2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[example1]

I'm starting this early because, in the face of frustration about the current team, we have already started talking about the offseason.

 

As noted in my Optimism Thread, I'm not at all giving up on rooting for this team, but why waste good offseason discussion in a tread like the 9/21 game thread, or the "This has to be said" thread.

 

Lots of potential departures/moves for this team, but for better or worse I suspect that the core of this team will remain intact. The best players on the team next year are likely to be (in no apparent order): Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youklis, Crawford, Gonzalez, and Bard. Not a bad core, if you ask me.

 

Questions remain about the longterm role of Ortiz and Papelbon...

 

What should this team do? What do you think they will do?

 

Hopefully this thread has a long future... enjoy when you are ready.

[a700hitter]

Hopefully, the offseason doesn't start next Wednesday.

[Palodios]

I don't think the Red Sox have any choice but to resign Papelbon. This season he has a 94% save percentage. As good as that is, put this in perspective- his two blown saves were both in multi-inning appearances, so he has a 100% save percentage when coming into the 9th this year. There are very few sure-things when it comes to relief pitching, and they need some serious stability.

 

I think that it is in the best interest of this team to find a new third baseman. Youkilis is great and all, but he serves this team better playing DH for a year, or as trade bait.

 

Take Scutaro's option! He has been injured frequently, but if you look around the majors you'll notice that shortstops get injured. He's still very affordable for his production.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Papi walks and the sox move Youk to DH. With Bard falling apart, the sox have to sure up the closers spot. If they get cheap with Papelbon, they might go with Bell out of SD. We'll see, but it will surely be interesting. They also must find another starter with DiceK out and no MiLB guy stepping up.

[boston22407]

I think Papi walks and the sox move Youk to DH. With Bard falling apart' date=' the sox have to sure up the closers spot. If they get cheap with Papelbon, they might go with Bell out of SD. We'll see, but it will surely be interesting. They also must find another starter with DiceK out and no MiLB guy stepping up.[/quote']

 

If that happens maybe bring in for 3B Aramis Ramirez

 

Aramis Ramirez's agent told the Cubs on Wednesday that his client plans to become a free agent.

In other words, if the Cubs were to pick up his option for 2012, he will decline and become a free agent. Ramirez, 33, is batting .306/.360/.506 with 25 homers, 92 RBI and an .867 OPS over 619 plate appearances this season. He is unlikely to get another five-year contract, but should do well as one of the best bats on the market this winter.

[Meh]

Sox need to resign Papelbon and go out and get another relief pitcher, someone like Scott Downs from last year. Not sure who's out there this year. Someone needs to take pressure off of Bard though. I could see them putting Aceves into the starting role if that happens, if not I think they sign someone like Wilson. Who would be the perfect free agent sign.

[Palodios]

Mike Lowell's .324/.378/.501/.879 in 2007 is pretty similar to A-ram's 306/.360/.506/.866 year at similar ages. Lowell was significantly better defensively, but he also took a team friendly deal, and there are so few quality 3B right now. Getting A-ram will cost probably around that-- 3/45, but that would also free up Middlebrooks for a big offseason trade.

[Meh]

Red Sox payroll was 164 million this year. Let's say they raise it to 170 for 2012. I think thats reasonable. So far they have 126 million in the books for 2012. Picking up Marco Scutaro's $6 million option SHOULD get picked up. He's a nice player, and can cover SS and 3B. I agree with most of you let Papi walk, move Youk to DH but let him play some 3B as well. That sets you at 130.5 million.

 

Now for Arbitration... Ellsbury - $7 million(MVP year I think a 4.5 million raise isn't out of the question), Salty $2 million(solid year a million dollar bump isn't out of the question. Aceves $3 million(A big year, a nice $2 million bump should be fitting) Avilies $2 million, Bard $2 million, Lowrie $1.5 million, Morales 1.5 million. That's 149.5 if my math is right, but let's say 150. Papelbon is a must 5/75, 15 million per. $165 million. Factor in a few bench players and RP making their 500K salaries. Also Trading a few C level prospects for Ianetta or even Lars Anderson straight up.

 

Reject Wheeler's option

 

Non tender Macdonald, Miller and Alberts.

 

2012 roster

 

C: Salty

1B: Gonzo

2B: Pedo

SS: Scutty

3B: Avilies/Lowrie

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Reddick

DH: Youk

 

Bench

Larvanway

Kalish

Iannetta

Lowrie/Alivies

 

Rotation

Lester

Beckett

Bucholz

Aceves

Lackey

 

Bullpen

Papelbon

Bard

Jenks

Morales

Weiland

Tazawa

Doubront

 

Payroll should be about 168-170 million. Fitting right into your budget.

