Would you be okay with the Sox starting Gonzo in the OF during interleague play?

[WhiskeyBreath]

Maybe. A big part of this is that they don't want Ortiz sitting for the entire road trip. It sucks to sit your best player and the possible MVP of the entire league but why not just give Gonzalez a day off if you MUST get Ortiz into the lineup?

 

I know that Gonzo is most likely going to be fine but I don't like the idea of taking an unnecessary risk with your franchise player and dicking around with the guy and taking him out of his comfort zone.

 

It's just bad timing right now. Crawford is hurt and they have terrible backup outfielders.

[Palodios]

Tito talked about this on WEEI today. Two things,

 

1) It sounded like Tito was putting Ortiz in explicitly for the purpose of giving him AB.

 

2) A-gon talked to him explicitly about how he would be smart about playing the OF, and how he knows his limits.

[Divinity]

I can understand putting A Gon in the OF during the playoffs but for regular season games its really not worth the risk

[a700hitter]

I can understand putting A Gon in the OF during the playoffs but for regular season games its really not worth the risk

Maybe they should see how he plays in RF during the regular season rather than put him out there for the first time in the playoffs with everything on the line.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Poor AdGon. The guy is half carrying the team with his hitting. Now he has to play RF for them too.

Maybe even with his first basemen's mitt.

 

Even the Globe has gotten on the bandwagon. After all, who cares about defense? Right?

 

What if the guy gets embarrassed out there? CC should wrap some tape around his leg and volunteer.

 

AdGon having to play RF could be viewed as Epstein's failure to build some depth in this team.

 

You make a couple good points.

 

I'm glad someone other than me is getting after Theo for this terrible mess that is the OF.

[Palodios]

You make a couple good points.

 

I'm glad someone other than me is getting after Theo for this terrible mess that is the OF.

 

How is this Theo's fault? Mcdonald and Drew are hitting well below career averages. Kalish, Navarro, Crawford, and Linares all have lost significant time this season. Cameron is the only guy in the group you can really blame him for. He had 8 serviceable options, and 7 flopped, that is just bad luck, not his fault.

[iortiz]

How is this Theo's fault? Mcdonald and Drew are hitting well below career averages. Kalish' date=' Navarro, Crawford, and Linares all have lost significant time this season. Cameron is the only guy in the group you can really blame him for. He had 8 serviceable options, and 7 flopped, that is just bad luck, not his fault.[/quote']

 

yeup! but at this point (almost half of the season), and looking at McD's and Cameron's terrible performances, should Theo make a drastic move about it?, even TF's thoughts or just wait till off-season.

[a700hitter]

How is this Theo's fault? Mcdonald and Drew are hitting well below career averages. Kalish' date=' Navarro, Crawford, and Linares all have lost significant time this season. Cameron is the only guy in the group you can really blame him for. He had 8 serviceable options, and 7 flopped, that is just bad luck, not his fault.[/quote']McDonald has career averages? He's a bush leaguer with little or no track record. He should not have been an option. You can't blame Theo for Drew falling off a cliff, but Cameron was a bad decision from day one. Theo did nothing to build OF depth, nothing. He has done nothing about the black hole at SS either.

[SoxSport]

The killer has been Kalish's injury. He would be up by now playing RF. Nothing has gone right for them in RF this year.

 

To risk AdGon in RF last night was folly. Did you see him stretch for Utley's blast up against the fence? They are damn lucky he wasn't injured on that play.

 

Hopefully that's the last we see of that experiment.

 

I'm reading Drew's eye cleared up and he took batting practice. So why wasn't he playing RF last night?

[a700hitter]

I'm reading Drew's eye cleared up and he took batting practice. So why wasn't he playing RF last night?

He stinks. That is why.

[Palodios]

McDonald has career averages? He's a bush leaguer with little or no track record. He should not have been an option. You can't blame Theo for Drew falling off a cliff' date=' but Cameron was a bad decision from day one. Theo did nothing to build OF depth, nothing. He has done nothing about the black hole at SS either.[/quote']

 

8 options. 1 hitting above .220. That is not his fault.

[a700hitter]

8 options. 1 hitting above .220. That is not his fault.

8 options?

 

McDonald- not an option - a bush league hack

Cameron- not an option- old over the hill, injured and fat

Kalish-- not an option-- needed more seasoning regardless of injury

 

 

Who were the other 5 options? He built a thin OF, and one thing went wrong-- JD is over the hill. You have to expect some injuries. He had no depth built into the OF-- none.

[Palodios]

8 options?

