint as the manager. He also accumulated enormous good will for his compassionate, stabilizing behavior after 96 Liverpool fans died in a stadium crush known as the Hillsborough disaster.

 

A moment of silence before Saturday’s match commemorated the 23rd anniversary of the tragedy. Then Liverpool tried to atone somewhat for this troubled season. Carroll had scored a winner in added time Tuesday against Blackburn. Against Everton, though, he missed twice, pulling his jersey over his face after driving a header wide from close range in the 47th minute.

 

Then, with the score tied at 1-1 in the 87th minute, facing away from goal, Carroll angled a free kick into the net with the back of his head. All the complaints about fat contracts and thin goal production fell away for the moment. A team and its coach and its fans found something to celebrate in a dour season.

 

“We showed a little what Liverpool are,” defender Jamie Carragher said.

Furthermore you find this in the Guardian

Kenny Dalglish

 

Where it all went wrong for Liverpool and Kenny Dalglish

 

Kenny Dalglish has been found wanting with signings and his stance during the Luis Su?rez affair

 

Ten facts to put Liverpool's dismal league campaign into context

 

Twitter 'racist abuse' of Newcastle's James Perch investigated by police

 

Andy Carroll storms off at Newcastle as Kenny Dalglish feels the heat

 

Video In video: Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat

 

Papiss Ciss?'s double for Newcastle makes more trouble for Liverpool

 

Fan charged over 'racist gesture' during Liverpool v Manchester United

 

Related

 

11 Sep 2011

 

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish shows strain after Stoke defeat

 

24 Jan 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish defends criticism of Liverpool players after Bolton loss

 

2 Apr 2012

 

Kenny Dalglish 'frustrated' after Newcastle defeat - video

 

7 Mar 2011

 

Kenny Dalglish demands a winning sequence from Liverpool

 

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So Wait a minute you actually took from that article that the Sox Owners are spending more time with the Soccer team then us?. Also they quoted Dickboy from the Globe are

you kidding me. I strike a motion right now that your argument is baseless and bull.

[jung]

Just s note of warning guys...the site seems to be bogged down in traffic or more likely the server is acting up. Ya wanna' give your posts some time before trying to post again because it is just slow right now.

[Elktonnick]

So Wait a minute you actually took from that article that the Sox Owners are spending more time with the Soccer team then us?. Also they quoted Dickboy from the Globe are

you kidding me. I strike a motion right now that your argument is baseless and bull.

 

No you are misquoting me. What I said was there was ample reporting about the problems with Liverpool that were similar to those of the Red Sox. I was called a liar saying that here wasn't ample reporting on this which there was.

 

I have for sometime saw that Henry was becoming d less interseted in the Sox. I am not the only one who feels this way. Several commentators have wondered and saw the same things. I believe virtually everyone on the baseball show have wondered the same.

 

Anyone who has large portfolios knows that when senior management spreads itself thin tthat all enterprises suffer. We are seeing that with both Liverpool and Boston. IMO if I were going to concentrate on one over the other it would be Liverpool for the reasons I set forth above.

 

Dis agreee if you will but therhas been ample reporting on both Liverpool and Boston's problems QED

[jung]

Well if FSG is to some extent "ignoring" the Sox, that might be the best evidence that if the Sox do intend or did intend selling the Sox in the short run, those plans may have been put on hold for bit. Organizations come under a great deal of scrutiny on the ramp up to a sales process. Managers generally are under a microscope with every decision and every result scrutinized.

 

My guess is that they are in this for a longer period intended or not. They do look organizationally thin though. Just to much that seems to land on to few desks and a number of these decisions especially as far as PR is concerned seem pretty lame for both teams. How the hell do Liverpool coaches and players get away with wearing T-shirts supporting a player so blatantly involved ins a race related incident? There does seem to be as much falling through the cracks for both Liverpool and Boston. Geez what is it? There are not enough competent people available in this economy?

[jung]

Well if FSG is to some extent "ignoring" the Sox, that might be the best evidence that if the Sox do intend or did intend selling the Sox in the short run, those plans may have been put on hold for bit. Organizations come under a great deal of scrutiny on the ramp up to a sales process. Managers generally are under a microscope with every decision and every result scrutinized.

 

My guess is that they are in this for a longer period intended or not. They do look organizationally thin though. Just to much that seems to land on to few desks and a number of these decisions especially as far as PR is concerned seem pretty lame for both teams. How the hell do Liverpool coaches and players get away with wearing T-shirts supporting a player so blatantly involved ins a race related incident? There does seem to be as much falling through the cracks for both Liverpool and Boston. Geez what is it? There are not enough competent people available in this economy?

[pedroias laser]

No you are misquoting me. What I said was there was ample reporting about the problems with Liverpool that were similar to those of the Red Sox. I was called a liar saying that here wasn't ample reporting on this which there was.

 

I have for sometime saw that Henry was becoming d less interseted in the Sox. I am not the only one who feels this way. Several commentators have wondered and saw the same things. I believe virtually everyone on the baseball show have wondered the same.

 

Anyone who has large portfolios knows that when senior management spreads itself thin tthat all enterprises suffer. We are seeing that with both Liverpool and Boston. IMO if I were going to concentrate on one over the other it would be Liverpool for the reasons I set forth above.

 

Dis agreee if you will but therhas been ample reporting on both Liverpool and Boston's problems QED

 

 

My apologies then buddy. But i do see where you could have a real argument then

especially with me just re-reading the article and yea i could see where JH could be

trying to much with the soccer brand.

[SeanP]

My apologies then buddy. But i do see where you could have a real argument then

especially with me just re-reading the article and yea i could see where JH could be

trying to much with the soccer brand.

 

There is no evidence that JH is trying to sell the team

[mvp 78]

The comedy of errors has little to do with Liverpool. JH doesn't run the team, LL does. He said so himself.

 

The problem is they wanted to make a change from last year, but they only put lipstick on a pig with the BV hire.

[SeanP]

It isa obvious you aren't someone who deserves either respect or a reply in the future.

 

I have no respect for people who make stuff up

 

You should apologize to whoever taught you how to read since there is no evidence that JH is selling the team