Crawford Lineup Shuffle?

[Palodios]

If you're going to move Crawford up, I would argue that putting him 2nd makes more sense than 3rd. Of all the left handed hitters on this team to be doubled up, Ellsbury is the best because he has had incredibly even splits throughout his career. If you have Ells/Craw/Pedroia together, you want one of the elite speed guys hitting in the middle for arguably more double-steals, Pedroia can score either with his monster double numbers, and he sees more fastballs.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm good with that. Crawford and Pedroia are interchangeable in the 2/3 slot if you ask me.

 

After watching the games so far, I'm not sure if Ellsbury is actually faster or if he just gets better jumps, but I think he's a better base stealer than Crawford.

[Dojji]

I see no real difficulty in exploiting Crawford's speed on the bottom half of the lineup. Even a really good on base hitter gets on base less than half of the time. The number of times when there will be sufficient basepath clogging to impact his speed is minimal, only a few more than there would be the second time through a lineup when it's the 8 hitter blocking his way at the top of a lineup.

[Palodios]

JD Drew, this team's current #6 hitter, has been hitting with runners on in 70 of his 148 plate appearances. Actually, right now Drew has an abyssmal .454 OPS with RISP, so maybe Crawford at 6 might make more sense than we thought, considering that he has value beating out the DP as well.

[a700hitter]

I'll echo a700's post about not changing the 3/4/5. That being the case, two of Ellsbury/Pedroia/Crawford can fill the 1/2 spots. Whoever it is doesn't matter to me. I think it's prudent to stick with Ellsbury/Pedroia because despite Crawford's recent surge, he's not hitting better than JE since he took the leadoff spot, and Pedroia is RH, an excellent #2 hitter with speed on in front of him, and a good bet to put up better offensive numbers by season's end. I don't disagree that when he's going good that Crawford is a top of the order hitter, but so are the other two, and his talents don't warrant moving Gonzalez/Youk/Ortiz down in the order. It's is simple as that.

 

On another note, how nice is it to have this discussion? With Lowrie hitting the way he has, the catchers getting the memo and pulling out of their funk, and Drew still being a grinder who gets on base, this lineup is loaded. So what if Crawford hits 6th, there are worse problems to have. Enjoy it.

I agree that the most important part of this lineups construction is keeping the 3-4-5 hitters right where they are. Every game we will send at least one guy to the plate with heavy artillery. Many games we will send up two or three. The result will be that many opposing pitchers will get smoked before they have broken a sweat. It's nice to jump in front, and getting your big guns to the plate in the first inning gives you a great chance of jumping on top. Batting 3 singles hitters to start the game really diminishes those chances. Ellsbury is going well right now and Pedroia can get white hot at any moment, so Crawford will probably not crack the top of the lineup for a while. He'll do just fine in the 6 hole for now. If Ells turns cold and goes 0 for 10 or 11, Francona can insert Crawford and the lineup won't miss a beat.

[ORS]

JD Drew' date=' this team's current #6 hitter, has been hitting with runners on in 70 of his 148 plate appearances. Actually, right now Drew has an abyssmal .454 OPS with RISP, so maybe Crawford at 6 might make more sense than we thought, considering that he has value beating out the DP as well.[/quote']

Only 48 of those 70 PA have had a runner on 1st.

 

Crawford hits a triple about once every 50 PA, so he would have been "clogged" once, just once, this year. Yawn.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah. Clogged once via the triple. Let's not forget about the amount of times Crawford will be clogged at 1st by singles, clogged at 2nd when slow guys can't score from 2nd on singles to RF.

 

Crawford is a gap hitter. That's 48 plate appearances already where a double in the gap would result in an RBI. It isn't just triples, and it's not just Crawford's stats. It's team scoring. Crawford will drive in more runners if there are fast people in front of him because he doesn't go deep as much. So why not put him in the 3 slot where Ells and Pedey can score from 1st on gappers?

