Regarding Wakefield

[Reck]

Ok so now that he got his damn 200th win as a pitcher. Does he makes a conscious decision to retired or will BoSox make force him out?

 

His tank is most obviously empty.

 

What will Wake do?

 

Also, congrats. It only took you 51 paintaking days and 274 runs later.

[a700hitter]

Ok so now that he got his damn 200th win as a pitcher. Does he makes a conscious decision to retired or will BoSox make force him out?

 

His tank is most obviously empty.

 

What will Wake do?

 

Also, congrats. It only took you 51 paintaking days and 274 runs later.

He's an empty shell.

[Boggs Chicken Dinner]

This has gotta be it for him. He's 45 years old and on the decline. If he does leave, he has nothing to be ashamed of, but I really hope both him and the team come to their senses and move on.

[Spudboy]

I think this is a non-issue. Yes, the decision to keep him around likely has been sprinkled with sentimentality and marketing, but there have been times when he has proven very valuable, even in the past two seasons. He's done at the end of the year.

[YAZMAN]

I think this is a non-issue. Yes' date=' the decision to keep him around likely has been sprinkled with sentimentality and marketing, but there have been times when he has proven very valuable, even in the past two seasons. He's done at the end of the year.[/quote']

 

None of the kids remember Niekro pitching until he was 48, or his 120+ victories after his 40th birthday.

[Palodios]

I sort of would like to see Wakefield end his career in Pittsburgh at age 54 with 300 victories.

[Dojji]

None of the kids remember Niekro pitching until he was 48' date=' or his 120+ victories after his 40th birthday.[/quote']

 

Wakefield isn't Niekro

[SoxFanForsyth]

Niekro posted a 3.84 ERA from 40-48.

 

Wakefield has posted 3 sub-3.85 ERA seasons in his career. Going forward, Wakefield would be ok for a spot starter that gives you 45-50 IP per season, but that would require a roster spot that would be wasted, as well as spot starts that would probably be better served to a prospect to get his feet wet.

 

I'm sure he'll retired at 200. As far as the Red Sox win record, that's a record for a guy like Lester who is a dominant pitcher IMHO.

[Spudboy]

None of the kids remember Niekro pitching until he was 48' date=' or his 120+ victories after his 40th birthday.[/quote']

 

I remember him but am not familiar with his stats. I remember Hoyt Wilhelm too. He threw a knuckler, didn't he?

[Spudboy]

I sort of would like to see Wakefield end his career in Pittsburgh at age 54 with 300 victories.

 

Hahahahaha!!! Great idea! That would be symmetry.

[YAZMAN]

I remember him but am not familiar with his stats. I remember Hoyt Wilhelm too. He threw a knuckler' date=' didn't he?[/quote']

 

Yeah, he was more of a reliever though. He threw until he was almost 50. Joe Niekro, Phil's younger brother, was 44 or 45 when he retired but wasn't exclusively a knuckleballer. He threw 3 or 4 pitches.

[lasitter]

The embarrassing truth is that given the current state of the starting rotation and the relief, we still need him.

 

I'm not sure you could argue that Weiland, Miller, sLackey, Albers, Dubront are doing better, and none of them are approaching senior citizenship. Dice-K, and Jenks are sidelined $$$ down a rathole. Beckett has been day-to-day four times, and Bucholtz has missed a huge chunk of the season. Lester and Lackey have both had stints on the DL.

 

He tires too easily, but Wake may be one of the healthiest pitchers on staff.

 

With a spot of luck, a smarter manager and some better fielding (passed balls), he might have had a much better record this year.

 

I couldn't find a page listing the stats for a pitcher inning-by-inning, so I had to create this the hard way. I know someone here could do it better (probably already a web site for this stat), but it attempts to show earned runs allowed by Wake per each inning per appearance this season.

 

-------0- @ Texas

----01--- @ Texas

------01- @ Cleveland

------00- @ NYY

---202--- v Tampa Bay (Scutaro E 5th, Salty PB 6th ??)

--------1 v Toronto

------0-- @ Baltimore

000001--- v Seattle (Jenks BS)

--------0> v Angels

13002---- v Minnesota Balk, Lowrie 2x error

------00- @ Toronto

0000000-- v Cubs

0000000-- @ Detroit

000121--- v ChiSox

000131--- @ NYY

0000100-- @ Tampa Bay (No run support) (1WP, 2PB, just 1 ER)

02000010- v Milwaukee

000400--- @ Pittsburgh

120011--- @ Houston

1020000-- v Toronto

20003---- @ Baltimore (2x unearned)

2000104-- v Seattle (slam in 7th)

00000120- @ ChiSox (2x runs in 7th)

0002001-- v Cleveland (Pap wins 4-3)

0101100-- @ Minnesota (Aceves BS, win)

00201100- @ Seattle (errors, run support)

001003--- @ Kansas City (Albers BS)

0202----- v Oakland

-----0000 v Texas

12100---- @ Toronto (Albers BS, loss)

032000--- v Toronto

 

I think that somewhere in this there's probably an indication that if Wake gets left out there too long he gets beat up.

