This needs to be said.

[iortiz]

Pumpsie' date=' you crazy like me and Iortiz. Lol!!![/quote']

 

well, seems like TedWilliams101 and SCM are in the club as well, so... we are not that alone my friend.

[FredLynn]

Pumpsie a physician? They did an MRI off the bat with Buchholz and all it saw was inflammation. The stress fracture was found much later. I had said before that when he continued to have pain AFTER his workouts that something structural must be at hand. Since typically muscle pain occurs with activity of the muscle. If there was inflammation around the site' date=' the MRI can be equivocal.[/quote']

 

Thats not what Buchholtz said. I remember with certaintly that CB said that his MRI in August was his FIRST MRI of the back. He could have had an XRay of it, or maybe even a CT, but the test that needs to be done is an MRI. The resolution is higher. I remember this because I was shocked when I read it.

MRIs are not cheap, but they are harmless. They missed it. They also missed Ellsbury's second rib fracture last year and send Pedroia out to play too soon last year, IMO. I don't have much confidence in their ability.

[SoxSport]

Thats not what Buchholtz said. I remember with certaintly that CB said that his MRI in August was his FIRST MRI of the back. He could have had an XRay of it, or maybe even a CT, but the test that needs to be done is an MRI. The resolution is higher. I remember this because I was shocked when I read it.

MRIs are not cheap, but they are harmless. They missed it. They also missed Ellsbury's second rib fracture last year and send Pedroia out to play too soon last year, IMO. I don't have much confidence in their ability.

 

 

 

I'm surprised they didn't do an MRI first. MRI's are given out like candy in pro sports.

Harder to get for the rest of us. Insurance companies don't like the cost.

 

Back XRays do detect osteo arthitis, by the way.

[SCM33]

I think saying the team had no heart is pushing it.

This wouldnt have happened if they did. They dropped a 9 game lead with 30 days left in the season.

 

 

Pumpsie' date=' you crazy like me and Iortiz. Lol!!![/quote']

What about me?!

[a700hitter]

What about me?!

You crazy too!!!

[TedWilliams101]

well' date=' seems like TedWilliams101 and SCM are in the club as well, so... we are not that alone my friend. [/quote']

 

What did I do now?

[iortiz]

What did I do now?

 

You are crazy too since you want another GM just like us

[SCM33]

I think saying the team had no heart is pushing it.

 

 

HEART:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XosazqcAbG8&feature=related

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Honestly, that no heart s*** is absurd.

 

They didn't just say "hey f*** it lets drop down and give the Rays the wildcard". You'be heard the players all month with the mindset of winning. They had a lot of intensity in the interviews but came up short when they came up to the plate. They were all frustrated. The looks on the players face when Papelbon gave up the GW hit was sickening. That's not showing no heart that's underperforming. It's kind of hard to win ganes when yoyr pitchers s*** the bed game after game. Comparing this to 2004 makes no sense. The fact that it was playoffs makes it that much irrelevant.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Honestly, that no heart s*** is absurd.

 

They didn't just say "hey f*** it lets drop down and give the Rays the wildcard". You'be heard the players all month with the mindset of winning. They had a lot of intensity in the interviews but came up short when they came up to the plate. They were all frustrated. The looks on the players face when Papelbon gave up the GW hit was sickening. That's not showing no heart that's underperforming. It's kind of hard to win ganes when yoyr pitchers s*** the bed game after game. Comparing this to 2004 makes no sense. The fact that it was playoffs makes it that much irrelevant.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't know where to post this so I'll just post it here.

 

I'm watching a documentary on Steve Bartman's fan interference in the 2003 NLCS game 6. Towards the end of the documentary they showed Bill Buckner and his passed ball. Those who were watching the Sox what was it like? Obviously it sucked but how did Boston fans react etc.

[Emmz]

the Catching Hell documentary was pretty interesting. Buckner f***ed up, but there was a series of f***-ups leading up to that, which allowed it to happen.

 

The Red Sox should have closed that thing out before it even had the chance of happening like that.

[Palodios]

the Catching Hell documentary was pretty interesting. Buckner f***ed up, but there was a series of f***-ups leading up to that, which allowed it to happen.

 

The Red Sox should have closed that thing out before it even had the chance of happening like that.

 

Emmz, lucky 7777 posts!

[Emmz]

I'm retiring when I hit 9001.

[3rdManOut]

I saw that doc. Catching Hell as well. I thought it was really well done. I didnt realize just how much the Cubs and Sox had in common with all the f**k ups. In terms of Bill Buckner's mess up, I agree, there were many other f**k ups way before that in the game. The players were upset but they didnt jump off a bridge. Even in the doc. they said that Buc was ok after a while. It was the media that he was bitter with because they are the ones that focused on just what HE did and not other plays.

[3rdManOut]

Also that was only game 6 but to the media that didnt matter. That was the difining moment of the whole series. I feel bad for Buc and what the media and "we" the fans put him through. He was a good player and he made a mistake. I not saying that our team this Sept. didnt want to win Im sure more then anybody they wanted it. It just looked like they didnt after loosing game after game.

