2011 Playoffs for granted?

[Taz]

Considering it wasn't all that long ago that the play-off spots all appeared but a forgone conclusion in both leagues, at least the Red Sox are going to have plenty to play for over the remaining few weeks.

[d-money]

A collapse and i can see headas rolling.You cant blow a playoff spot and blame injuries.Yes the backend of the rotation sucks but its not helping when Lester is throwing up pathetic starts!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Josh Beckett had a good side session today in the bullpen,and the Red Sox are hopeful of lining him up in the Tampa Bay series this weekend.

 

Per Buster Olney

[iortiz]

I'm not saying that I'm not concerned, but I also watched the Yankees the past few games, and they are not playing any better than the Red Sox right now. Outside of a Bourjos error, the Yankees could well have been swept in Anaheim.

 

What I'm saying is that either the division won't be decided by the time the Yankees and Rays play, which means the Yankees will still be playing their best to win the division, and it won't just be a cakewalk. Or the Sox will have padded their lead over the Rays, making the final series borderline meaningless.

 

Plain and simple, the Red Sox are 3.5 up on the Rays, and 3.5 down on the Yankees. And the Rays and Yankees play each other 7 more times this season. There are two probable scenarios that could play out here.

 

1. The Rays make a push. They will beat the Yankees in at least 3/4 games at NYY. The Sox (who are facing the Orioles at the time) will likely gain ground on the Yankees. Barring a NYY sweep of BOS, this makes the division undecided heading into the final series of the year, and thus the Yankees will throw their guns at the Rays and not just roll over.

 

2. The Yankees run away with the division. They beat the Rays in 3/4, and the Red Sox pad a bit of a lead on them (again, playing the Orioles, likely will win 3/4), which means it doesn't matter Gw the Yankees face the Rays, because the Sox will probably be clinched by that series.

 

Again, who is gonna PITCH against the O's?. They are by far a better offense than the Rays, and we just have ate 22 f***ing Rs in 3 games against a bunch of kids my friend. We better recover Bedard and Beckett and hope that our offense pound the other teams early in the next remaining series in order to give room to our crappy pitching staff to s*** the bed if they're pleasing to do it again, so... We'll see.

[iortiz]

Josh Beckett had a good side session today in the bullpen,and the Red Sox are hopeful of lining him up in the Tampa Bay series this weekend.

 

Per Buster Olney

 

:thumbsup:

[SoxFanForsyth]

Again' date=' who is gonna [b']PITCH[/b] against the O's?. They are by far a better offense than the Rays, and we just have ate 22 f***ing Rs in 3 games against a bunch of kids my friend. We better recover Bedard and Beckett and hope that our offense pound the other teams early in the next remaining series in order to give room to our crappy pitching staff to s*** the bed again if they please to, so... We'll see.

 

All indications are that Beckett and Bedard will both be throwing by the BAL series, Beckett probably before.

[iortiz]

All indications are that Beckett and Bedard will both be throwing by the BAL series' date=' Beckett probably before.[/quote']

 

I see... if this is confirm the panorama will be definitely encouraging...

 

Now let's hope that they come back in plenty of their abilities.

[iortiz]

And here we go... TB 3- BAL 0 about to start the 4th.

[iortiz]

This illustrates everything.

 

By Theo Epstien

 

“When you have a run of bad starting pitching it does tax the bullpen. There’s a little bit of an effect on the offense as well. These guys go to bat early in the game feeling like they’re down 5-0. Sometimes they are, sometimes it just feels that way. Especially with our kind of approach where you need to be patient, you need to have good at bats and have the other guy drive you in, kind of a group offense mentality, it’s hard to have that kind of at bats when you feel like you have to put a crooked number on the board all the time.

[SoxSport]

The trouble with all these predictions is the Yankees have been overachieving in pitching all year, and there is no reason to think they will stop now. My guess is it will catch up to them in the playoffs. The cream will come to the top.

 

The Red Sox only chance is if they have their top 3 starters, including Buchholz, ready to go. Bedard is a longshot as the only capable replacement for Buchholz. Maybe Aceves, too.

 

One of the major Red Sox mistakes in the stretch has been the failure to use Aceves as the #3 starter, when he was clearly better than anybody else.

[SoxSport]

This illustrates everything.

 

By Theo Epstien

 

Yeah. It illustrates that Epstein can doublespeak. He didn't do a hell of a lot about improving the pitching--actually made it worse. That didn't help the hitters.

 

Epstein has done good things, and he's done bad things. Too bad he doesn't get enough credit for all the bad things he's done.

[iortiz]

Yeah. It illustrates that Epstein can doublespeak. He didn't do a hell of a lot about improving the pitching--actually made it worse. That didn't help the hitters.

 

True. He didn't bring someone healthy and solid.

