Wake REALLY that bad of a deal?

[Emmz]

He said he doesn't deserve "any record". Just came across as kind of harsh' date=' as if Wake is some bum. He doesn't have to break any records or anything, but the guy has been a workhorse his entire career and did a lot for this team.[/quote']

 

Yeah but he really doesn't deserve any record if he doesn't earn it himself.

[Wasatch]

All-time sox wins?

 

I'm all for beating that douchebag but like redsoxrules said it will take too long.

 

That's the one, thanks.

[Wasatch]

How many more wins will it take to beat Clemens?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

It would take 13 more. Clemens is at 192 and Wake is at 179.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

He said he doesn't deserve "any record". Just came across as kind of harsh' date=' [b']as if Wake is some bum[/b]. He doesn't have to break any records or anything, but the guy has been a workhorse his entire career and did a lot for this team.

 

Exactly. He definitely does deserve it but he probably won't get it. a700 nust have a good reason though and I'm anxious to know why he said that.

[lasitter]

I'm pretty sure was got what he has without being a juicer.

[a700hitter]

May I ask why a700?

He deserves to have records for appearances, innings and other things that would reflect his durability. However, for him to have the distinction of the Winning-est pitcher in Red Sox history is completely misleading and it misrepresents his contribution to the Red Sox. The record for wins for an original franchise like the Red Sox conveys a level of excellence. Wakefield has not been an excellent pitcher. He has been consistently mediocre throughout his career and very inconsistent from game to game (and even within games) throughout his career. He has never, in his long career, been the Red Sox stopper or ace. He has never been even the second best pitcher on any Sox team, except for an improbable run during 1995. There may have been a year or two where he had the best or second best stats on the team, but he was never the top guy or number 2 guy. In a number of years he barely made the starting rotation.

 

In my four and a half decades, I can think of many many pitchers who have had more excellent Red Sox careers. Obviously, if he gets the record, it's his achievement, but the Sox should make no extraordinary effort to keep him on the team in the hope that he gets the record, because in my opinion, he's not good enough to hold that record.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Clemen's record won't stand. But let's be honest, just like Emmz said, having an individual record as any type of a priority is beyond stupid and is atrocious for the team.

 

And by the way. Jon Lester is only 127 W's away from the record, he's going to be a lifer, and he's 27. He had 61 wins coming into this season, meaning if he throws until he's 38 (very realistic), he would need to average 11 wins per season over the next 12 seasons to break the record. You know Lester is good for 15 wins per season, and at an average of 15 wins per season, he will have the record in 9 years, or when he is 36.

 

I'd personally rather see Lester get the record than Wakefield. I would be shocked to see Wakefield get the record, and I'd be even more shocked to see Lester miss it.

[a700hitter]

Clemen's record won't stand. But let's be honest, just like Emmz said, having an individual record as any type of a priority is beyond stupid and is atrocious for the team.

 

And by the way. Jon Lester is only 127 W's away from the record, he's going to be a lifer, and he's 27. He had 61 wins coming into this season, meaning if he throws until he's 38 (very realistic), he would need to average 11 wins per season over the next 12 seasons to break the record. You know Lester is good for 15 wins per season, and at an average of 15 wins per season, he will have the record in 9 years, or when he is 36.

 

I'd personally rather see Lester get the record than Wakefield. I would be shocked to see Wakefield get the record, and I'd be even more shocked to see Lester miss it.

There were a lot of great young Red Sox pitchers in my 45 years, and none of them broke the record. Clemens managed a tie.

[SoxFanForsyth]

There were a lot of great young Red Sox pitchers in my 45 years' date=' and none of them broke the record. Clemens managed a tie.[/quote']

 

Yeah but Clemens obviously wasn't a lifer. If I knew that in 12 years you and I would both still be posting on Talksox, I'd make a wager on this.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but Clemens obviously wasn't a lifer. If I knew that in 12 years you and I would both still be posting on Talksox' date=' I'd make a wager on this.[/quote']A lot of things can happen.

[Wasatch]

It would take 13 more. Clemens is at 192 and Wake is at 179.

 

That's too many, for Wake it could take at least 2 years. Wake had a great career, time to move on.

[Dojji]

For all the squalling about Wakes, he's right back where he usually is. Kicking around the bottom of the rotation with an ERA in the mid 4's.

 

I'm just saying.

[boston22407]

better then Dick-k ass

[redsoxrules]

The thing with Wake is , He'll throw in a few gems like last night and then get shelled for 3-4 starts

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Yeah he's inconsistent but you can make that argument for a lot of pitchers on the Sox.