[a700hitter]

Also that was only game 6 but to the media that didnt matter. That was the difining moment of the whole series. I feel bad for Buc and what the media and "we" the fans put him through. He was a good player and he made a mistake. I not saying that our team this Sept. didnt want to win Im sure more then anybody they wanted it. It just looked like they didnt after loosing game after game.

Sometimes you just need to man up and take responsibility, like Papelbon did late in the season. He didn't look to deflect any blame . In 1978, Yaz made no excuses. He said the Gossage beat him. He didn't bring up that he hit a HR off Guidry and an RBI single against Gossage- two of the toughest pitchers in the game.

 

Buckner never manned up like that. He always said that it wasn't "the key play of the World Series". Well, how can that be? I've seen the play 10,000 times. He also said that it was a minor miscalculation. What? Even if there had been other bad plays leading up to that play, Buckner was still the goat of that series. There were several opportunities for the Sox to put away that Series, and many of them had to do with Buckner. I think he still holds the record for LOB in a World Series. Until game 7, I think Buckner had 3, maybe 4, base hits. I think he had a hit or 2 in game 7. Overall, my recollection is that he hit something like .188 (.143 after 6 games). The Mets were loading the bases to pitch to him. If there were less than 2 outs, he would hit into a DP. If he had just gotten 1 or 2 hits in those situations, the Series would have been blown wide open. He didn't and he never acknowledged that he had had a truly horrendous series. He was justifiably the goat, and fans like me didn't like that he never acknowledged the part that he played. He should not have been harassed in his personal life, but he was the goat of the Series without question.

[SoxSport]

The word that best describes the Red Sox the last few years is the word that best describes their manager:

 

CASUAL

[3rdManOut]

Sometimes you just need to man up and take responsibility, like Papelbon did late in the season. He didn't look to deflect any blame . In 1978, Yaz made no excuses. He said the Gossage beat him. He didn't bring up that he hit a HR off Guidry and an RBI single against Gossage- two of the toughest pitchers in the game.

 

Buckner never manned up like that. He always said that it wasn't "the key play of the World Series". Well, how can that be? I've seen the play 10,000 times. He also said that it was a minor miscalculation. What? Even if there had been other bad plays leading up to that play, Buckner was still the goat of that series. There were several opportunities for the Sox to put away that Series, and many of them had to do with Buckner. I think he still holds the record for LOB in a World Series. Until game 7, I think Buckner had 1, maybe 2, base hits. I think he had a hit or 2 in game 7. Overall, my recollection is that he hit something like .143. The Mets were loading the bases to pitch to him. If there were less than 2 outs, he would hit into a DP. If he had just gotten 1 or 2 hits the Series would have been blown wide open. He didn't and he never acknowledged that he had had a truly horrendous series. He was justifiably the goat, and fans like me didn't like that he never acknowledged the part that he played. He should not have been harassed in his personal life, but he was the goat of the Series without question.

 

 

Yes I think your right on that. I think what I meant to say was how he was treated in his personal life. I didnt realize that he didnt really man up to that mistake at first base. I guess thats why his teamates said he was "fine" a little while after the game.

[3rdManOut]

The word that best describes the Red Sox the last few years is the word that best describes their manager:

 

CASUAL

 

I understand that as well. But in 2004 (yes I know even when it was a playoff series) it seemed like the "idiots" took a casual attitude as well when they were down 0-3 to the Yanks. Hell even, Manny was saying there is always next year.

 

But then again that was a different group of guys so I guess you really cant compare. Pluse it was a different situation as well. :dunno:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You got to feel bad for the guy though. I bet people wanted to kill him for that play. It took the man 20+ years to return to Fenway. I think it was 2008 he returned. He must of got a lot of s***. I felt bad for Bartman as well. He really got it bad.

[VA Sox Fan]

You got to feel bad for the guy though. I bet people wanted to kill him for that play. It took the man 20+ years to return to Fenway. I think it was 2008 he returned. He must of got a lot of s***. I felt bad for Bartman as well. He really got it bad.

 

The media decided to make Buckner and Bartman the goat. As in every aspect of this world, the media has entirely too much power. You had 2 extremely passionate fan bases always looking for an excuse and the media fed on that.

 

The Bartman documentary was good and if you didn't see the Buckner episode of Curb Your Enthusiam you should check it out, it was hilarious.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Will do VA, thanks!

[Emmz]

Sometimes you just need to man up and take responsibility, like Papelbon did late in the season. He didn't look to deflect any blame . In 1978, Yaz made no excuses. He said the Gossage beat him. He didn't bring up that he hit a HR off Guidry and an RBI single against Gossage- two of the toughest pitchers in the game.