[boston22407]

Red Sox payroll was 164 million this year. Let's say they raise it to 170 for 2012. I think thats reasonable. So far they have 126 million in the books for 2012. Picking up Marco Scutaro's $6 million option SHOULD get picked up. He's a nice player, and can cover SS and 3B. I agree with most of you let Papi walk, move Youk to DH but let him play some 3B as well. That sets you at 130.5 million.

 

Now for Arbitration... Ellsbury - $7 million(MVP year I think a 4.5 million raise isn't out of the question), Salty $2 million(solid year a million dollar bump isn't out of the question. Aceves $3 million(A big year, a nice $2 million bump should be fitting) Avilies $2 million, Bard $2 million, Lowrie $1.5 million, Morales 1.5 million. That's 149.5 if my math is right, but let's say 150. Papelbon is a must 5/75, 15 million per. $165 million. Factor in a few bench players and RP making their 500K salaries. Also Trading a few C level prospects for Ianetta or even Lars Anderson straight up.

 

Reject Wheeler's option

 

Non tender Macdonald, Miller and Alberts.

 

2012 roster

 

C: Salty

1B: Gonzo

2B: Pedo

SS: Scutty

3B: Avilies/Lowrie

LF: Crawford

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Reddick

DH: Youk

 

Bench

Larvanway

Kalish

Iannetta

Lowrie/Alivies

 

Rotation

Lester

Beckett

Bucholz

Aceves

Lackey

 

Bullpen

Papelbon

Bard

Jenks

Morales

Weiland

Tazawa

Doubront

 

Payroll should be about 168-170 million. Fitting right into your budget.

 

No!

[Meh]

No!

 

Well what do you project your payroll to be?

[boston22407]

Well what do you project your payroll to be?

 

300 Mill

[Palodios]

No!

 

What's wrong with Scutaro?

[Meh]

What's wrong with Scutaro?

 

He hits a baseballl in September.

[boston22407]

I also think that Tito and/or Theo will be gone .

[SoxSport]

I can just see them cutting Miller, and have the Yankees pick him up next year and put Rothschild

to work with him.

The key to NY's success this year has been their surprising pitching. And you have to give a ton of credit to Girardi and Rothschild--both from the Marlins. Girardi is another one of those good catcher-managers who knows how to handle pitching, and probably had a hand in getting Rothschild.

[SoxSport]

Does anybody know what happened to Okajima? Last seen in Pawtucket?

 

He sure could be useful right now.

 

Did he get the Millwood treatment, too?

[Meh]

I can just see them cutting Miller, and have the Yankees pick him up next year and put Rothschild

to work with him.

The key to NY's success this year has been their surprising pitching. And you have to give a ton of credit to Girardi and Rothschild--both from the Marlins. Girardi is another one of those good catcher-managers who knows how to handle pitching, and probably had a hand in getting Rothschild.

 

I wouldn't mind it. Nothing wrong on taking a chance, but I have to figure they'll be someone out there willing to take a million dollar chance on him. I'd like to see them swamp Burnett with Zambrano.

[MNSoxChief102]

Does anybody know what happened to Okajima? Last seen in Pawtucket?

 

He sure could be useful right now.

 

Did he get the Millwood treatment, too?

 

Oki asked for a trade but couldn't find anyone that wanted him. So he told the Sox management he'd rather stay in Pawtucket where he could pitch consistently than sit in the pen at the big league level. Basically he quit. He'll be gone in the off-season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I wouldn't mind it. Nothing wrong on taking a chance' date=' but I have to figure they'll be someone out there willing to take a million dollar chance on him. [b']I'd like to see them swamp Burnett with Zambrano.

[/b]

 

Even if it's only for his stick during interleague games. Dude rakes.

[jacksonianmarch]

I can just see them cutting Miller, and have the Yankees pick him up next year and put Rothschild

to work with him.

The key to NY's success this year has been their surprising pitching. And you have to give a ton of credit to Girardi and Rothschild--both from the Marlins. Girardi is another one of those good catcher-managers who knows how to handle pitching, and probably had a hand in getting Rothschild.

