2011 ALDS: Tigers @ Yankees

[iortiz]

Up your ass Jacko!!! A700 is right once again!!!!:lol::harhar::harhar:

 

Be a man. Keep your sig.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Read my sig Jacko :harhar:

 

Just kidding man!

[example1]

And the entire Al East has moved on to the hot stove season...

 

I wonder when Cashman will be fired?

 

Big payroll? Check

High expectations by fans? Check

Underachievement? Check

 

According to the logic used by many on this board for the Sox, Cashman is as good as gone. Making the playoffs simply isn't enough. This team just wasn't good enough. To have Nova start that last game with that payroll? To only have one true ace, someone should be held accountable. Results are all that matter so I suspect that everyone will call for Girardis head. They got to the playoffs? That's an excuse. Lost in game 5 to legitimately good Tigers team? Results are all that matter in these parts. Girardis and Cashman should pack their bags. blow the team up, terrible unwatchable team.

 

Of course I'm mostly being sarcastic. Cashman got this team where he could with rusted versions of set pitchers who drastically overprrformed. Glad they lost.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Up your ass Jacko!!! A700 is right once again!!!!:lol::harhar::harhar:

 

Be a man. Keep your sig.

 

I

 

TIGERS WIN! TIGERS WIN!

 

Whoooooo!

 

Girardi' date=' there's no crying in baseball!!!! Poetic justice still exists in the world![/quote']

 

Wait, he cried? Bahahahahahaha. Sorry I enjoy Yankees staff upset funny.

 

THHHHHEEEEEEEEEE YANNNKKKEEEEEEEES LOOOOOSE!!!!!!!

 

The collapse is less painful right now

 

Hell yeah it is. This makes me want to watch postseason baseball now.

 

Good luck to the Yankees in the ALCS.

 

Wait what? But Jacko told me...

 

Shame on you Coco. A700 called months before it happen. Step your game up mod guy

[Palodios]

And the entire Al East has moved on to the hot stove season...

 

I wonder when Cashman will be fired?

 

Big payroll? Check

High expectations by fans? Check

Underachievement? Check

 

According to the logic used by many on this board for the Sox, Cashman is as good as gone. Making the playoffs simply isn't enough. This team just wasn't good enough. To have Nova start that last game with that payroll? To only have one true ace, someone should be held accountable. Results are all that matter so I suspect that everyone will call for Girardis head. They got to the playoffs? That's an excuse. Lost in game 5 to legitimately good Tigers team? Results are all that matter in these parts. Girardis and Cashman should pack their bags. blow the team up, terrible unwatchable team.

 

Of course I'm mostly being sarcastic. Cashman got this team where he could with rusted versions of set pitchers who drastically overprrformed. Glad they lost.

 

:lol:

[a700hitter]

And the entire Al East has moved on to the hot stove season...

 

I wonder when Cashman will be fired?

 

Big payroll? Check

High expectations by fans? Check

Underachievement? Check

 

According to the logic used by many on this board for the Sox, Cashman is as good as gone. Making the playoffs simply isn't enough. This team just wasn't good enough. To have Nova start that last game with that payroll? To only have one true ace, someone should be held accountable. Results are all that matter so I suspect that everyone will call for Girardis head. They got to the playoffs? That's an excuse. Lost in game 5 to legitimately good Tigers team? Results are all that matter in these parts. Girardis and Cashman should pack their bags. blow the team up, terrible unwatchable team.

 

Of course I'm mostly being sarcastic. Cashman got this team where he could with rusted versions of set pitchers who drastically overprrformed. Glad they lost.

They always have a big payroll, but because they made no major off season acquisition, missed out on Cliff Lee and we made 2 huge acquisitions, most Yankee expected the Sox to finish ahead of them. In that regard, the 2011 Yankees surpassed expectations and certainly with the emergence of Nova and the contributions of Colon and Garcia and the All Star year from Robertson, they over achieved. If Cashman's contract is up, I would love for the Sox to poach him.

[a700hitter]

Now that the Yankees have been eliminated, I can devote most of my attention to Football. I really don't care who wins from here on out. I do hate Philly fans almost as much as Yankee fans, and they might even be the biggest ******* fans in sports. It would be fun to see them get eliminated.

[example1]

They always have a big payroll' date=' but because they made no major off season acquisition, missed out on Cliff Lee and we made 2 huge acquisitions, most Yankee expected the Sox to finish ahead of them. In that regard, the 2011 Yankees surpassed expectations and certainly with the emergence of Nova and the contributions of Colon and Garcia and the All Star year from Robertson, they over achieved. If Cashman's contract is up, I would love for the Sox to poach him.[/quote']

 

Ha! So Nova walking out in the 2nd inning of the key game and the Yankees having low expectations and no "major offseason acquisition" (aside from signing Jeter for 19m or something for a few more years) Cashman retains his solid GM status in your eyes? You would have said those were "excuses" if I had used them about Theo in, say, 2009. We can talk about all the other factors and the OPS's and all that s***, but they didn't win and that's what matters. They just weren't good enough.

