Dice K Placed on DL

[WellBefore2004]

I'm pretty sure we've seen the last of him.

[Dojji]

Pity. He really could have been great.

 

He wasn't the same after he mysteriously lost 5 MPH off his fastball halfway through 2007.

[a700hitter]

I never thought much of him from the first time I saw him at his first Spring Training. He was what Bobby V said he would be-- a back of the rotation starter. Way too much money was spent to fill that role, especially when we had the perfect #5 man who continues to take the ball every 5th day year in and year out-- Bronson Arroyo.

[Dojji]

Bronson Arroyo would never have become what he is in Cincinatti, here in Boston. Was not going to happen. Besides, he was gone by the time it was time to look for a guy to fill that particular hole.

 

Our alternative at the time was either Paps to the rotation, or signing Barry Zito. I think on the whole we did better with Daisuke than we did with the other two plans. We're in trouble regardless that year with the Schilling injury if Lester and Kason Gabbard of all people don't come in and have a good summer.

 

I will always wonder what Gabbard might have turned into if he doesn't go down to Texas and ruin his arm... ahh well, he wasn't exactly an irreplaceable talent. Still, lefties with decent K and GB numbers aren't that easy to come by, and the guy he was traded for...!

[a700hitter]

Bronson Arroyo would never have become what he is in Cincinatti, here in Boston. Was not going to happen. Besides, he was gone by the time it was time to look for a guy to fill that particular hole.

 

He didn't have to be as good as he has become in Cincinnati. He just needed to be consistent and take the ball every 5th day. Those are two things that Dice K never did.

 

BTW: the ballpark in Cincinnati is a total bandbox, so don't underestimate what he has achieved. One weekend Coco Crisp hit 2 or 3 HRs there that were way back in the seats.

[Dojji]

You're overselling it with that "never." Daisuke pitched 200 innings in 07 after all. Afterwards his shoulder was a bloody hamburger mess, which is the real problem with him.

 

I'm not denying that we probably should have held onto Arroyo. Especially since Wily Mo Pena turned out to be a whole lot of not much. But it's water under the bridge, and speculating about how he'd have done here is almost as productive as wondering if Gabbard doesn't get hurt and lose all semblance of command if he stays in Boston.

[a700hitter]

You're overselling it with that "never." Daisuke pitched 200 innings in 07 after all. Afterwards his shoulder was a bloody hamburger mess, which is the real problem with him.

 

I'm not denying that we probably should have held onto Arroyo. Especially since Wily Mo Pena turned out to be a whole lot of not much. But it's water under the bridge, and speculating about how he'd have done here is almost as productive as wondering if Gabbard doesn't get hurt and lose all semblance of command if he stays in Boston.

I'm not talking about consistency over one year, but multiple years. He has been under contract for 5 years and he only took the ball every 5th day in one year. That is consistency -- consistent unreliability.

[Palodios]

I'm not talking about consistency over one year' date=' but multiple years. He has been under contract for 5 years and he only took the ball every 5th day in one year. That is consistency -- consistent unreliability.[/quote']

 

I have no problem bashing Dice-k for the problems that he has had. But in 2007, 2008, and 2010 he started 32, 29 and 25 games. Discount 2010 if you want, but 29 games is pretty much a full season.

[a700hitter]

I have no problem bashing Dice-k for the problems that he has had. But in 2007' date=' 2008, and 2010 he started 32, 29 and 25 games. Discount 2010 if you want, but 29 games is pretty much a full season.[/quote']But not worth $103 million.

[Palodios]

But not worth $103 million.

 

Did you quote the wrong post?

[redsoxrules]

But not worth $103 million.

 

Carl Crawford is not worth the contract he got but I dont hear you bitching about that

[Cocos Disciples]

Sox should absolutely be on the lookout for a starter at the deadline or earlier. Wakefield cannot be in the rotation for the rest of the year.

[a700hitter]

Carl Crawford is not worth the contract he got but I dont hear you bitching about that

I didn't bitch about Dice K one year into the contract either. Plus, I have seen Crawford play for 7 years, and he tortured the Red Sox, so I think he will be worth the contract.

[italstallianion]

Damn Dice-K.

[Jwmann2]

Remember all of the hype Dice-K had about five years ago? Wowzers. Even though he is still a starting pitcher, he hasn't effected the game the way we thought he would.

[WellBefore2004]

Sox should absolutely be on the lookout for a starter at the deadline or earlier. Wakefield cannot be in the rotation for the rest of the year.

 

Like I stated in another thread, what would the feeling be with bringing in a Brett Myers or a Derek Lowe?

[Will617]

But not worth $103 million.

 

The marketing and the revenue the Red Sox got from Japan made this deal definitely worth the $103 million, whatever Daisuke's performances were. He was a decent back-of-the-rotation starter, and $10 million per year is not that far off market value for those types of pitchers. I'd like to see the Sox try out Doubront in that role for a couple games before making a decision on a deadline pitcher.

[Will617]

Like I stated in another thread' date=' what would the feeling be with bringing in a Brett Myers or a Derek Lowe?[/quote']

 

Would much rather have Lowe than Myers, but Lowe costs a lot more I think (contract-wise).