[Palodios]

Only 48 of those 70 PA have had a runner on 1st.

 

Crawford hits a triple about once every 50 PA, so he would have been "clogged" once, just once, this year. Yawn.

 

If there are slow runners on base in front of him, it doesn't matter if they are on 1st/2nd, they'll slow him up in one way or another at some point. If there is one runner, who is at 3rd, that is less of a problem, but that situation is less common. That being said, I still agree with you-- having too much offensive talent is a good problem to have.

[a700hitter]

The construction of the lineup isn't driven by considerations to optimize one player's performance. The 3-4-5 guys are the engine to this lineup. They make this lineup click. They are a devastating trio who make everyone around them better. They shouldn't move. That leaves only two other spots at the top of the lineup with 4 very good hitters (Ellsbury, Pedroia, Crawford and Lowrie) as the candidates for those two spots. 3-4-and 5 don't move. Extending the lineup by pushing these guys to 4-5-and 6 would be a big mistake.

[Dojji]

The construction of the lineup isn't driven by considerations to optimize one player's performance.

 

And if it were, that player would be Gonzalez.

[Brown28]

Heres the "problem". 6 all-star hitters. 5 "top" spots. The math doesnt work so someone has to hit 6th. The only two candidates for this spot are crawford and pedroia. Personally I would rather have Crawford there then Pedey simply based on the fact that Crawford has more pop in his bat then pedey does. And with Gonzo, Youk, and Papi all hitting for good averages he shold get a tonne of RBI oppertunities. Plus with the 2B and 3B he hits he sets the table for lowrie hitting 7. So now a pitcher has to be worried about 7 hitters in the lineup.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah. Clogged once via the triple. Let's not forget about the amount of times Crawford will be clogged at 1st by singles, clogged at 2nd when slow guys can't score from 2nd on singles to RF.

 

Crawford is a gap hitter. That's 48 plate appearances already where a double in the gap would result in an RBI. It isn't just triples, and it's not just Crawford's stats. It's team scoring. Crawford will drive in more runners if there are fast people in front of him because he doesn't go deep as much. So why not put him in the 3 slot where Ells and Pedey can score from 1st on gappers?

 

Crawford is NOT a power hitter, hence he should not bat 3rd .

 

would you not rather take you're chances of Agon hitting a bomb than Crawford hitting a gap shot?

and actually , the chances of Agon hitting a bomb are greater than Crawford hitting a gap shot and have someone score from first at the same time.

[SCM33]

Why does everyone want to screw around with the lineup?

 

Leave it alone, they are FINALLY starting to come together as an offensive unit. Crawford will not hit 8th all season long and I suspect when they do move him up, its not going to be any higher than 6.

 

Stop saying "we didnt pay this guy 142 million to hit sixth", because you are right. We didnt pay him, you didnt, I didnt.....the Redsox did. They foolishly paid him a ton of money that a traditional slugger would make. There is nothing wrong with him hitting 6th.

[Dojji]

Crawford is NOT a power hitter

 

Carl Crawford has not failed to slug .450 or more since his rookie campaign. He isn't a home run hitter but he uses his legs to leverage a high SLG and gets a lot of triples (having led the league in them 4 different seasons).

 

So a traditional power hitter he isn't, but saying he isn't a power hitter at all is just not true.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Why does everyone want to screw around with the lineup?

 

Leave it alone, they are FINALLY starting to come together as an offensive unit. Crawford will not hit 8th all season long and I suspect when they do move him up, its not going to be any higher than 6.

 

Stop saying "we didnt pay this guy 142 million to hit sixth", because you are right. We didnt pay him, you didnt, I didnt.....the Redsox did. They foolishly paid him a ton of money that a traditional slugger would make. There is nothing wrong with him hitting 6th.

 

Because everyone thinks they can manage a professional baseball team. The large amount of Tito haters doesn't help either.

[a700hitter]

Why does everyone want to screw around with the lineup?