 

They can't blame injuries, and they can't blame Cliff Lee. For that much money, the team's only expectation should have been winning the World Series, right? I mean, the difference between the Red Sox payroll (161m) and the Yankees payroll (202m) was merely the Tampa Bay Rays payroll (41m). Why would we expect the Yankees to win the World Series with such a small advantage over the other team that was expected to win the World Series?

 

The grass is always greener until the team you fear/envy/compare yourself to is also sitting at home watching the rest of the playoffs with you. Clearly, you punished the Red Sox for having high expectations... for having put together what was, on paper, a good team.

 

I don't think you're wrong about Cashman, to be honest. I think he's a very competent GM. I just think that the exact arguments that you and iOrtiz were using about Theo and Co can be leveled at Cash and co. Since I don't necessairly agree with the validity of your criticism of Theo I wouldn't agree with the same criticism of Cashman, but with even more payroll I don't see how "they didn't have as high expectations" is anything other than an excuse in your eyes. :dunno:

[VA Sox Fan]

They always have a big payroll' date=' but because they made no major off season acquisition, missed out on Cliff Lee and we made 2 huge acquisitions, most Yankee expected the Sox to finish ahead of them. In that regard, the 2011 Yankees surpassed expectations and certainly with the emergence of Nova and the contributions of Colon and Garcia and the All Star year from Robertson, they over achieved. If Cashman's contract is up, I would love for the Sox to poach him.[/quote']

 

I'm never ready for football. Looking forward to the rest of the games. Play offs have been great so far!!

 

SO GLAD THE YANKEES LOST! WHOOOOOO!!!!! :thumbsup:

[boston22407]

DET in 5' date='Justin puts his team on his back[/quote']

 

[Palodios]

They always have a big payroll' date=' but because they made no major off season acquisition, missed out on Cliff Lee and we made 2 huge acquisitions, most Yankee expected the Sox to finish ahead of them. In that regard, the 2011 Yankees surpassed expectations and certainly with the emergence of Nova and the contributions of Colon and Garcia and the All Star year from Robertson, they over achieved. If Cashman's contract is up, I would love for the Sox to poach him.[/quote']

 

And if they made the deal for Cliff Lee, and he pitched like he has been for the Phillies in New York? Then what?

[a700hitter]

And if they made the deal for Cliff Lee' date=' and he pitched like he has been for the Phillies in New York? Then what?[/quote']They'd be in the ALCS probably.

[example1]

They'd be in the ALCS probably.

 

Isn't missing out on Cliff Lee Cashman's fault? Didn't it mean that Cashman put an inferior product on the field? Or does losing suddenly not matter now?

[a700hitter]

Ha! So Nova walking out in the 2nd inning of the key game and the Yankees having low expectations and no "major offseason acquisition" (aside from signing Jeter for 19m or something for a few more years) Cashman retains his solid GM status in your eyes? You would have said those were "excuses" if I had used them about Theo in, say, 2009. We can talk about all the other factors and the OPS's and all that s***, but they didn't win and that's what matters. They just weren't good enough.

 

They can't blame injuries, and they can't blame Cliff Lee. For that much money, the team's only expectation should have been winning the World Series, right? I mean, the difference between the Red Sox payroll (161m) and the Yankees payroll (202m) was merely the Tampa Bay Rays payroll (41m). Why would we expect the Yankees to win the World Series with such a small advantage over the other team that was expected to win the World Series?

 

The grass is always greener until the team you fear/envy/compare yourself to is also sitting at home watching the rest of the playoffs with you. Clearly, you punished the Red Sox for having high expectations... for having put together what was, on paper, a good team.

 

I don't think you're wrong about Cashman, to be honest. I think he's a very competent GM. I just think that the exact arguments that you and iOrtiz were using about Theo and Co can be leveled at Cash and co. Since I don't necessairly agree with the validity of your criticism of Theo I wouldn't agree with the same criticism of Cashman, but with even more payroll I don't see how "they didn't have as high expectations" is anything other than an excuse in your eyes. :dunno:

The Yankees have made the playoffs in 15 of the last 16 seasons and won 5 World Championships and been in 7 World Series in that period. We've missed the playoffs two years in a row and we haven't won a post season game since 2008. Theo's record or the last three years doesn't compare well with Cashman's.

[a700hitter]

Isn't missing out on Cliff Lee Cashman's fault? Didn't it mean that Cashman put an inferior product on the field? Or does losing suddenly not matter now?