 

McDonald- not an option - a bush league hack

Cameron- not an option- old over the hill, injured and fat

Kalish-- not an option-- needed more seasoning regardless of injury

 

 

Who were the other 5 options? He built a thin OF, and one thing went wrong-- JD is over the hill. You have to expect some injuries. He had no depth built into the OF-- none.

 

Cameron hit 25 home runs only two years ago. Last year, Mcdonald was more than serviceable as a 4th/5th OF. Other teams were high on Linares, and were asking about him, believing him to be major league depth, before he got injured. Kalish was going to be a midseason callup... you know, for when Crawford got hurt in June. Navarro was being prepared for the OF before getting injured. Add Reddick, and there are 6 other potential backup outfielders, 9 options in the OF.

 

He built a lot of depth. The thing about building depth is you don't sign a bunch of major league caliber players for depth. You sign a bunch of guy with major league potential, and hope one of them works out. It is the same exact situation with the bullpen-- Albers and Miller worked out. Atchison did not, and Doubront/Hill ended upon the DL.

[a700hitter]

Cameron hit 25 home runs only two years ago. Last year, Mcdonald was more than serviceable as a 4th/5th OF. Other teams were high on Linares, and were asking about him, believing him to be major league depth, before he got injured. Kalish was going to be a midseason callup... you know, for when Crawford got hurt in June. Navarro was being prepared for the OF before getting injured. Add Reddick, and there are 6 other potential backup outfielders, 9 options in the OF.

 

He built a lot of depth. The thing about building depth is you don't sign a bunch of major league caliber players for depth. You sign a bunch of guy with major league potential, and hope one of them works out. It is the same exact situation with the bullpen-- Albers and Miller worked out. Atchison did not, and Doubront/Hill ended upon the DL.

Two years ago is a long time in the life of an OFer, especially a 38 year old OFer. He got injured last year and looked like an old war horse. Bautista had the same injury and hit 54 HRs last season playing through the injury. The writing has been on the wall for Cameron. He's toast.

 

You are over exaggerating the major league readiness of Linares, and Navarro to play the OF for the Sox. If this is what you consider depth, I would have told you in March that it was not depth, and I would have been proved right.

 

Edit: If I knew, Theo should have known.

[Palodios]

You are over exaggerating the major league readiness of Linares' date=' and Navarro to play the OF for the Sox[/quote']

 

No, I'm not. I'm not saying that April 1st, 2011 that Navarro/Kalish/Linares would be ready. They were supposed to be guys who trickled in, and filled in around June, July, August. There is absolutely no way that Theo was going to find two guys to replace Crawford and Drew's expected production and stick them in AAA for a league minimum salary.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' I'm not. I'm not saying that April 1st, 2011 that Navarro/Kalish/Linares would be ready. They were supposed to be guys who trickled in, and filled in around June, July, August. [b']There is absolutely no way that Theo was going to find two guys to replace Crawford and Drew's expected production and stick them in AAA for a league minimum salary.[/b]

I am not saying that he was going to find that, but he should have DFA'd Cameron and got someone younger and more reliable than Cameron as the 4th OFer. He also should have gotten a major league utility type as the 5th OFer-- someone like Hinske or Wiggington.

[Palodios]

I am not saying that he was going to find that' date=' but he should have DFA'd Cameron and got someone younger and more reliable than Cameron as the 4th OFer. He also should have gotten a major league utility type as the 5th OFer-- someone like Hinske or Wiggington.[/quote']

 

Wiggington? You're asking for a guy that plays everyday on a playoff contending team hitting .850. The Rockies had to pay him 3/12, I don't see him wanting to sit on the Red Sox bench without making significantly more money... Do you really see Theo paying 3/18 for him?

[a700hitter]

Wiggington? You're asking for a guy that plays everyday on a playoff contending team hitting .850. The Rockies had to pay him 3/12' date=' I don't see him wanting to sit on the Red Sox bench without making significantly more money... Do you really see Theo paying 3/18 for him?[/quote']I was using him as an example of versatility, not a perfect payroll fit etc. What about Hinske, or Willie harris or Willie Bloomquist? There are a lot of guys that would fill that need.

[Palodios]

I was using him as an example of versatility' date=' not a perfect payroll fit etc. What about Hinske, or Willie harris or Willie Bloomquist? There are a lot of guys that would fill that need.[/quote']

 

Both of those are .600 OPS guys. If Theo got them, right now, you'd complaining about them now.

[mikebellhorn]

watching that game was like jaws i was waiting for agone to die. rf is dangerous place.