[Palodios]

Theo signed a player who was low-risk, high-reward. If Bedard is healthy, he's a legit #2 type pitcher, and Theo gave up practically nothing to get him. I don't see the sense in blaming the GM for injuries, and doing the best he can with what he has.

[a700hitter]

Theo signed a player who was low-risk' date=' high-reward. If Bedard is healthy, he's a legit #2 type pitcher, and Theo gave up practically nothing to get him. I don't see the sense in blaming the GM for injuries, and doing the best he can with what he has.[/quote']I've said this many times before. There is no such thing as a low risk high reward player. It's just a positive spin on taking long shot or a flier.

[iortiz]

Theo signed a player who was low-risk' date=' high-reward. [b']If Bedard is healthy[/b], he's a legit #2 type pitcher, and Theo gave up practically nothing to get him. I don't see the sense in blaming the GM for injuries, and doing the best he can with what he has.

 

That's the problem, That is the damn problem, he is not fully healthy, he brought a damn unhealthy pitcher that haven't given us more than 6IP and taxing BTW the pen, and right now, he is still among cottons; is that what we needed?, definitely no. He didn't make his job, he should've brought someone fully healthy and solid, and that my friend is his Damn job and responsibility, This is for what he is paid among other, plain and simple.

[Palodios]

I've said this many times before. There is no such thing as a low risk high reward player. It's just a positive spin on taking long shot or a flier.

 

Bedard had pitched 16 games before coming to the Sox, all with an ERA of 3.45. It wasn't like he was out all season. Based on the medical report, they must have known what they were getting.

[Palodios]

That's the problem' date=' That is the damn problem, [b']he is not fully healthy[/b], he brought a damn unhealthy pitcher that haven't given us more than 6IP and taxing BTW the pen, and right now, he is still among cottons; is that what we needed?, definitely no. He didn't make his job, he should've brought someone fully healthy and solid, and that my friend is his Damn job and responsibility, This is for what he is paid among other, plain and simple.

 

But what were the alternatives? Any good pitcher would have cost either Ranaudo/Doubront or Weiland, maybe more. It wasn't like there was a pile of aces lying around available for chump change. No matter what Theo did, he could not match up with Philadelphia's pitching staff. Bedard atleast gave them a chance.

[iortiz]

Bedard had pitched 16 games before coming to the Sox' date=' all with an ERA of 3.45. It wasn't like he was out all season. Based on the medical report, [b']they must have known what they were getting.

[/b]

 

Yup, he must have known that he wasn't the answer, and that is GM's responsibility.

[a700hitter]

FO is spinning all sorts of excuses for themselves. It's bull, and I for one don't want to hear or read it. The Yanks have had an implosion by their #2 pitcher for the entire season. Their #3 Hughes has been basically useless all season long. They have had lots of injuries to their bullpen and ARod has missed a significant portion of the season.

 

The Rays lost their All Star LFer, their #2 pitcher and their entire bullpen to free agency, but yet they built a team that is charging hard.

 

I don't want to hear Front Office spin excuses by Red Sox brass. Stop the whining.

[iortiz]

But what were the alternatives? Any good pitcher would have cost either Ranaudo/Doubront or Weiland' date=' maybe more. It wasn't like there was a pile of aces lying around available for chump change. [b']No matter what Theo did, he could not match up with Philadelphia's pitching staff.[/b] Bedard atleast gave them a chance.

 

Here we go.... The damn farm again! Are you really concern to give up Weiland, Doubront? Really?

 

Jimenez was available among other. Nobody is talking about matching the philli rotation, just give us the opportunity to make at least the playoffs, thing that is not granted anymore.

 

And please do not excuse Theo, that is his damn job, bring the pieces.

[a700hitter]

Here we go.... The damn farm again! Are you really concern to give up Weiland, Doubront? Really?

 

Jimenez was available among other. Nobody is talking about matching the philli rotation, just give us the opportunity to make at least the playoffs, thing that is not granted anymore.

 

And please do not excuse Theo, that is his damn job, bring the pieces.

Exactly. What about Dempster? He would have cost the farm. I've said it before. Every single year we hear that they didn't want to sacrifice the future, so they sacrifice the present. Next season will be the same BS. Who are these great prospects that will be coming to Fenway next year or in 2013?

[yankees228]

FO is spinning all sorts of excuses for themselves. It's bull, and I for one don't want to hear or read it. The Yanks have had an implosion by their #2 pitcher for the entire season. Their #3 Hughes has been basically useless all season long. They have had lots of injuries to their bullpen and ARod has missed a significant portion of the season.

 

The Rays lost their All Star LFer, their #2 pitcher and their entire bullpen to free agency, but yet they built a team that is charging hard.