[a700hitter]

The marketing and the revenue the Red Sox got from Japan made this deal definitely worth the $103 million' date=' whatever Daisuke's performances were. He was a decent back-of-the-rotation starter, and $10 million per year is not that far off market value for those types of pitchers. I'd like to see the Sox try out Doubront in that role for a couple games before making a decision on a deadline pitcher.[/quote']

Do you have a Japanese revenue figure from the Red Sox financial statements?

[Will617]

Do you have a Japanese revenue figure from the Red Sox financial statements?

 

I do not. However, Matsui was said to bring in about $21 million in revenue per year to the Yankees (this was, however, from Scott Boras, so take that number as you will). I remember reading something similar about Ichiro's marketing power, and I would assume that Daisuke would have provided a decent amount of marketing money for at least the first two years of his contract.

 

Edit: Found the article about revenue from Matsui/Ichiro, http://readingrunningredsox.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-can-you-buy-for-103-million.html

[a700hitter]

I do not. However, Matsui was said to bring in about $21 million in revenue per year to the Yankees (this was, however, from Scott Boras, so take that number as you will). I remember reading something similar about Ichiro's marketing power, and I would assume that Daisuke would have provided a decent amount of marketing money for at least the first two years of his contract.

 

Edit: Found the article about revenue from Matsui/Ichiro, http://readingrunningredsox.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-can-you-buy-for-103-million.html

That's right that there is no verifiable figure for revenue for Japan attributable to Dice K. Anything that anyone says in this regard has no credibility. Until there is a statement from the Sox about revenue from Japan, no one knows. If they were recouping the $102 million, I think the Sox would be crowing about it so they wouldn't look so foolish for signing this guy.

[Will617]

That's right that there is no verifiable figure for revenue for Japan attributable to Dice K. Anything that anyone says in this regard has no credibility. Until there is a statement from the Sox about revenue from Japan' date=' no one knows. If they were recouping the $102 million, I think the Sox would be crowing about it so they wouldn't look so foolish for signing this guy.[/quote']

 

No team makes those figures public. I would think that it's a stretch to say they've recouped the entire $102 million, but I feel like a decent chunk of the posting fee would (at least) have been earned back in marketing. Just because there is no official data about this, does not mean that there is no data that could be used to give a ballpark estimate.

[snydersminipretzels]

No team makes those figures public. I would think that it's a stretch to say they've recouped the entire $102 million' date=' but I feel like a decent chunk of the posting fee would (at least) have been earned back in marketing. Just because there is no official data about this, does not mean that there is no data that could be used to give a ballpark estimate.[/quote']

 

The marketing and the revenue the Red Sox got from Japan made this deal definitely worth the $103 million, whatever Daisuke's performances were. He was a decent back-of-the-rotation starter, and $10 million per year is not that far off market value for those types of pitchers. I'd like to see the Sox try out Doubront in that role for a couple games before making a decision on a deadline pitcher.

 

You just made this up completely.

[Will617]

You just made this up completely.

 

That's news to me.

[snydersminipretzels]

That's news to me.

 

First post you said they definitely recouped the $103 million. Then you were challenged on the source of that claim. You said you didn't have the figures, and then said that it would be a stretch to say they recouped the "$102 million."

 

Which one is it?

[Will617]

Just because the deal is worth the money, does not mean that they necessarily recouped the money already. The marketing presence that the Red Sox got from the deal will (I think) benefit the team in future years, even past Daisuke's contract.

I probably could've worded it better, but what I mean to say is: Contract was a good move, they may not have made back all the money yet but they probably made back a good chunk of it, Daisuke was not terribly overpaid going by his salary alone.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Can't believe how the Boston media ate that Gyroball ******** up

[a700hitter]

Just because the deal is worth the money, does not mean that they necessarily recouped the money already. The marketing presence that the Red Sox got from the deal will (I think) benefit the team in future years, even past Daisuke's contract.

I probably could've worded it better, but what I mean to say is: Contract was a good move, they may not have made back all the money yet but they probably made back a good chunk of it, Daisuke was not terribly overpaid going by his salary alone.

I fail to see how they will benefit from a marketing presence in Japan at all, never mind beyond Dice K's contract. The posting fee purchased no exclusive or shared right to market in Japan. The $52 million posting fee purchased a limited window to exclusively negotiate with Dice K. The other $52 million purchased Dice K's services. None of the investment purchased any right to market in Japan. The Red Sox have no more rights to market in Japan than any other team. They paid $104 million for essentially nothing.

[SoxSport]

I fail to see how they will benefit from a marketing presence in Japan at all' date=' never mind beyond Dice K's contract. The posting fee purchased no exclusive or shared right to market in Japan. The $52 million posting fee purchased a limited window to exclusively negotiate with Dice K. The other $52 million purchased Dice K's services. None of the investment purchased any right to market in Japan. The Red Sox have no more rights to market in Japan than any other team. They paid $104 million for essentially nothing.[/quote']

 

Just one big tax write-off.

[a700hitter]

Just one big tax write-off.

That's about the size of it. Theo got a boner for the Japanese "national treasure" (his words not mine) and all it turned out to be was a big loss to write off.