[a700hitter]

Both of those are .600 OPS guys. If Theo got them' date=' right now, you'd complaining about them now. [/quote']It's double what McDonald is doing, plus they are established major league utility guys. I don't expect my utility guys to have .800 or .900 OPS, but I don't expect them to have a batting average that is less than the weight of a skinny 7th grader. Bloomquist and Hinske are major league options for a utility 5th OFer type. McDonald is not a major leaguer and he is not a versatile utility guy. The 4th OFer should be a pure OFer with stronger stats.

[Palodios]

It's double what McDonald is doing' date=' plus they are established major league utility guys. I don't expect my utility guys to have .800 or .900 OPS, but I don't expect them to have a batting average that is less than the weight of a skinny 7th grader. Bloomquist and Hinske are major league options for a utility 5th OFer type. McDonald is not a major leaguer and he is not a versatile utility guy. The 4th OFer should be a pure OFer with stronger stats.[/quote']

 

Let me put this into perspective for you. Going into 2011 the Red Sox lost Bill Hall, Jeremy Hermida and Eric Patterson. That's it. They added Carl Crawford, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Mike Cameron, and their prospects got a year closer to the majors. Logically, you'd think this OF would get considerably better. It did not. I don't understand why you blame Theo for that.

[a700hitter]

Let me put this into perspective for you. Going into 2011 the Red Sox lost Bill Hall' date=' Jeremy Hermida and Eric Patterson. That's it. They added Carl Crawford, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Mike Cameron, and their prospects got a year closer to the majors. Logically, you'd think this OF would get considerably better. It did not. I don't understand why you blame Theo for that.[/quote']Because he started the season with the following OF:

 

1. Crawford- Free Agent stud-

2. Ellsbury -- Coming off a season long injury-- a question mark that has performed better than expected

3. Drew- His numbers declined last year and he was complaining of injury before ST started. His decline was foreseeable.

4. Camero -- Just a horrible idea to sign a 37 year old CFer to a 2 year contract. He should have been released in t eh spring.

5. McDonald -- A bumb

 

This was a thin OF to start the season. Ellsbury has taken up his oar in a big way, or it would be even worse. You overestimate the major league readiness of our prospects. There should have been better Major league options on the roster. That's his fault.

 

BTW: Last years OF stunk too.

[Palodios]

BTW: Last years OF stunk too.

 

I think you're missing my point. Last year's OF was crummy, but it wasn't THIS bad. They found replacement level players, which pissed us all off, but .600 outfielders aren't exactly rare, and they found them last year from pretty much nothing. This year, guys who should be .600 outfielders are .400 outfielders.

[a700hitter]

I think you're missing my point. Last year's OF was crummy' date=' but it wasn't THIS bad. They found replacement level players, which pissed us all off, but .600 outfielders aren't exactly rare, and they found them last year from pretty much nothing. This year, guys who should be .600 outfielders are .400 outfielders.[/quote']If the team wins Theo can take his bows, but if they go down in flames because of a punch-less thin OF, he has to take the blame. There was nothing so unforeseeable that has occurred.

[Palodios]

If the team wins Theo can take his bows' date=' but if they go down in flames because of a punch-less thin OF, he has to take the blame. There was nothing so unforeseeable that has occurred.[/quote']

 

4 of his 8 options in the OF are on the DL, and none of them are Nancy Drew/ Glassbury. You can't forsee injuries.

[a700hitter]

4 of his 8 options in the OF are on the DL' date=' and none of them are Nancy Drew/ Glassbury. You can't forsee injuries.[/quote']Three of those 4 were in the minor leagues, so they weren't major league options at the start of the season. The other DL was Crawford.

[Palodios]

Kalish was a major league caliber OF last season, and only going to improve. They thought they had the luxury of keeping him in AAA. Navarro has been pretty good in AAA, so let's see how he goes before assuming he's a scrub. Linares was receiving some great scouting reports, but he was definitely a toss to the dart board-- unfortunately, that dart missed the target altogether.

[a700hitter]

Kalish was a major league caliber OF last season' date=' and only going to improve. [/quote']

Kalish was the one unforeseen contingency that went bad. Ellsbury was a question mark that went right. Still Theo's fault.

[Palodios]

Kalish was the one unforeseen contingency that went bad. Ellsbury was a question mark that went right. Still Theo's fault.

 

I figured that we'd see a similar change in Cameron's stats, kind of how Mike Lowell's numbers declined in his last year. I don't know what from Cameron's skill set made you think he'd turn into a .150 hitter. Or turn from an exceptional center fielder defensively to a terrible corner outfielder. He was going to decline significantly, but not to the point where a single A player could outperform him.

 

I also don't understand how you forsaw that Drew would decide he wanted to hit .150 with RISP.