DH future

[Ace]

What happens after Ortiz? Pujols or Fielder?

[example1]

Doubtful. I suspect they may resign Ortiz to another couple seasons, making the "after Ortiz" question a 2014 problem.

[Palodios]

Ortiz will be the DH in 2012. Bud Selig's comments about removing the DH position, will give the Red Sox a ton of leverage to keep him to a 1-2 year deal. And because of those comments, I do not see any team signing Pujols/Fielder as a long term DH, including the Yankees.

 

There have been some murmurings about Lavarnway possibly becoming the heir apparent moving forward.

[Ace]

The DH isn't going anywhere. The American League owners don't want it gone, and neither does the Players Association (because the MLBPA is run by the veterans, and the rule benefits veterans most of all).

[Palodios]

The DH isn't going anywhere. The American League owners don't want it gone' date=' and neither does the Players Association (because the MLBPA is run by the veterans, and the rule benefits veterans most of all).[/quote']

 

Agreed, I don't see it going anywhere either. But with that decision yet unsettled, it will definitely affect contract negotiations for guys who can't play the field.

[RedSox_Ruszkowski]

Agreed' date=' I don't see it going anywhere either. But with that decision yet unsettled, it will definitely affect contract negotiations for guys who can't play the field.[/quote']

 

i agree too. i like the DH role. it gives aging players who can still hit a way to still be productive for their team. but some players just can't be "just a dh". you sit in the dugout all game and you get 4 AB's. players that are used to playing teh field sometimes just get used to that "cool off" time in the dugout. (i.e. Pat Burrell with the Rays.)

[Dojji]

I wouldn't assume Papi's gone next year. I suspect we call up Lavarnway next year and have him play a role as second catcher and DH platoon with Ortiz

[Palodios]

Why? Ortiz is hitting LHP now.

[Dojji]

I know, but when they figure out a test for what he's on at the moment, that changes pretty quick.

[SCM33]

Youkilis is the future at DH for the team. His physical conditioning is gradually getting worse and hes average at best at 3B.

[Palodios]

I know' date=' but when they figure out a test for what he's on at the moment, that changes pretty quick.[/quote']

 

He's hitting for average against lefties, not power....

[Dojji]

If you think all steroids and HGH affected was loft on the ball, you're mistaken. It's all about recovering from the stress of the game in time for the next one.

[jacksonianmarch]

Papi is having a hell of a contract yr and will be a Type A FA. Dont think for a moment that Theo wouldnt love to free up the spot and get 2 picks for his trouble. Someone is going to overpay Ortiz, thinking that his line this yr is something he can replicate going forward. Theo and Cashman both want to have flexibility at that position, rather than be locked in. I think Papi gets a 3 yr deal on the open market, and I think Theo will just say sayonara

[Station 13]

He isn't going anywhere. But giving him anything more than 2 year is foolish. Give him the same pay over two year and he'll shut up.

[Palodios]

That post seriously needs a hilarious .gif next to it. Older DHs are lucky to get 1 year deals. Guerrero only got 6 and 8 the last two years. Manny at age 31, after a 1.031 OPS season, and capable of fielding, got a 2/50 contract. Do you really see Ortiz at 36, after a .900 OPS season, getting a long term deal? There are probably five or less teams who will even entertain the thought of signing him.

[RedSox_Ruszkowski]

Papi is having a hell of a contract yr and will be a Type A FA. Dont think for a moment that Theo wouldnt love to free up the spot and get 2 picks for his trouble. Someone is going to overpay Ortiz' date=' thinking that his line this yr is something he can replicate going forward. Theo and Cashman both want to have flexibility at that position, rather than be locked in. I think Papi gets a 3 yr deal on the open market, and I think Theo will just say sayonara[/quote']

 

you bring up a good point. i don't think theo want to entertain a third year if that's what papi wants. it will really come down to whether ortiz wants to jump at one last big contract or just go year by year and retire in boston.