 

He's cheap, sturdy, available, and does whatever you ask without an attitude. I don't know how you DON'T resign him given our present options.

[iortiz]

At the beginning of the season his command was there and the butterfly moved a lot and fine. These days the ball is staying up in the zone and his command is horrid to such extent that Salty can't catch his balls anymore and BTW moving the basemen.

 

He had a tremendous career, but it is time to go.

[SoxSport]

The MVP on the Sox this year so far is Salty.

 

One of the few guys who has improved his game and busted his ass to do it.

 

He and Pedey are shining lights when it comes to effort on this team.

 

He even caught Wake without bitching about it.

[example1]

The MVP on the Sox this year so far is Salty.

 

One of the few guys who has improved his game and busted his ass to do it.

He and Pedey are shining lights when it comes to effort on this team.

 

He even caught Wake without bitching about it.

 

Jacoby sprints away, crying, feelings hurt.

[lasitter]

Guys: Give him the four blown saves and he's 11-6.

 

sLackey has a higher ERA and we're sinking $16 million a year into him. Except for starting the year in the bullpen, he'd have as many innings as almost any starter. If he doesn't throw another pitch this year, who do you think is going to pick up those 145 innings for $1 million and do it better?

 

Are we really expecting Dice-K to come back and blow us away next year?

 

If Beckett holds true to form and fails to put a second good year together with this season next year, what are your plans?

 

I heard all this same stuff about Wake at the beginning of this season. Few offered any hope that we'd get so much as one quality start out of him in the rotation for the season.

 

I don't care if he only has wind for one half of a season. I'd bet you anything that he's got another useful half-season of service in him, and it costs us nothing to find out.

 

Add to this the fact that Theo doesn't have enough money coming off the books to pull multiple rabbits out of the hat at Hot Stove this year, and I think we have to come up with some ways to get value wherever we find it in the organization.

 

Wake is just such a resource.

[a700hitter]

I heard all this same stuff about Wake at the beginning of this season. Few offered any hope that we'd get so much as one quality start out of him in the rotation for the season.

 

I don't care if he only has wind for one half of a season. I'd bet you anything that he's got another useful half-season of service in him, and it costs us nothing to find out.

 

Add to this the fact that Theo doesn't have enough money coming off the books to pull multiple rabbits out of the hat at Hot Stove this year, and I think we have to come up with some ways to get value wherever we find it in the organization.

 

Wake is just such a resource.

He really wasn't useful this season. His ERA is around mid-5. That is not a good resource even if it is free.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

His ERA doesn't measure his worth to this team all that much. Fact is he gave this team a decent enough chance to win every time out this season. That is pretty important when every starter has had an injury this year. What would of been a better option?

[Spudboy]

Yeah' date=' he was more of a reliever though. He threw until he was almost 50. Joe Niekro, Phil's younger brother, was 44 or 45 when he retired but wasn't exclusively a knuckleballer. He threw 3 or 4 pitches.[/quote']

 

Cool. Thanks for the edification. My brain is not what it used to be! I remember these guys. And I loved watching Gaylord (what a unfortunate name for a child!) Perry. That guy could throw some spitters!!

[a700hitter]

His ERA doesn't measure his worth to this team all that much. Fact is he gave this team a decent enough chance to win every time out this season. That is pretty important when every starter has had an injury this year. What would of been a better option?

His performance was terrible this season. He couldn't keep his team in the game most of the despite the fact that it is a top offensive team. He rarely went deep to help the bullpen. Who would have been better? Lots and lots of pitchers with ERA's under 5.

[Spudboy]

The embarrassing truth is that given the current state of the starting rotation and the relief, we still need him.

 

I'm not sure you could argue that Weiland, Miller, sLackey, Albers, Dubront are doing better, and none of them are approaching senior citizenship. Dice-K, and Jenks are sidelined $$$ down a rathole. Beckett has been day-to-day four times, and Bucholtz has missed a huge chunk of the season. Lester and Lackey have both had stints on the DL.

 

He tires too easily, but Wake may be one of the healthiest pitchers on staff.

 

With a spot of luck, a smarter manager and some better fielding (passed balls), he might have had a much better record this year.

 

I couldn't find a page listing the stats for a pitcher inning-by-inning, so I had to create this the hard way. I know someone here could do it better (probably already a web site for this stat), but it attempts to show earned runs allowed by Wake per each inning per appearance this season.

 

-------0- @ Texas

----01--- @ Texas

------01- @ Cleveland

------00- @ NYY

---202--- v Tampa Bay (Scutaro E 5th, Salty PB 6th ??)