 

Leave it alone, they are FINALLY starting to come together as an offensive unit. Crawford will not hit 8th all season long and I suspect when they do move him up, its not going to be any higher than 6.

 

Stop saying "we didnt pay this guy 142 million to hit sixth", because you are right. We didnt pay him, you didnt, I didnt.....the Redsox did. They foolishly paid him a ton of money that a traditional slugger would make. There is nothing wrong with him hitting 6th.

The team is on a roll, which is why Tito will not screw around with the lineup. When they hit a cold streak and Ellsbury goes 0 fer a week, Crawford will be moved to the top.

[redsoxrules]

Carl Crawford has not failed to slug .450 or more since his rookie campaign. He isn't a home run hitter but he uses his legs to leverage a high SLG and gets a lot of triples (having led the league in them 4 different seasons).

 

So a traditional power hitter he isn't, but saying he isn't a power hitter at all is just not true.

 

First off , CC has failed to slug 450 Twice and will fail this year .

also barely made it to 450 2 other times

 

and also... Crawfords SLG is boosted by his triples witch is miss leading

[Dojji]

First off , CC has failed to slug 450 Twice

 

Yep, once in his rookie campaign (which I referenced) and one I missed in 2008. He's still pretty danged consistent at it.

 

and will fail this year .

 

While you're telling the future, how do the Bruins do this postseason?

 

and also... Crawfords SLG is boosted by his triples witch is miss leading (sic)

 

I don't think it is misleading. SLG is a reference for offensive consistency, it doesn't matter how you get the bases per at bat as long as you do..

 

Also another guy who tended to just barely hit .450? Mike Lowell. I'd call him a "power hitter."

[SoxFanForsyth]

First off , CC has failed to slug 450 Twice and will fail this year .

also barely made it to 450 2 other times

 

and also... Crawfords SLG is boosted by his triples witch is miss leading

 

Yeah. He failed twice. Guess when. Rookie season and 2008 when he was hurt. How is his SLG due to triples misleading?? Is slugging only good because of HR? WTF are you smoking? Does a triple clear the bases?? I'm sorry, you're right. His slugging should be around .250 because he doesn't hit any HR and triples are meaningless. That's about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard anyone say in my life.

 

As far as him not slugging .450 this year, how about the fact that he's slugged .510 in May this year? You just going to completely ignore that? I don't give a s*** if he reaches the .450 mark or not this year. All I care about is how he does from today forward. If he slugs .450 from today on, and because of a slow April, his stats show him at .420 or something, whatever who gives a s***. Crawford is a gap power hitter who can hit for 15-20 HR on top of his 14-16 triples per year. And you don't think Fenway is going to help that triple total?

 

There's disagreeing about Crawford's position in the line up, and then there's just completely hating on him and putting up ******** stats and calling his SLG misleading because he doesn't hit for HR power, but for gap power and has the wheels to make those gap shots triples.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why does everyone want to screw around with the lineup?

 

Leave it alone, they are FINALLY starting to come together as an offensive unit. Crawford will not hit 8th all season long and I suspect when they do move him up, its not going to be any higher than 6.

 

Stop saying "we didnt pay this guy 142 million to hit sixth", because you are right. We didnt pay him, you didnt, I didnt.....the Redsox did. They foolishly paid him a ton of money that a traditional slugger would make. There is nothing wrong with him hitting 6th.

 

It's just good conversation. I'm pumped to see Crawford in the 6 hole, I think he's going to do really well there, and sure he may ultimately end up there. And if he does, I'm completely fine with it. I just think it may hinder his ability to use his speed, and I think that's his biggest asset. But I very well may be overstating the amount that it actually does hurt him. We will see!

[redsoxrules]

Yeah. He failed twice. Guess when. Rookie season and 2008 when he was hurt. How is his SLG due to triples misleading?? Is slugging only good because of HR? WTF are you smoking? Does a triple clear the bases?? I'm sorry, you're right. His slugging should be around .250 because he doesn't hit any HR and triples are meaningless. That's about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard anyone say in my life.