You are just being argumentative now. Lee was a fool to walk away from an additional $24 million. It's hard to fault Cashman for that.

[Palodios]

You are just being argumentative now. Lee was a fool to walk away from an additional $24 million. It's hard to fault Cashman for that.

 

That's what we call a Your-Fans-Spit-On-My-Wife Tax.

[VA Sox Fan]

That's what we call a Your-Fans-Spit-On-My-Wife Tax.

 

Really. Animals.

[OriginalUsername]

Brian Cashman is a pretty awful GM. Just because you have a blank check doesn't mean you're good. Any other team and these foolish contracts would be a hindrance.

 

AJ Burnett 82 Million

Justin Verlander 80 Million

 

Derek Jeter 51 Million

Jhonny Peralta 11 Million

 

Mark Texiera 180 Million

Miguel Cabrera 152 Million

 

Lets not forget Cashman handed out a contract to Alex Rodriguez that will pay him at least 20 million annually until the age of 42. Who else in baseball was going to even come close to giving A-Roid a 10 year 275 million dollar contract at the age of 32? They also sign a middle reliever to a 35 million dollar contract when they could've had Benoit for half that.

[a700hitter]

Brian Cashman is a pretty awful GM. Just because you have a blank check doesn't mean you're good. Any other team and these foolish contracts would be a hindrance.

 

AJ Burnett 82 Million

Justin Verlander 80 Million

 

Derek Jeter 51 Million

Jhonny Peralta 11 Million

 

Mark Texiera 180 Million

Miguel Cabrera 152 Million

 

Lets not forget Cashman handed out a contract to Alex Rodriguez that will pay him at least 20 million annually until the age of 42. Who else in baseball was going to even come close to giving A-Roid a 10 year 275 million dollar contract at the age of 32? They also sign a middle reliever to a 35 million dollar contract when they could've had Benoit for half that.

Sure he makes mistakes, but he has developed players within the organization who are stars like Cano and Robertson, others like Hughes and Nova. Plus, the Yankees win their Division basically every single season. You can't expect much more than that. Theo has also wasted a ton of money while failing to make the playoffs.

[Palodios]

Sure he makes mistakes' date=' but he has developed players within the organization who are stars like Cano and Robertson, others like Hughes and Nova. [/quote']

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Cashman has been a good GM. His decision to wrest control from the Boss and funnel gobs of money into the farm system has paid off already and will continue to pay off. Gardner, Cano, Hughes, Cervelli, Montero, Nunez, Nova, Robertson, Noesi, and Chamberlain are all recent MiLB grads and the deal for Granderson also involved home grown kids who are all excelling elsewhere. And you havent seen anything yet. This system is stacked to the gills. We were lucky to not have to use much of our SP depth this yr, but we have contingencies lining the row here. He's done a great job. And I am glad he didnt panic. We were within 1 run of winning the ALDS. That's not on him

[example1]

The Yankees have made the playoffs in 15 of the last 16 seasons and won 5 World Championships and been in 7 World Series in that period. We've missed the playoffs two years in a row and we haven't won a post season game since 2008. Theo's record or the last three years doesn't compare well with Cashman's.

 

Right... but they compare better than just about everyone else's. If it is all about accomplishment over a certain period (which is what you are arguing) then lets go back to record over Theo's tenure, or playoff appearances over that time, or World Series over that time. I mean, you said that evaluating based on accomplishments over his tenure isn't valid, but you're citing 5 world series and playoff appearances over 16 seasons?

 

2nd most wins since 2002

3rd most wins since 2009

2nd most playoff appearances since 2002 (in toughest division in baseball)

4 ALCS appearances

1st most World Series since 2001

 

I'm not personally concerned if Theo stays on forever, I just think it is absurd to whine about the Sox lack of success the past few years when things have been so good as a Sox fan since 2003. I realize you hold higher standards than that, you think they should win every season, but I don't think that's realistic based on what I've seen from other teams. The Yankees have managed it with significantly more money (but not much more success, unless you would be willing to trade a World Series victory for a few ALDS losses), and the Phillies have had a few good seasons because they made a few great signings. They also didn't play in the playoffs for most of the 2000s so make of that what you will.

 

Frankly, I'm not going to complain. I have high hopes for this club and think they will continue to be very very good for the foreseeable future.

[example1]

Sure he makes mistakes' date=' but he has developed players within the organization who are stars like [b']Pedroia[/b] and Papelbon, others like Lesterand Buchholz. Plus, the Red Sox compete for the Wild Card or make the playoffs basically every single season and have more WS than all other teams and made the playoffs more than all but one other team . You can't expect much more than that. Cashman has also wasted a ton of money while failing to win the ALCS despite regularly spending $40m more than the 2nd highest team .