[a700hitter]

Papi is having a hell of a contract yr and will be a Type A FA. Dont think for a moment that Theo wouldnt love to free up the spot and get 2 picks for his trouble. Someone is going to overpay Ortiz' date=' thinking that his line this yr is something he can replicate going forward. Theo and Cashman both want to have flexibility at that position, rather than be locked in. I think Papi gets a 3 yr deal on the open market, and I think Theo will just say sayonara[/quote']That's what you hope. It ain't gonna happen. Big Papi will torture you and your yankees for at least 2 more seasons. Draft picks? ... to replace the production of a .900 OPS guy? That would be idiocy. Keep dreaming.

[example1]

That's what you hope. It ain't gonna happen. Big Papi will torture you and your yankees for at least 2 more seasons. Draft picks? ... to replace the production of a .900 OPS guy? That would be idiocy. Keep dreaming.

 

I actually think it's a solid point if he's a type A and they can get the draft picks for him. Theo has shown time and time again that he's willing to let good players go for the picks and I think Ortiz's value as a DH is less than guys like Beltre or VMart who played on both sides of the ball.

 

I still think they will resign Ortiz, but if there's a decent plan B I can support draft picks and reinvestment elsewhere.

[a700hitter]

I actually think it's a solid point if he's a type A and they can get the draft picks for him. Theo has shown time and time again that he's willing to let good players go for the picks and I think Ortiz's value as a DH is less than guys like Beltre or VMart who played on both sides of the ball.

 

I still think they will resign Ortiz, but if there's a decent plan B I can support draft picks and reinvestment elsewhere.

It ain't gonna happen. Mark it down and hold me to it.

 

Edit: Because Ortiz only plays one side of the ball, he will be cheaper than the other options while providing more offensive production. Plus, Vmart's value on the other side of the ball isn't anything great and Beltre's ain't gonna DH.

[Palodios]

I actually think it's a solid point if he's a type A and they can get the draft picks for him. Theo has shown time and time again that he's willing to let good players go for the picks and I think Ortiz's value as a DH is less than guys like Beltre or VMart who played on both sides of the ball.

 

I still think they will resign Ortiz, but if there's a decent plan B I can support draft picks and reinvestment elsewhere.

 

Interesting thought, but I really want to stress the point... is anyone else really that interested? Before we get into good fits, 16 teams are already eliminated.

 

The Yankees simply cannot commit to a 3 year DH when they have Jeter and A-rod waiting to move over-- and if they weren't, they'd probably go for Fielder instead. As far as other big market teams? The White Sox have Dunn. The Angels have Abreu. The Tigers have Martinez. The Twins may need to keep it open for often injured Morneau/Mauer. Where else does he really fit? Whoever buys him will have to pay 2-3 extra million per year, and I seriously doubt anyone will want to give him 3 years, or 14+ million.

[a700hitter]

Interesting thought, but I really want to stress the point... is anyone else really that interested? Before we get into good fits, 16 teams are already eliminated.

 

This is it^. This reduces his market value, which makes him a really good value for his offensive production. He will be with the Red Sox in 2012 barring injury. I am just surprised that E1 didn't see through Jacko's BS.

[example1]

This is it^. This reduces his market value' date=' which makes him a really good value for his offensive production. He will be with the Red Sox in 2012 barring injury. I am just surprised that E1 didn't see through Jacko's BS.[/quote']

 

 

I can see teams like Oakland and Seattle taking a flier on a multi-year deal just for some middle-order name recognition.

 

If you guys are putting your eggs in the "other teams won't want him" basket then it has less to do with how the Sox see him and more to do with just hoping/assuming other teams wouldn't be interested. That, combined with the draft picks he would offer in return, still presents a strong case that Ortiz may not be back here next year.

 

Remember, my first post said I suspected he would be back; I'm simply open to the possibility that Theo would prefer draft picks and freeing up money.

 

I also don't see Ortiz agreeing to sign to a team-friendly, short-term deal after this season and I don't see the Sox paying him what he thinks he is worth.

[a700hitter]

I can see teams like Oakland and Seattle taking a flier on a multi-year deal just for some middle-order name recognition.