 

As far as him not slugging .450 this year, how about the fact that he's slugged .510 in May this year? You just going to completely ignore that? I don't give a s*** if he reaches the .450 mark or not this year. All I care about is how he does from today forward. If he slugs .450 from today on, and because of a slow April, his stats show him at .420 or something, whatever who gives a s***. Crawford is a gap power hitter who can hit for 15-20 HR on top of his 14-16 triples per year. And you don't think Fenway is going to help that triple total?

 

There's disagreeing about Crawford's position in the line up, and then there's just completely hating on him and putting up ******** stats and calling his SLG misleading because he doesn't hit for HR power, but for gap power and has the wheels to make those gap shots triples.

 

 

I'll ask again ...

 

witch of these 2 is most likely to happen?

 

Agon hitting a HR or Crawford hitting a gap shot AND have someone scoring from first at the same time

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

A-Gon batting third please.

[redsoxrules]

 

 

While you're telling the future, how do the Bruins do this postseason?

"

 

Their winning the cup

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'll ask again ...

 

witch of these 2 is most likely to happen?

 

Agon hitting a HR or Crawford hitting a gap shot AND have someone scoring from first at the same time

 

Depends on where you hit Crawford. If Pedroia or Ellsbury is on 1st, Crawford is more likely to hit a gap shot that scores one of them. If Crawford is hitting behind the slow guys, then Gonzo is more likely to hit a bomb.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

[a700hitter]

The Crawford Sucks argument is just ridiculous. The guy has been exceptional for 7 seasons and he is in his prime. LOL!!! Some people love misery.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The Crawford Sucks argument is just ridiculous. The guy has been exceptional for 7 seasons and he is in his prime. LOL!!! Some people love misery.

 

Mother F&$*ing This.

[redsoxrules]

Depends on where you hit Crawford. If Pedroia or Ellsbury is on 1st, Crawford is more likely to hit a gap shot that scores one of them. If Crawford is hitting behind the slow guys, then Gonzo is more likely to hit a bomb.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

First off , Pedroia is not that fast , second , how many times is it going to happen that Crawford will come to the plate with a runner on 1st ?

 

again, its greater of a chance for Agon to hit a bomb than for Crawford to have that scenario happen .

 

If the Red sox are down 1 run in the 9th and there's a runner on first I'd rather have Agon at the plate than Crawford.

 

If you dont agree with that you're delusional

[SoxFanForsyth]

Pedroia is definitely fast enough to score from 1st on a gapper.

 

I disagree. Crawford pelts gaps when he's not ice cold.

 

Plain and simple, you don't like Crawford, and there's no reason to argue with you because you don't think logically or rationally.

[Dojji]

I'll ask again ...

 

witch of these 2 is most likely to happen?

 

Agon hitting a HR or Crawford hitting a gap shot AND have someone scoring from first at the same time

 

Poor comparison. No one is saying that Crawford is the kind of power hitter Adgon is. Adgon is one of the best hitters in the league, by no means is Crawford comparable as a hitter, nor is he intended to be.

[SoxFanForsyth]

What it boils down to is that there are only a couple of players on our team that can score from 1st on balls in the gap. Anyone can score when Gonzo hits a bomb. There are 2 players on our team who can score from 1st on a wall ball double. The wall ball double is a signature shot from Pedroia. Why not go Ellsbury - Crawford - Pedroia? You put Ellsbury in front of Crawford, he won't slow Craw down. You put Pedroia behind the two, he's got gap power and HR power, and both of those hitters can score from 1st on a gapper. Then you hit your Gonzo - Youk - Ortiz. If, like you say, Pedroia isn't fast enough to score from 1st on a gapper, then it doesn't matter because Gonzo, Youk, and Ortiz all can hit bombs.