Sox go into break...

[SoxFanForsyth]

Prove it.

 

Prove that the lineup wouldn't be better by adding a .305/.360/.473 hitter with 50+ SB, 15+ HR, and 100+ runs to the top of the order.

 

I have a feeling you're going to have a much harder time than I am.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Pedroia doesn't need to hit 2nd, but Gonzalez needs to hit 3rd, and Crawford isn't as good as Pedroia to move him from 2nd. End of discussion.....just like it was 1 and 2 months ago.

 

Crawford has not shown .360 OBP skills in Boston. It's not accurate, nor honest, to portray him as someone that does that consistently.

 

He had a .360 OBP in his 1,330 plate appearances (covering 2009-2010) prior to coming to Boston. How is that "not accurate to portray him as someone that does that consistently". The year before that, he was hurt so his numbers all over the board were down. In 2007, he had a .355 OBP. Are we really going to argue whether the accuracy of depicting him as a .360 OBP guy because he had a .358 OBP over his past 3 healthy seasons?? Come on man. Be real. If anyone is trying to manipulate the data and being inaccurate, it's you.

 

What the hell is "consistently" if over 1,900 AB isn't?? And why does Gonzo HAVE TO hit 3rd? Sure, in a typical line up, you'd have him 3rd. But when you have Ellsbury, Crawford, and Pedroia on a team, hitting him 4th just gives him more opportunities to drive in runs.

 

Again, this is all assuming he has a 2007 or 2009-2010 type season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Prove it.

 

Apparently, putting a guy who consistently scores 95-100 runs per season in the top 3 of an order, and combine him with 2 other guys who score 95-100 runs per season, and stick those 3 in front of the MLB RBI leader, your offense doesnt get better

[redsoxrules]

You're taking AB away from you're best hitters by putting Crawford batting 2nd .

and you're also creating more outs putting Crawford batting second witch again takes away AB for the best hitters

 

and BTW Pedroia, Agon and Ellsbury score more consitensly than Crawford

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, the Crawford of this yr isnt a guy who can OBP .360. Hell, he's not even over .280. If he comes back and goes on fire, .400OBP, .450SLG and steals a ton of bases, then you move him up. If he doesnt, you leave him down there

[SoxFanForsyth]

Also' date=' the Crawford of this yr isnt a guy who can OBP .360. Hell, he's not even over .280. If he comes back and goes on fire, .400OBP, .450SLG and steals a ton of bases, then you move him up. If he doesnt, you leave him down there[/quote']

 

If you look at my original post, the argument was entirely predicated on Crawford returning to 2010 numbers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You're taking AB away from you're best hitters by putting Crawford batting 2nd .

and you're also creating more outs putting Crawford batting second witch again takes away AB for the best hitters

 

and BTW Pedroia, Agon and Ellsbury score more consitensly than Crawford

 

You're taking AB's away, but you're giving them a lot more RBI opportunities, which will result in more runs. You're also giving yourself the opportunity to run more in front of Gonzo to avoid the DP ball, which would result in less outs, as Gonzo is very DP prone.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you look at my original post' date=' the argument was entirely predicated on Crawford returning to 2010 numbers.[/quote']

 

He'd need to surpass them in order for his 2011 season to look similar to his 2010 one

[d-money]

We will make the playoffs.I am bold with that prediction.Anything less then a ALCS appearance would be a dissapointment in my view.I dont see any strong wildcard teams.Only Tampa

[SoxFanForsyth]

He'd need to surpass them in order for his 2011 season to look similar to his 2010 one

 

I don't care what his final numbers look like. We are in first place right now, so we overcame his poor start. Now let's see the Carl Crawford we all know. If he hits .305/.358/.440 the rest of the season, but ends up with a line of .265/.320/.390, I don't care. All I care about is now going forward, and anyone who is concerned more with end of year numbers rather than 2nd half numbers right now is dumb, not saying that's you, just saying at this point, his first half numbers are irrelevant.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Offense is rolling without CC batting 2nd. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[BornToRun]

Really interesting - thinking back to how bad our catching was offensively at the beginning of the year, we've all seen them turn it around, but I was surprised at this -

 

The Red Sox catchers are OPS'ing a combined .766. That is 2nd in the AL behind Detroit (.781). Everyone was loving Russell Martin at the beginning of the year, but the Yankees are OPS'ing .666 from their catchers.

 

Russell Martin and Francisco Cervelli are apparently the devil.

 

You do know they play for the Yankees, right?

 

EDIT: And off the topic of the Yankees blatant evilness, what are Crawford's numbers if you take away April? I'm guessing they're much closer to what we paid for. I think it was just an adjustment period.

[SoxSport]

I'd still like to know what the Yankees are putting in their Gatorade to hit all those dingers.

They are way ahead of everybody else in HRs, and funny not a word from the media about it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Granderson adjusted his swing, Tex has been slow with the hits, but his power started strong and that's about it. We have two guys on pace for 45HRs, that'll do it

[SoxFanForsyth]

You do know they play for the Yankees, right?

