What if we went all-out on D? (warning: Dojji is thinking, read at own risk)

[seabeachfred]

Thanks for the update ORS; I didn't think Lin had that kind of speed. When I see how Dojji goes into a lather over Lin I have to remind myself that I am the same way about Lavarnway and the way I was about Pedroia and Ellsbury when they were coming up the ranks and how disappointed I was that Lowrie never joined them in the pantheon of solid young Red Sox players. I hated to be wrong on him. Dojji apparently loves Lin as a player but looking at his minor le ague record the problem I have is that he has shown no real improvement in his hitting the past few years. We play half our games in a hitter's park so it would seem logical to me that we should try for a balance of a good defensive player who can also hit ...the complete player. Lin is not that.....I only hope Ryan Lavarway turns out to be just that.

[redsoxfan3]

Thanks for the update ORS; I didn't think Lin had that kind of speed. When I see how Dojji goes into a lather over Lin I have to remind myself that I am the same way about Lavarnway and the way I was about Pedroia and Ellsbury when they were coming up the ranks and how disappointed I was that Lowrie never joined them in the pantheon of solid young Red Sox players. I hated to be wrong on him. Dojji apparently loves Lin as a player but looking at his minor le ague record the problem I have is that he has shown no real improvement in his hitting the past few years. We play half our games in a hitter's park so it would seem logical to me that we should try for a balance of a good defensive player who can also hit ...the complete player. Lin is not that.....I only hope Ryan Lavarway turns out to be just that.

 

I feel the same way you do about Lavarnway. I also am big on Middlebrooks. His time is coming in the near future. Youk better step it up this year. If he has another s***** injury prone year, he might find himself packing his bags and leaving town next year. If Big Papi has a decent year, then I don't see why the FO won't try to bring him back again, it seems like they want him to stick around. If that is the the case, then there is no DH spot available for Youk. This is a make or break year for him at 3B. I really hope that Lavarnway and Middlebrooks both can become very good major league players. I like Lin, I just don't see a place for him on the roster this year. When Crawford gets healthy and if Kalish gets healthy and gets a spot on the roster, then we will have Crawford, Ells, Ross, Sweeney, McDonald, and Kalish. That is 6 outfielders. We are only going to carry five at the most, so if Kalish comes back then that means we will have to figure out what to do with either Sweeney or McDonald. I could see us seriously consider keeping Ciriaco for the last spot on the bench to start the year. He has had a good Spring so far. If he keeps it up, it might be hard to keep him off of the roster.

[Dojji]

I could see us seriously consider keeping Ciriaco for the last spot on the bench to start the year. He has had a good Spring so far. If he keeps it up' date=' it might be hard to keep him off of the roster.[/quote']

 

I couldn't. I think Ciriaco is too far behind the 8 ball. Much like your sense of Lin. Ciriaco just has too many decent infielders and utility types ahead of him. We're going to have 5 outfielders on the roster at leat until we know what's going on with Crawford. That really hurts Ciriaco.

 

I think Ciriaco has a real chance to put himself in the mix for a September callup and to be considered a worthwhile replacement if we have an injury to a backup infielder. That's a success insofar as what he had to look forward to when he was signed to a minor league deal. That's the kind of success guys like Ciriaco have to look forward to in Spring Training.

[a700hitter]

I couldn't. I think Ciriaco is too far behind the 8 ball. Much like your sense of Lin. Ciriaco just has too many decent infielders and utility types ahead of him. We're going to have 5 outfielders on the roster at leat until we know what's going on with Crawford. That really hurts Ciriaco.

 

I think Ciriaco has a real chance to put himself in the mix for a September callup and to be considered a worthwhile replacement if we have an injury to a backup infielder. That's a success insofar as what he had to look forward to when he was signed to a minor league deal. That's the kind of success guys like Ciriaco have to look forward to in Spring Training.

Plus, it is likely that they will come north with 12 pitchers, because Doubront, Miller and Bowden are all out of options. Assume they are all in the pen, we will also have Bailey, Melancon, Albers, and Morales in the pen. Padilla, Cook and Ohlendorf will have to start the season in the minors.

[Dojji]

His speed is not "maybe above average". It's good' date=' as is his glove, routes to the ball, and batting eye. His problem is that he struggles to make good contact, and that's facing minor league pitching. He'd get murdered by big league pitchers right now. And this is not a case like Reddick where you could suggest he'd improve in the bigs. Reddick was actually hitting the ball hard in AAA, but getting unlucky. The book on Lin is that he can't put the fat part of the bat on the ball.[/quote']

 

And while conceding your entire point, there's two reasons I'm convinced that that may be an insufficient impediment.