 

If you guys are putting your eggs in the "other teams won't want him" basket then it has less to do with how the Sox see him and more to do with just hoping/assuming other teams wouldn't be interested. That, combined with the draft picks he would offer in return, still presents a strong case that Ortiz may not be back here next year.

 

Remember, my first post said I suspected he would be back; I'm simply open to the possibility that Theo would prefer draft picks and freeing up money.

 

I also don't see Ortiz agreeing to sign to a team-friendly, short-term deal after this season and I don't see the Sox paying him what he thinks he is worth.

I think Ortiz knows that Fenway suits him perfectly, and I don't think the Sox will be looking for a discount, and I don't think teams like Oakland and Seattle will outbid the Sox. Your imagination is running away with you on this. It ain't going to happen. 35 HRs 100+ RBI and .900+ OPS isn't easy to replace. The recent interleague series has demonstrated his importance to the middle of the lineup. The Sox would not be thrilled to get a couple of draft picks to replace that production. Luckily he doesn't play a position or his cost would be very high.

[Ace]

Its probably going to require 2 years/30 million for Ortiz to stay in Boston

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, the question becomes, what do you pay him to stay? I think the fans choice is to keep Papi. But Theo has been said to want flexibility, and when your DH is a guy who cannot do anything but, it kinda saps your flexibility. That being said, if you give a guy a full day and your DH hits to a .900OPS, then you should count your lucky stars. I think the sox will do with Papi what they did with all their aging stars. Offer them something they think is fair. If someone outbids them, then they wont chase him. I think there is a very real possibility that one of the teams in the AL will offer him 3 yrs. And while the sox might offer the most AAV, I doubt they go past 2. If papi wants to stay, then he takes the less years. If Papi doesnt, then he goes

[Thunder]

Youkilis is the future at DH for the team. His physical conditioning is gradually getting worse and hes average at best at 3B.

 

Who would go to third?

[Dojji]

Jed Lowrie, probably.

[Palodios]

I can see teams like Oakland and Seattle taking a flier on a multi-year deal just for some middle-order name recognition.

 

If you guys are putting your eggs in the "other teams won't want him" basket then it has less to do with how the Sox see him and more to do with just hoping/assuming other teams wouldn't be interested.

 

I understand your argument, but you missed one major factor. Of the teams who have a need at DH, none will yield a first round pick. Let's take a serious look at the teams who may be interested.

 

Yankees, Angels, White Sox, Tigers, Twins-- not happening for reasons stated above.

 

Texas Rangers? Michael Young. Guardians? Hafner. Rays/Royals? I don't see them paying a quarter of their salary on a aging slugger, especially since they'll probably want to try to make smart moves locking up young guys early.

 

That leaves the Mariners, Orioles, Athletics, Blue Jays. These are teams at the bottom of the AL. Oakland and Seattle are pitcher's parks, and Seattle/Toronto/Baltimore have almost no chance of making the postseason in the next three years, so they will have to overbid to get him out of Boston.

[SCM33]

Who would go to third?

 

Doesn't really matter. Youkilis is eating himself out of a position now that Gonzalez is in town.

 

Ortiz may hang around for another year, but Youkilis is the future DH of this team.

[example1]

I think Ortiz knows that Fenway suits him perfectly' date=' and I don't think the Sox will be looking for a discount, and I don't think teams like Oakland and Seattle will outbid the Sox. Your imagination is running away with you on this. It ain't going to happen. 35 HRs 100+ RBI and .900+ OPS isn't easy to replace. The recent interleague series has demonstrated his importance to the middle of the lineup. The Sox would not be thrilled to get a couple of draft picks to replace that production. Luckily he doesn't play a position or his cost would be very high.[/quote']

 

 

 

I hope you're right. It is a great natural fit and he clearly doesn't have a lot of other options. Plus, they are much more likely to play their game of draft-pick chicken with Papelbon after the season and enjoy any draft picks they get from his dumb-ass than let go of their middle-order, affordable, hometown-hero bat.