--------1 v Toronto

------0-- @ Baltimore

000001--- v Seattle (Jenks BS)

--------0> v Angels

13002---- v Minnesota Balk, Lowrie 2x error

------00- @ Toronto

0000000-- v Cubs

0000000-- @ Detroit

000121--- v ChiSox

000131--- @ NYY

0000100-- @ Tampa Bay (No run support) (1WP, 2PB, just 1 ER)

02000010- v Milwaukee

000400--- @ Pittsburgh

120011--- @ Houston

1020000-- v Toronto

20003---- @ Baltimore (2x unearned)

2000104-- v Seattle (slam in 7th)

00000120- @ ChiSox (2x runs in 7th)

0002001-- v Cleveland (Pap wins 4-3)

0101100-- @ Minnesota (Aceves BS, win)

00201100- @ Seattle (errors, run support)

001003--- @ Kansas City (Albers BS)

0202----- v Oakland

-----0000 v Texas

12100---- @ Toronto (Albers BS, loss)

032000--- v Toronto

 

I think that somewhere in this there's probably an indication that if Wake gets left out there too long he gets beat up.

 

He's cheap, sturdy, available, and does whatever you ask without an attitude. I don't know how you DON'T resign him given our present options.

 

I don't know about re-signing him (and I am a fan of his) but he clearly has value now. People are just pissed because the Sox are not winning. Wake is still productive, if not as effective as he once was.

 

Oh, good post. Thanks.

[SoxSport]

Wake is mediocrity and has been filling a roster spot for years that should have gone to a younger prospect. He also kept the Sox from developing a young catcher to replace Varitek--with his need for a caddy. He was never that good a pitcher to warrant that much attention, but his longevity made him an insider in the organization--tough to displace. He'll still be tough to say no to next year if he wants to pitch.

 

On the plus side, at least they never had to pay him Lackey money.

[a700hitter]

Wake is mediocrity and has been filling a roster spot for years that should have gone to a younger prospect. He also kept the Sox from developing a young catcher to replace Varitek--with his need for a caddy. He was never that good a pitcher to warrant that much attention, but his longevity made him an insider in the organization--tough to displace. He'll still be tough to say no to next year if he wants to pitch.

The Sox will need to screen their calls and just not answer when Wake calls.

[lasitter]

Who would have been better? Lots and lots of pitchers with ERA's under 5.

Which pitchers THAT WE HAVE?

 

I'm happy we got Bedard, but that trade was so late it was announced after deadline.

 

WHO ELSE did we leave on the table for a couple million dollars?

 

It doesn't help to say that we should have been luckier in the draft or that other teams have better pitchers. We're playing the hand we were dealt in terms of injuries and I think we tried everybody in the minors that had a snowball's chance in hell of helping us.

 

I wish he was 15 years younger, but other than that I know he's helped the team and I don't know who you would have started in his place this season.

[a700hitter]

Which pitchers THAT WE HAVE?

 

I'm happy we got Bedard, but that trade was so late it was announced after deadline.

 

WHO ELSE did we leave on the table for a couple million dollars?

 

It doesn't help to say that we should have been luckier in the draft or that other teams have better pitchers. We're playing the hand we were dealt in terms of injuries and I think we tried everybody in the minors that had a snowball's chance in hell of helping us.

 

I wish he was 15 years younger, but other than that I know he's helped the team and I don't know who you would have started in his place this season.

Wakefield never should have been resigned this season. He had nothing left last year. At age 44, he was not going to make a comeback. His tank was clearly empty in 2010. They should have gone in a different direction.

[lasitter]

Wakefield never should have been resigned this season. He had nothing left last year. At age 44' date=' he was not going to make a comeback. His tank was clearly empty in 2010. They should have gone in a different direction.[/quote']Names please. Who did they not chase that was available for similar money?

 

Unless you have something specific to suggest or link to, it sounds like you're just flapping your gums.

[a700hitter]

Names please. Who did they not chase that was available for similar money?

 

Unless you have something specific to suggest or link to, it sounds like you're just flapping your gums.

Wow, Dutchy do you ever give up?

[a700hitter]

Names please. Who did they not chase that was available for similar money?

 

Unless you have something specific to suggest or link to, it sounds like you're just flapping your gums.

You want names? Look at every pitcher that was acquired since the end of 2010 and start with that. Is it a requirement that they make they same salary as Wakefield? Please document your answer with links establishing your position. Otherwise you are just flapping your gums, Dutchy.

[lasitter]

Please document your answer with links establishing your position. Otherwise you are just flapping your gums' date=' Dutchy.[/quote']I don't have to make your argument for you. I'm asking you who else we should have picked up and instead of a list you've given me nothing.

 

I think that's because you have nothing to offer.

[a700hitter]

I don't have to make your argument for you. I'm asking you who else we should have picked up and instead of a list you've given me nothing.

 

I think that's because you have nothing to offer.

Yes, you are right. The only option for the Red Sox after 2010 was a broken down 44 year old Wakefield who couldn't even field his position in 2010 and who had been embarrassing himself. It was fairly predictable that he would have another really bad year. He's 44 for goodness sakes. But there surely were no other options for the Sox. That assertion alone is ridiculous. You do realize that the Yankees signed Colon and Garcia in the off season. Both clearly had more in the tank than Wakefield, and they are both cheap. Those are just two names. Now go hide under one of your other identities, Dutchy. What I am giving you is the gift of my ignore list that is populated entirely by your many personalities.