 

Fixed.

 

Your defense of Cashman is eerily similar to my defense of Theo...

 

I think you're right about Cashman, frankly.

[OriginalUsername]

Wait, what has Hughes done? I'm not sure the Granderson trade was that great. Couldn't the Yankees have used Ian Kennedy in this series? A 200 million dollar payroll and you're resurrecting the corpses of Bortolo Colon and Freddy Garcia.

[a700hitter]

Fixed.

 

Your defense of Cashman is eerily similar to my defense of Theo...

 

I think you're right about Cashman, frankly.

The Yankees almost always winning the Division > Competing for the Wild Card every year

missing playoffs 3 times since 2003

 

But the real measure is the last 3 -4 years. Everything else is history. Look at the results and look at the talent in the systems. There is no comparison. Theo falls far short on both counts, and in comparison to Tampa, he falls way short on the system talent aspect and he's probably behind on results. Theo is the 3rd most effective GM in his own division for the last 3-4 seasons. Not a good record.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait' date=' what has Hughes done? I'm not sure the Granderson trade was that great. Couldn't the Yankees have used Ian Kennedy in this series? A 200 million dollar payroll and you're resurrecting the corpses of Bortolo Colon and Freddy Garcia.[/quote']

 

corpses who pitched very well. Hughes had a dead arm for a few months, something that a lot of second yr guys this yr seemed to go down with. And, he won 18 games last yr, so he isnt a slouch

[OriginalUsername]

corpses who pitched very well. Hughes had a dead arm for a few months' date=' something that a lot of second yr guys this yr seemed to go down with. And, he won 18 games last yr, so he isnt a slouch[/quote']

 

Games won is one of the worst stats there is. If Doug Fister pitched on the Yankees he would've won 20 games. Hughes can't even pitch 180 innings and gets a dead arm and he's suppose to be part of their future? Hughes has been in the league since 2007. Not exactly a second year player.

[jacksonianmarch]

Games won is one of the worst stats there is. If Doug Fister pitched on the Yankees he would've won 20 games. Hughes can't even pitch 180 innings and gets a dead arm and he's suppose to be part of their future? Hughes has been in the league since 2007. Not exactly a second year player.

 

You obviously arent very up to date on the Yankees here captain. Hughes was up in 2007, pulled a hammy and had some cameos later, but really wasnt a part of that year's plan. He pitched in 2008, got injured, missed most of the yr. In 2009, he was a shutdown reliever for us, being a key bridge on a team that won the world series. In 2010, he won 18 games, pitched to an ERA just north of 4 with a very respectable 1.25WHIP and 7.5K/9IP. But, he threw the most innings of his career at 192 (counting postseason). That was a jump of 60+, which is the worry area for a lot of these kids. He came back this yr and had nothing, something that Matusz and Cecil dealt with in the same division. Upon returning in the summer, he had better velocity, but couldnt hold it past the 4th inning, which is why he didnt get a start in the ALDS and Burnett did. His post ASB numbers werent even that bad, with a 1.34WHIP and 7.3K/9IP. He's a guy I expect to have a bounceback season in 2012. He just needs to show up to camp in shape and he needs to keep building up his arm strength. He'll be needed. 2011 was to be his second full season as a Yankee starting pitcher. It wasnt meant to be unfortunately

[OriginalUsername]

In other words the Yankees have developed two injury prone relievers in Hughes and Chamberlain. Still doesn't explain the bad contracts. Any other team except for the Red Sox would be hamstrung by these bad deals. 51 million for Jeter when Jhonny Peralta had a better season and made 5.5 million. 82 million for Burnett and the Yankees were concerned about him taking the mound. A-Rod making 30 million and making 20+ million till he's 42. Burnett hasn't worked out so the Yankees can just make a run at CJ Wilson or Cliff Lee like they did last year. You can't do that if you aren't the Yankees.

[a700hitter]

In other words the Yankees have developed two injury prone relievers in Hughes and Chamberlain. Still doesn't explain the bad contracts. Any other team except for the Red Sox would be hamstrung by these bad deals. 51 million for Jeter when Jhonny Peralta had a better season and made 5.5 million. 82 million for Burnett and the Yankees were concerned about him taking the mound. A-Rod making 30 million and making 20+ million till he's 42. Burnett hasn't worked out so the Yankees can just make a run at CJ Wilson or Cliff Lee like they did last year. You can't do that if you aren't the Yankees.

Yes, life is so unfair for por John Henry and Theo.

[OriginalUsername]

Yes' date=' life is so unfair for por John Henry and Theo.[/quote']

 

I'm not a Red Sox fan. The Red Sox and Yankees are about as wasteful with money as congress.