 

That's a first, lol. I think it had to do with timing more than anything. Colon was pitching on Tony Pena's dominican winter league team and he recommended him to Cashman. Garcia finally made the complete transition to finesse pitcher. Both have been godsends for this team, but the biggest progression has been Nova. He looks like a 10 yr vet out there. Burnett seemed figured out until August, then the wheels fell off again. Some unsuspecting fool will take a chance on the guy this offseason, you can bet on that

[lesterkett]

Can the red sox get pujols to play 3b or lf and move youk to DH???

[Station 13]

If that happens maybe bring in for 3B Aramis Ramirez

 

Aramis Ramirez's agent told the Cubs on Wednesday that his client plans to become a free agent.

In other words, if the Cubs were to pick up his option for 2012, he will decline and become a free agent. Ramirez, 33, is batting .306/.360/.506 with 25 homers, 92 RBI and an .867 OPS over 619 plate appearances this season. He is unlikely to get another five-year contract, but should do well as one of the best bats on the market this winter.

 

Aramis Ramirez glove is atrocious. It has always been. They let Beltre go, no way they would consider Ramirez.

 

Youk need to get his butt in shape this winter to get through a season at 3B. This could be his last season in Boston and they will hopefully have Middlebrooks ready to step in. They want to get younger at 3B, not have another Lowell type contract.

[a700hitter]

Youk needs to lose 25 lbs.

[Station 13]

Red Sox payroll was 164 million this year. Let's say they raise it to 170 for 2012. I think thats reasonable. So far they have 126 million in the books for 2012. Picking up Marco Scutaro's $6 million option SHOULD get picked up. He's a nice player, and can cover SS and 3B. I agree with most of you let Papi walk, move Youk to DH but let him play some 3B as well. That sets you at 130.5 million.

 

 

Ortiz is still one of the elite middle of order bat. Youkilis won't come close to putting up Ortiz's production as DH. They'll regret letting him walk.

 

Youkilis fielding at 3B is about average. Getting in better condition can help him avoid the disable list.

[MNSoxChief102]

Ortiz is still one of the elite middle of order bat. Youkilis won't come close to putting up Ortiz's production as DH. They'll regret letting him walk.

 

Youkilis fielding at 3B is about average. Getting in better condition can help him avoid the disable list.

 

I agree. Signing Pap and Ortiz should be a priority. I think we'll get deals done for both that make sense for the team and compensate them adequately.

 

Youk is guy I want around as well, but he needs to dedicate himself in the off-season to avoid the injuries next year if at all possible.

[jacksonianmarch]

Youk was a .900OPS guy until his injury. If you get him in the lineup more often, then he'll get back there. Papi isnt under contract, will get a multiyear offer from somewhere, and is on the wrong side of 35. Youk's D is below average this yr and if he cannot stay in the field, then he isnt useful at all. I have a feeling the sox are going to let Papi walk, move Youks to DH, sign a stopgap defensive 3b and make a big move for a RFer.

[Meh]

I agree. Signing Pap and Ortiz should be a priority. I think we'll get deals done for both that make sense for the team and compensate them adequately.

 

Youk is guy I want around as well, but he needs to dedicate himself in the off-season to avoid the injuries next year if at all possible.

 

Again, to sign both of them papelbon is going to want 15 and ortiz is going to want at least 12... maybe more. How are you going to fit him into the budget?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Got to make the "pre hot stove" first. The official thread makes me sick since we're still in the hunt. Makes me think we don't have a chance.

[MNSoxChief102]

Again' date=' to sign both of them papelbon is going to want 15 and ortiz is going to want at least 12... maybe more. How are you going to fit him into the budget?[/quote']

 

We've got plenty of cash coming off the books. If the Sox want to sign both, they will.

 

Papelbon is worth every penny IMO. Ortiz wants to finish his career in Boston and will probably take a bit less as long as we give him more than one year. I'm fine with that given what he means to the franchise.

[MNSoxChief102]

Salary wise, we'll have quite a bit to work with. Drew alone is $14 million. I think we dump Dice-K somehow as well, freeing up at least a portion of his $10.5 million. Cameron is $7.75 million off the books.

 

That's a total of $26.75 million freed up, assuming we can get send Dice-K packing and only end up paying half his salary next year. Even if he stays, we're still freeing up $21 million off our payroll from this year on those guys alone. Some of that will go towards salary arb guys. The rest will be used to acquire talent at positions of need and to re-sign Pap and possibly Ortiz.

 

Thing to remember about Pap is that he already makes $12 million, so increasing it to $15 million only costs us an extra $3 million on top of what we paid out this year.