 

I don't want to hear Front Office spin excuses by Red Sox brass. Stop the whining.

 

Yeah, except that the main reason why the Yankees were able to overcome those pitching problems is because of the 'low risk, high reward' signings, or whatever you want to call them.

[iortiz]

Exactly. What about Dempster? He would have cost the farm. I've said it before. Every single year we hear that they didn't want to sacrifice the future' date=' so they sacrifice the present. Next season will be the same BS. Who are these great prospects that will be coming to Fenway next year or in 2013?[/quote']

 

Yup. How much time we protected this promising kid who went to KC? and for what? For a utility player? LOL. Great move Theo.

[TylerD]

I must admitt I didnt see this coming at all, and I dont want to bother making excuses as to why..... I remember just 3 weeks ago saying how funny it would be if Tampa got the wild card and knocked out the Yankees.... I had no idea that we would be sitting here today only 3 games in front of Tampa.... I still think this team has what it takes to pick themselves up and make the playoffs. We play Toronto tomorrow, if we lose that game then ill hit the panic button a little bit more...... (As if im not panicing enough as it is)

[SoxFanForsyth]

I've said this many times before. There is no such thing as a low risk high reward player. It's just a positive spin on taking long shot or a flier.

 

Two words. David Ortiz. That completely debunks this argument. He was a Rule 5 draft pick. Low risk, high reward.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Also Josh Hamilton. Another Rule 5 draft pick. Low risk, high reward.

[Palodios]

Exactly. What about Dempster? He would have cost the farm. I've said it before. Every single year we hear that they didn't want to sacrifice the future' date=' so they sacrifice the present. Next season will be the same BS. Who are these great prospects that will be coming to Fenway next year or in 2013?[/quote']

 

Dempster has a 4.80 ERA from the NL Central. Bring that to the AL East, and he'll get shelled just like Lackey or Wakefield. Try again.

 

This year isn't a championship year. Without Buchholz, the pieces just weren't there, why waste prospects to come in second to the Phillies? You give up prospects to win it all, not to inevitably lose to someone else.

[SoxSport]

FO is spinning all sorts of excuses for themselves. It's bull, and I for one don't want to hear or read it. The Yanks have had an implosion by their #2 pitcher for the entire season. Their #3 Hughes has been basically useless all season long. They have had lots of injuries to their bullpen and ARod has missed a significant portion of the season.

 

The Rays lost their All Star LFer, their #2 pitcher and their entire bullpen to free agency, but yet they built a team that is charging hard.

 

I don't want to hear Front Office spin excuses by Red Sox brass. Stop the whining.

 

What you're saying is there is another problem. Complacency? Attitude? Conditioning?

 

I think the team needs new management on the field--with stronger leadership

and urgency to win. Better preparation in spring training.

 

I don't know about the FO--Theo definitely has a problem dealing the farm system--even for young established players like Pence. And then crowding the roster with dead horses and free agents. He has to come to terms with this obvious conflict.

[Palodios]

I think the team needs new management on the field--with stronger leadership

and urgency to win. Better preparation in spring training.

 

I don't know about the FO--Theo definitely has a problem dealing the farm system--even for young established players like Pence. And then crowding the roster with dead horses and free agents. He has to come to terms with this obvious conflict.

 

Do you really think Theo has a problem dealing the farm system? He traded three of the team's top five prospects last year for one of the best hitters in baseball. There is a difference between trading high quality prospects for high quality players, and trading high quality players for guys like Dempster.

 

I've said it many times in this thread, and others. I'm under the impression that Theo saw the season for what it was: The team is good, it will get to the playoffs, and maybe deep into the playoffs. But there is no move they could make to make them better than Philadelphia in a long series, especially without Ortiz for four games. So why waste prospects now when those prospects could be used in a trade for a better piece next offseason for a season that is much more winnable.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I guess I don't understand what the people who claim Theo did a poor job wanted him to do at the trade deadline.

 

You want him to trade for Ubaldo, the player whose shoulder the Rox refused to let NYY test extensively? And the Guardians offered far more than the Red Sox could have offered. Plus, since going to CLE, Ubaldo has posted a 4.98 ERA. And that's in the AL Central.

 

You want him to trade for Pence? Reddick was hitting .331 with a .935 OPS on 7/31. Most people on here agreed that we shouldn't sell the farm when we have "the future" in RF as it is.

 

Oh, and by the way, during this 2-8 streak the Sox are on, Reddick is hitting .394/.412/.606/1.018. You can't argue that he is to blame for this recent collapse.

 

You want him to trade for Harden? Since the ASB, he's got a 5.08 ERA. I don't see how he would be any kind of an upgrade.

 

So again, I ask, who the hell should Theo have mortgaged the farm to trade for? This argument is complete horseshit.