 

EDIT: And off the topic of the Yankees blatant evilness, what are Crawford's numbers if you take away April? I'm guessing they're much closer to what we paid for. I think it was just an adjustment period.

 

Yes. The Yankees catchers are OPS'ing .666. 666 = The Devil. See the correlation?

[BornToRun]

Yes. The Yankees catchers are OPS'ing .666. 666 = The Devil. See the correlation?

 

That was the point. It seemed like you were rather surprised at the discovery that the Yankees are evil.

[Thunder]

That was the point. It seemed like you were rather surprised at the discovery that the Yankees are evil.

 

I've known that all my life.

[ORS]

Prove that the lineup wouldn't be better by adding a .305/.360/.473 hitter with 50+ SB, 15+ IHR, and 100+ runs to the top of the order.

 

I have a feeling you're going to have a much harder time than I am.

I have a feeling you aren't paying attention. I have only stated my opinion, you phrase your statements as cold hard fact. The onus to prove something is on you.

 

The fact of the matter is, you "think" the lineup will be better as you envision it, so please refrain from statements that state it as irrefutable.

[redsoxbeatz]

And they're winning without CC. Theo take notice.

 

What the point of this? We spent 128(?) MILLION on him its not like he is going ANYWHERE.

[redsoxbeatz]

Should also say that Pedroia has hit phenomenally in the 4th spot. I'd like to see it TRIED with Ells-CC-Gonzo-Pedey just to test it out.... this would also help with minimizing the arguments over this even though no one here has no real say in it.

[SCM33]

........not again.

 

Really?????

 

CC will hit 6th, or lower.......for the rest of this season. When Pedroia is no longer a part of this team, or Ellsbury is no longer a part of this team, MAYBE CC hits in the top 2.

 

Why cant people accept that the lineup will be Ellsbury 1, Pedroia 2......with Crawford hitting 6th or lower?

[Thunder]

........not again.

 

Really?????

 

CC will hit 6th, or lower.......for the rest of this season. When Pedroia is no longer a part of this team, or Ellsbury is no longer a part of this team, MAYBE CC hits in the top 2.

 

Why cant people accept that the lineup will be Ellsbury 1, Pedroia 2......with Crawford hitting 6th or lower?

 

Exactly. Ellsbury has 9 or 10 years left, Pedroia has the same, they locked up Gonzalez for 8 years, Youk has 5 and said he wants to be with the Sox for his whole career, Ortiz has 2, possibly 3 years left.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't understand how/why people are complacent with the line up. I know it's performing well, but if we have the potential to make it perform better, why wouldn't you?

 

Look, it may not work out well, but we go into a 13 game stretch where we are playing the Orioles, the Mariners, the Royals, and the White Sox. Thats 4 series that we should win. Why not take advantage of the streak of weaker competition and see if our line up would be better suited with Crawford in the 2 slot?

[a700hitter]

The line up was rocking with Crawford in the 6th spot before he got injured.

[SoxSport]

If you look at the major league stats at the halfway point, the Red Sox are first in hitting and (surprise) defense--fewest errors. But in the middle of the pack in pitching (14th). BAA is among the best, but ERA is low--the Lackey effect? Also the effect, maybe, of a bullpen that gets used 3-4 times a game --win or lose. But that's baseball today.

[SoxSport]

The line up was rocking with Crawford in the 6th spot before he got injured.

 

The lineup rocks without Crawford.

 

The question is how do you get your $20 million worth out of this guy? They haven't solved that puzzle yet. One hint: 7 SBs. It's not Crawford OR Ellsbury--It's Crawford AND Ellsbury.

[a700hitter]

The lineup rocks without Crawford.

 

The question is how do you get your $20 million worth out of this guy? They haven't solved that puzzle yet. One hint: 7 SBs. It's not Crawford OR Ellsbury--It's Crawford AND Ellsbury.

It will not take long for teams to figure out that they shouldn't challenge Ortiz if he has Salty or Drew protecting him. Putting Crawford behind Ortiz provides more protection and it helps supercharge the bottom of the order.

[Thunder]

Crawford can carry a team when he's hot. When the team is hot overall, CC usually isn't. That's why the Sox are in first being without him for a month.

[AtWork]

I assume people want Crawford at the top of the order because of his speed. But we already have a 50+ SB guy and a 20+ stolen base guy at the top of the order who get on base more than 37% of the time. I want as many people as possible on base for Gonzalez, Youkilis and Ortiz to drive in. Putting Crawford in the one or two spot will mean less runners on base for them. Crawford's speed can be just as useful at the bottom of the order where his ability to get into scoring position will be more valuable in front of our singles hitters who are less apt to drive someone in from first.

[redsoxrules]

The lineup rocks without Crawford.

 

The question is how do you get your $20 million worth out of this guy? They haven't solved that puzzle yet. One hint: 7 SBs. It's not Crawford OR Ellsbury--It's Crawford AND Ellsbury.

 

Yes , because HE CANT GET ON BASE . Not sure why its so hard to understand that

 

OMFG , it dosent matter in what order in the lineup he is if he cant get on base .

 

you cant steal first base .