5/23 @ Indians

[ORS]

For the heck of it, I just went through and read this whole thread and I have to say, while Bard wasn't great and Francona may have pulled Buck a early (in hindsight, probably a batter or two early)... I'm not sure you can hang it on that. With the lineup of hitters the Red Sox have, 2 runs nursing a one run lead the way your starter threw the ball tonight is what killed the game for you guys. Honestly, the Sox really looked like a team playing to let the rain end the game early and take a one run early ending game to the clubhouse.

 

Here is something that should be painfully obvious this year... no team can afford to leave the Guardians in the game late. Especially not at home this year.

 

As far as pulling the starter... I, as a tribe fan, was upset when they pulled him because it looked like the Indian hitters finally had him timed. As it turned out, I was ok with the resulting replacement. BTW, Bard wasn't bad. The pitches the Guardians hit were not bad pitches at all. The first run was on a absolute handcuffed base hit, and Asdrubal is hitting everyone like they are throwing beach balls not baseballs lately, That's not Bard's fault.

 

Take it how you will.

 

 

P.S., Hey suns... Shut up and go home, you look like a doofus.

The Sox had a good number of very loud outs against Masterson, so the "looked like a team playing for the rain to end the game" bit doesn't stick, IMO. They had good at-bats, but you can't beat luck, and the Guardians have been the luckiest team in baseball to date. Don't take this the wrong way, but baseball is a funny game. Sometimes the liners are right at people, sometimes pitcher's pitches get hit, etc. You have to have a lot of that on your side to have such a strong record in 1-run games.

 

I hang this loss on Francona. It made no sense to pull Buchholz, however, assuming that 90+ pitches was his limit due to the 127 in the start before, the pitcher to relieve him was Hill. It turns Santana around to his weaker side, but more importantly faces Brantley with a strong platoon advantage. He f***ed up again. No surprise there.

[a700hitter]

Papelbon 2010 is reborn in 2011 Bard.

When Papelbon was at Bard's stage of his career, he was a total shutdown reliever. It surprises me that fans are so willing to let the FO take a pass on a guy like Papelbon who, with the exception of 2010, has been consistently excellent. He's only 30 with plenty of life left in his arm and he is showing the ability to make necessary adjustments by integrating more secondary pitches. I like Bard's power arm, but I still only trust Papelbon to lock down the wins.

[a700hitter]

The Sox had a good number of very loud outs against Masterson, so the "looked like a team playing for the rain to end the game" bit doesn't stick, IMO. They had good at-bats, but you can't beat luck, and the Guardians have been the luckiest team in baseball to date. Don't take this the wrong way, but baseball is a funny game. Sometimes the liners are right at people, sometimes pitcher's pitches get hit, etc. You have to have a lot of that on your side to have such a strong record in 1-run games.

 

I hang this loss on Francona. It made no sense to pull Buchholz, however, assuming that 90+ pitches was his limit due to the 127 in the start before, the pitcher to relieve him was Hill. It turns Santana around to his weaker side, but more importantly faces Brantley with a strong platoon advantage. He f***ed up again. No surprise there.

A 1 run game against a hot team is not the time to adhere to this pitch count theory. They should have discussed it in the dugout and agreed to limit his pitches in his next start. That being said, they should have been able to rely on Bard. It's not like they replaced him with the likes of Atchinson. He went to one of his horses, but the horse spit the bit.

[ORS]

A 1 run game against a hot team is not the time to adhere to this pitch count theory. They should have discussed it in the dugout and agreed to limit his pitches in his next start. That being said' date=' they should have been able to rely on Bard. It's not like they replaced him with the likes of Atchinson. He went to one of his horses, but the horse spit the bit.[/quote']

But, as we all know, Bard has hit a rough spot recently. I expect the manager to have his finger on the pulse of the team and not put it on auto pilot using prescribed roles.

[Dipre]

Bard looks like he has absolutely no idea where his fastball is going.