 

Buckner never manned up like that. He always said that it wasn't "the key play of the World Series". Well, how can that be? I've seen the play 10,000 times. He also said that it was a minor miscalculation. What? Even if there had been other bad plays leading up to that play, Buckner was still the goat of that series. There were several opportunities for the Sox to put away that Series, and many of them had to do with Buckner. I think he still holds the record for LOB in a World Series. Until game 7, I think Buckner had 3, maybe 4, base hits. I think he had a hit or 2 in game 7. Overall, my recollection is that he hit something like .188 (.143 after 6 games). The Mets were loading the bases to pitch to him. If there were less than 2 outs, he would hit into a DP. If he had just gotten 1 or 2 hits in those situations, the Series would have been blown wide open. He didn't and he never acknowledged that he had had a truly horrendous series. He was justifiably the goat, and fans like me didn't like that he never acknowledged the part that he played. He should not have been harassed in his personal life, but he was the goat of the Series without question.

 

Not manning up should not justify being a scapegoat for something that could have been prevented. The guy who gave up the lead and threw the wild pitch is never blamed. Why is that? Just like the Cubs could have prevented the Marlins' rally by, well, pitching better for one.

[VA Sox Fan]

Not manning up should not justify being a scapegoat for something that could have been prevented. The guy who gave up the lead and threw the wild pitch is never blamed. Why is that? Just like the Cubs could have prevented the Marlins' rally by' date=' well, pitching better for one.[/quote']

 

Poor pitching lost both those games. But the media found their goats and went with them.

[a700hitter]

Not manning up should not justify being a scapegoat for something that could have been prevented. The guy who gave up the lead and threw the wild pitch is never blamed. Why is that? Just like the Cubs could have prevented the Marlins' rally by' date=' well, pitching better for one.[/quote']Buckner played like ass for the entire World Series, not just that one play. Did you check the LOB stats? It was record setting. Stanley pitched very well in that Series. Gedman had a bad Series, but nothing like Buckner. Buckner was the #3 hitter, and he absolutely killed the lineup. Everyone around him was getting on base, but he came up empty time after time. People remember the play, because that was the turning point. I remember an epically bad Series and his deflection of blame. He really did act like a dick. No one had the right to disturb him in his personal life, but he did contribute to the bad feelings against him. He was no angel. The guy was a bit of a dick. In his last season, the Sox brought him back to start the season. he got a nice ovation from the fans. He was completely shot at that point, so the FO DFA'd him. When they cut him, he went off saying the they would regret letting him go-- a dick as usual. No one picked him up if I remember correctly, so there were no regrets.

[Emmz]

No one remembers the LOB s***, they remember the booted groundball. They don't show his LOB, they show the booted groundball. They focus on the one moment, and call him the goat. He f***ed up, but so did the pitcher, and I don't even remember his name, because no one even talks about it. He f***ed up when he could have closed out the series. He had them down to their last out, their last strike even if my memory serves me correctly. Why isn't he a goat? We focus on Buckner's one play, why don't we focus on whoever-the-hell-that-guy's-name-is' wild pitch?

[a700hitter]

No one remembers the LOB s***' date=' they remember the booted groundball. They don't show his LOB, they show the booted groundball. They focus on the one moment, and call him the goat. He f***ed up, but so did the pitcher, and I don't even remember his name, because no one even talks about it. He f***ed up when he could have closed out the series. He had them down to their last out, their last strike even if my memory serves me correctly. Why isn't he a goat? We focus on Buckner's one play, why don't we focus on whoever-the-hell-that-guy's-name-is' wild pitch?[/quote']As I said, the ground ball was the focal point-- the turning point. Those of us who lived through that debacle were pissed at him for other reasons other than the ground ball. To have acted so matter of fact about it and call it a minor miscalculation and not the key play of the Series was something that the fans didn't want to hear.

[VA Sox Fan]

Buckner played like ass for the entire World Series' date=' not just that one play. Did you check the LOB stats? It was record setting. Stanley pitched very well in that Series. Gedman had a bad Series, but nothing like Buckner. Buckner was the #3 hitter, and he absolutely killed the lineup. Everyone around him was getting on base, but he came up empty time after time. People remember the play, because that was the turning point. I remember an epically bad Series and his deflection of blame. He really did act like a dick. No one had the right to disturb him in his personal life, but he did contribute to the bad feelings against him. He was no angel. The guy was a bit of a dick. In his last season, the Sox brought him back to start the season. he got a nice ovation from the fans. He was completely shot at that point, so the FO DFA'd him. When they cut him, he went off saying the they would regret letting him go-- a dick as usual. No one picked him up if I remember correctly, so there were no regrets.[/quote']

 

Wasn't he playing with an injury the entire series? Like the guy or think he's a dick but he didn't deserve to be the goat for that game. The media ran with it.

[VA Sox Fan]

As I said' date=' the ground ball was the focal point-- the turning point. Those of us who lived through that debacle were pissed at him for other reasons other than the ground ball. To have acted so matter of fact about it and call it a minor miscalculation and not the key play of the Series was something that the fans didn't want to hear.[/quote']

 

That was our fault as fans. And the media fueled and fed on that. Poor pitching and management lost us game 6 and the 86 WS. Not Bill Buckner.