[Palodios]

There were a lot of great young Red Sox pitchers in my 45 years' date=' and none of them broke the record. Clemens managed a tie.[/quote']

 

How many of those Red Sox pitchers had the highest winning percentage in baseball history, with this kind of offense behind him for atleast 3-4 more years? Lester has shown no indication that he wants to go to another team, and has been one of the most durable pitchers in baseball. Barring the return of his cancer or some fluke injuries/health issues, I think he has a legitimate shot at it.

 

The thing about Lester is... he's one of those players that is so good, no one talks about him. Because being great is simply expected of him, and he meets those expectations. He's been my favorite player on this team since 2008, and at TS, there have been little to no discussion about him whatsoever.

[italstallianion]

In addition doesn't the ball not carry as well in the earlier months. We should have started Wakefield early knowing that once the ball carries more in the summer that he'd be useless.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

In addition doesn't the ball not carry as well in the earlier months. We should have started Wakefield early knowing that once the ball carries more in the summer that he'd be useless.

 

Summer is the best time for the knuckler. Humidity helps it move better. But then again he pitches great in domes too...

[MANNYHOF24]

The thing with Wake is that he is going to pitch 2 solid games and 1 stinker every 3 times out. I think that is extremely valuable as a 5th starter/spot starter. As long as Wake stays healthy, he is a great bargain to have on this team. Let's not remember in his last really healthy stretch of baseball he was an all star pitcher in 2009 only 2 years ago.

[MANNYHOF24]

Summer is the best time for the knuckler. Humidity helps it move better. But then again he pitches great in domes too...

 

I would argue that Wake seems to pitch better in cooler drier conditions such as last night, maybe that's just me though.

[italstallianion]

I thought that summer was worse because when the ball gets hit, it carries a lot further. It may move more, but it'll also move more going towards the OF bleachers.

[SCM33]

I thought that summer was worse because when the ball gets hit' date=' it carries a lot further. It may move more, but it'll also move more going towards the OF bleachers.[/quote']

 

Im sitting laughing at everyones responses concerning the knuckleball, not because anyone is wrong or right.....but because people are really debating the success of a pitch that is unpredictable.

 

There may be trends here and there, humidity might make it dance more because of resistance, cold temperatures might knock down flyballs. Windy conditions might make it dance more.Warm weather might lead to struggles even if it is humid, a time when the knuckleball is supposed to dance.

 

If any of those natural causes had anything to do with his success, why does he pitch so well inside during "perfect" artificial circumstances inside of domes?

 

The answer, is that there is no answer. Every pitch he throws is unpredictable. Every start he makes is unpredicatable.

 

Wakefield has mastered the pitch, he can control the pitch somewhat, but it is impossible to predict his success since nobody knows what the pitch is going to do or where its going to go.

 

I suspect any trends are probably accidental because of all the factors that can contribute to success or failure with a knuckleball.

[Palodios]

Im sitting laughing at everyones responses concerning the knuckleball' date=' not because anyone is wrong or right.....but because people are really debating the success of a pitch that is unpredictable.[/quote']

 

I was looking at the first chapter of the Knucklebook recently. It mentions different things that affect how it knuckles-- most of which being unpredictable air pressure. The speed of the pitch is a big factor, and in theory, the best speed is around 72 mph. From what I've seen on the gun lately, Wakefield's knuckleball is closer to the mid 60s, although that isn't necessarily bad.

 

http://chapters.ivanrdee.com/15/666/1566636612ch1.pdf

[SCM33]

I was looking at the first chapter of the Knucklebook recently. It mentions different things that affect how it knuckles-- most of which being unpredictable air pressure. The speed of the pitch is a big factor, and in theory, the best speed is around 72 mph. From what I've seen on the gun lately, Wakefield's knuckleball is closer to the mid 60s, although that isn't necessarily bad.

 

http://chapters.ivanrdee.com/15/666/1566636612ch1.pdf

 

 

This is why I thought it was so funny.

 

In the end, everything he does is unpredictable. I am assuming air pressure inside of a dome is minimal, as it is climate controlled.

 

When was that book written? I am assuming in the earlier 80's before the effect of a dome has on the pitch, otherwise it would explain a possible reason that in Wakefield case, he tends to do well in a controlled artificial setting.

 

EDIT: Looked it up, written in 2006. Does it have any explanations about domes?

[SoxSport]

wait 'till the next start.