[a700hitter]

But' date=' as we all know, Bard has hit a rough spot recently. I expect the manager to have his finger on the pulse of the team and not put it on auto pilot using prescribed roles.[/quote']True. I have never been a proponent of managing by a pre-set formula. It still bothers me when managers automatically go to their closers in the 9th even if the starter has been cruising and is still strong. It is a no-lose move for the manager, because closers are paid to close. Going to the closer virtually eliminates second guessing. Now that we have a premier 8th inning guy, he will not be criticized much for making the move. I agree with you. Buch was in control and still strong. You stick with him, but Terry will not get a lot of criticism for managing according to formula.

[Dipre]

Tito should be criticized in this instance, not because he took Bucholz out, but because he's overusing an already ineffective Bard. He has options, so why not use them?

[Station 13]

When Papelbon was at Bard's stage of his career' date=' he was a total shutdown reliever. It surprises me that fans are so willing to let the FO take a pass on a guy like Papelbon who, with the exception of 2010, has been consistently excellent. He's only 30 with plenty of life left in his arm and he is showing the ability to make necessary adjustments by integrating more secondary pitches. I like Bard's power arm, but I still only trust Papelbon to lock down the wins.[/quote']

 

Papelbon has better control. He started to get wild in 2009 when he had nothing but the fastball, that bled into 2010. This year he found his control and have his splitter working.

 

I wouldn't get too worry on Bard's yet. His peripheral are fine: 2.6 BB/9 8.8K/9. The guys he faced been swinging the bat.

 

Bard is just 25, still got plenty to learn. Maybe he needs a break for a week, pitch only inning without base runners. Hell he had 46 inherited runners last year and maybe a dozen already this year.

[a700hitter]

Bard looks like he has absolutely no idea where his fastball is going.

That was the challenge that he had to overcome to get to this level. It looked like he had harnessed his stuff in 2009, but he has slid back a bit.

[redsoxrules]

this should be on a 10 game winning streak .

 

sucks to lose 2 games in the 8th inning .

 

Bard has been s***** of late but also a bit unlucky . it seems every time someone gets wood on his pitches its in play with no outs . He'll dominate by the time the season is done

 

oh and Crawford SUCKS

 

547 OPS and were almost in June and just 2 stolen f***ing bases .

 

crawford is going to turn out to be a bust and Theo should have signed Werth

[a700hitter]

this should be on a 10 game winning streak .

 

sucks to lose 2 games in the 8th inning .

 

Bard has been s***** of late but also a bit unlucky . it seems every time someone gets wood on his pitches its in play with no outs . He'll dominate by the time the season is done

 

oh and Crawford SUCKS

 

547 OPS and were almost in June and just 2 stolen f***ing bases .

 

crawford is going to turn out to be a bust and Theo should have signed Werth

He had a terrible April, but so did almost the whole team. May has been getting much better, and he has 6 steals not 2.

[redsoxrules]

He had a terrible April' date=' but so did almost the whole team. May has been getting much better, and he has 6 steals not 2.[/quote']

 

My bad .... Phew . 683 OPS in May and 6 SB , thats much better

[a700hitter]

My bad .... Phew . 683 OPS in May and 6 SB ' date=' thats much better [/quote']He's getting better. BTW Pedroia is underperforming pretty drastically. Are you worried about him? Is he a bust?

[redsoxrules]

He's getting better. BTW Pedroia is underperforming pretty drastically. Are you worried about him? Is he a bust?

 

Pedroia has been on the team since 2007 and has had good numbers every year .

 

he's comming off foot injury and the jury is still out weather or not it has affected his play . we'll find out by the end of the season.

 

Fenway park is not suited for Crawford's swing , it will kill the power that he had .

 

Werth would be mashing balls on the green monster all year long , just like Beltre was doing last year .

 

Now obviously Crawford will improve but we wont see the numbers that he put up last year .

[a700hitter]

Pedroia has been on the team since 2007 and has had good numbers every year .

 

he's comming off foot injury and the jury is still out weather or not it has affected his play . we'll find out by the end of the season.

 

Fenway park is not suited for Crawford's swing , it will kill the power that he had .