 

First: Our corner outfield SUCKS. Even with Crawford, we have a guy who's only good for 1-1.5 WAR manning one of our corner outfield spots. If Kalish has any further setbacks in his recovery, that could be true for awhile. It's not like any outfielder on our roster is blocked by an elite player (except for centerfield, of course. Bad luck there, Che-Hsuan).

 

Second: The offense standard for players with high level speed and good defense, in terms of average and power, aren't that high. I do hold out hope that he will eventually work out the whole quality contact thing and line up the ball just a bit better. But while that would help, I'm not convinced it's strictly necessary to match the 1-1.5 WAR standard he'd currently have to beat to be a good option.

 

If he can manage a .250 average and an OBP in the .330 range, which is more or less his career level in the minors, that combined with the speed he can bring to the table (which is good to very good) could make him a player who provides a slight positive offensive contribution. This is not a guy who needs to slug .450 to make himself useful (readily conceding that it would obviously help)

 

Add that to what he's going to bring in defensively, especially if he plays in centerfield where he has a chance to make more plays and exploit his value better defensively, and you have a guy who could start. Pertinent question being, could he start in Boston? We have somewhat higher standards for our outfielders offensively than most of the league.

 

But if Carlos Gomez keeps getting chances to set himself up as a starting CF, I can't imagine Lin wouldn't get one somewhere.

[User Name]

Focus on one point at a time:

 

Can he get an opportunity somewhere? Sure, and the Carlos Gomez comparison is valid.

 

Can he be a starter in Boston? No, and you're grossly twisting the corner OF situation. When crawford gets back, a RF platoon of Ross and Sweeney would be infinitely more productive than anything Lin could bring to the table, because he simply can't hit.

[Elktonnick]

Focus on one point at a time:

 

Can he get an opportunity somewhere? Sure, and the Carlos Gomez comparison is valid.

 

Can he be a starter in Boston? No, and you're grossly twisting the corner OF situation. When crawford gets back, a RF platoon of Ross and Sweeney would be infinitely more productive than anything Lin could bring to the table, because he simply can't hit.

 

From what I've seen Lin is not having a very good spring so far.

[ORS]

Second: The offense standard for players with high level speed and good defense' date=' in terms of average and power, aren't that high. I do hold out hope that he will eventually work out the whole quality contact thing and line up the ball just a bit better. But while that would help, I'm not convinced it's strictly necessary to match the 1-1.5 WAR standard he'd currently have to beat to be a good option.[/quote']

Where are you getting 1-1.5 WAR from?

 

I think these guys are going to be used in a platoon, or at least they should be (when Crawford returns), although Valentine will likely ride the hot hand in stretches when one becomes evident. Here are their platoon splits:

 

Ross vs LHP - .282/.349/.563

Sweeney vs RHP - .296/.352/.402

 

When you allow for RHP being predominant and some instances where the hot hand is used out of the platoon role, I think you can reasonably expect a .285/.345/.450 line from those two. Just as a point of reference, Michael Cuddyer hit .284/.346/.459 last year in 139 games playing average defense, which was good for a WAR of 3.1.

[jacksonianmarch]

maybe because Carlos Gomez has game breaking speed and has shown all the tools at times, he just cannot put them together consistently. Lin does not have Gomez' speed, very few do.

[Dojji]

maybe because Carlos Gomez has game breaking speed and has shown all the tools at times' date=' he just cannot put them together consistently. Lin does not have Gomez' speed, very few do.[/quote']

 

Very few do have Gomez' speed, but Lin is one of the few who at least comes close.

[example1]

I went to spring training the other day. Got a chance to watch Lin and Hassan take BP on a back field prior to the game. Ive always liked Lins promise athletically but was pretty underwhelmed with that very short BP session. Grain of salt, but if he were a reasonable prospect to earn significant time the sox would be regularly starting him in ST. They aren't.

[jacksonianmarch]

Very few do have Gomez' speed' date=' but Lin is one of the few who at least comes close.[/quote']

 

No, he doesnt come close. You are overblowing this kid's speed. He's got good speed. Not game breaking speed. Gomez has game breaking speed. Lin has good speed. There is a significant difference