 

Werth would be mashing balls on the green monster all year long , just like Beltre was doing last year .

 

Now obviously Crawford will improve but we wont see the numbers that he put up last year .

I'm not worrying about a guy with Crawford's skills, work ethic and resume who is entering his prime.

[a700hitter]

Fenway park is not suited for Crawford's swing , it will kill the power that he had .

 

He has more HRs at Fenway than at Yankee Stadium, and his OPS at Fenway is only a few points below what it was at the old Yankee Stadium which had much more favorable dimensions for a lefty than Fenway.

[Dipre]

.....who may also be suffering the effects of several years playing on turf, a home ballpark that supresses whatever little power he has, and further exploitation of his main weakness (inability to hit lefties).

 

It's easy to downplay just how severely platoon issues can impact a player's usefulness, but a .354 OPS vs lefties is Rey Ordonez territory.

 

I'll keep saying it was a stupid contract until he proves me wrong.

[a700hitter]

.....who may also be suffering the effects of several years playing on turf, a home ballpark that supresses whatever little power he has, and further exploitation of his main weakness (inability to hit lefties).

 

It's easy to downplay just how severely platoon issues can impact a player's usefulness, but a .354 OPS vs lefties is Rey Ordonez territory.

 

I'll keep saying it was a stupid contract until he proves me wrong.

He has less than 60 ABs against lefties this season and almost 1700 career ABs against lefties. Do you think this might be too small of a sample size to make a Rey Ordonez comparison?

[Dipre]

He has less than 60 ABs against lefties this season and almost 1700 career ABs against lefties. Do you think this might be too small of a sample size to make a Rey Ordonez comparison?

 

Crawford career OPS vs lefties: .684

 

Rey Ordonez career OPS: .600.

 

Nope. Specially with the way he's trending. I'd love to get him a couple sessions with Teddy Long. If he fixed Granderson, he could fix Crawford, but in the meantime, he is, (and he always has been) s*** against lefties.

[italstallianion]

Post #500 WOOOOO!!!!!!

[redsoxrules]

Post #500 WOOOOO!!!!!!

 

it was 499,

 

 

I have # 500

[a700hitter]

Crawford career OPS vs lefties: .684

 

Rey Ordonez career OPS: .600.

 

Nope. Specially with the way he's trending. I'd love to get him a couple sessions with Teddy Long. If he fixed Granderson, he could fix Crawford, but in the meantime, he is, (and he always has been) s*** against lefties.

Is this trend based on less than 60 ABs. His 2009 and 2010 OPS against lefties were higher than his career average, so one could argue that the trend is going in the right direction.

[Dipre]

Before this year, his career OPS was .696, and he had an .837 OPS in 2007, .641 OPS in 2008, .704 OPS in 2009, .696 in 2010, the trend is "he sucks against lefties", with the only significant difference between his career worst in OPS against lefties coming from BABIP variance. The outlier is the 2007 season, in which he actually hit against them, but featured a .381 BABIP.

 

There are no straws to grasp from, he is awful against LHP.

[a700hitter]

Before this year, his career OPS was .696, and he had an .837 OPS in 2007, .641 OPS in 2008, .704 OPS in 2009, .696 in 2010, the trend is "he sucks against lefties", with the only significant difference between his career worst in OPS against lefties coming from BABIP variance. The outlier is the 2007 season, in which he actually hit against them, but featured a .381 BABIP.

 

There are no straws to grasp from, he is awful against LHP.

The difference in AGon's career splits vs. righties and lefties is 149 pts while Crawford's differential is only 127 points. Who has the platoon issue? Also, AGon had a suckass .675 OPS against lefties in 2008. They are both great offensive players. AGon is a power guy and Crawford is a speed guy, but both of them are great offensive players.

[redsoxrules]

The difference in AGon's career splits vs. righties and lefties is 149 pts while Crawford's differential is only 127 points. Who has the platoon issue? Also' date=' AGon had a suckass .675 OPS against lefties in 2008. They are both great offensive players. AGon is a power guy and Crawford is a speed guy, but both of them are great offensive players.[/quote']

 

LOL

 

 

Agon's career against LHP is 779 OPS wich is 6 points higher than Crawford's career OPS overall

[a700hitter]

LOL

 

 

Agon's career against LHP is 779 OPS wich is 6 points higher than Crawford's career OPS overall

And that can be accounted for by the fact that AGon is clearly the superior power hitter. AGon is the better offensive player, and he makes more money to prove it. Who is better is not the issue. The issue is whether Crawford (a great offensive player in his own right) has platoon issues. Facts are facts and the stats show that over his career Crawford's lefty-righty OPS split has a smaller differential than AGon's differential.

[Dipre]

The difference in AGon's career splits vs. righties and lefties is 149 pts while Crawford's differential is only 127 points. Who has the platoon issue? Also' date=' AGon had a suckass .675 OPS against lefties in 2008. They are both great offensive players. AGon is a power guy and Crawford is a speed guy, but both of them are great offensive players.[/quote']

 

There is no comparison:

 

Gonzales' career OPS vs lefties is a full 100 points higher than Crawford's, and unlike Crawford, he has exhibited a positive trend in production against lefties the past couple of years, not to mention that his 2008, like Crawford's 2007, was an outlier, and he was hitting in Petco Park while Crawford hit in Tropicana. There is absolutely no way to compare the two, specially since Gonzales' OPS against lefties is higher than the overall league average OPS while Crawford hits like Ramiro Pena against them.

 

For my point's sake, Gonzales' OPS against lefties this season of .731 is closer to Crawford's career OPS of .781 entering this season than Crawford's overall OPS is to the very maligned JD Drew.

 

Crawford's speed has value, sure, but because of his On-base limitations and platoon issues, he is not to be mentioned in the same breath as Gonzales as offensive players.

[Dipre]

And that can be accounted for by the fact that AGon is clearly the superior power hitter. AGon is the better offensive player' date=' and he makes more money to prove it. Who is better is not the issue. The issue is whether Crawford (a great offensive player in his own right) has platoon issues. Facts are facts and the stats show that over his career Crawford's lefty-righty OPS split has a smaller differential than AGon's differential.[/quote']

 

This, folks, is what we call cherry picking.

 

The differential is bigger, but even if it is, Gonzales' OPS against lefties is still better than Crawford's overall OPS.

 

.779 is above league average overal.

 

.696 is Alex Cora.

[a700hitter]

There is no comparison:

 

Gonzales' career OPS vs lefties is a full 100 points higher than Crawford's, and unlike Crawford, he has exhibited a positive trend in production against lefties the past couple of years, not to mention that his 2008, like Crawford's 2007, was an outlier, and he was hitting in Petco Park while Crawford hit in Tropicana. There is absolutely no way to compare the two, specially since Gonzales' OPS against lefties is higher than the overall league average OPS while Crawford hits like Ramiro Pena against them.

 

For my point's sake, Gonzales' OPS against lefties this season of .731 is closer to Crawford's career OPS of .781 entering this season than Crawford's overall OPS is to the very maligned JD Drew.

 

Crawford's speed has value, sure, but because of his On-base limitations and platoon issues, he is not to be mentioned in the same breath as Gonzales as offensive players.

They are different types of hitters. The fact is that there is more of a drop off in OPS for AGon against lefties than for Crawford. That's just a fact. You are not comparing apples to apples. Clearly, 2010 was the outlier for AGon when his left OPS split exceeded his righty OPS. This season the differential is about 300 points.

[Dipre]

They are different types of hitters. The fact is that there is more of a drop off in OPS for AGon against lefties than for Crawford. That's just a fact. You are not comparing apples to apples. Clearly' date=' 2010 was the outlier for AGon when his left OPS split exceeded his righty OPS. This season the differential is about 300 points.[/quote']

 

That takes nothing away from the fact that Gonzales is an above average offensive performer vs lefties while Crawford is a AAAA hitter against them.

 

This is comparing apples to apples:

 

Gonzales OPS vs lefties: .779

 

Crawford OPS vs lefties: .696