2011 Yankee Gamethread

[ORS]

You mean he's lost something on the fastball since the injury in 2008?

Yeah, he doesn't look much different than he has since then, which is not a pitcher I'd call "dominant".

[jacksonianmarch]

Yesterday, I listened to the game when Joba got into the game. But Sterling was saying Chamberlain was hitting 96 regularly throughout the game cast

[ORS]

Yesterday' date=' I listened to the game when Joba got into the game. But Sterling was saying Chamberlain was hitting 96 regularly throughout the game cast[/quote']

This information is available for free. You can look it up, or you can trust John Sterling as a source of credible information. Your call.

[yankees228]

Yeah' date=' he doesn't look much different than he has since then, which is not a pitcher I'd call "dominant".[/quote']

 

Completely agreed. Just wanted to clarified if you meant since the injury, or this year as opposed to last year. He showed flashes last year, but nothing consistent.

[ORS]

Completely agreed. Just wanted to clarified if you meant since the injury' date=' or this year as opposed to last year. He showed flashes last year, but nothing consistent.[/quote']

This, combined with his conditioning, is why I'm not sold.

[Meh]

Nova was what he was last year. Lights out first time through good to average second time through, and bad third time through.

[jacksonianmarch]

This information is available for free. You can look it up' date=' or you can trust John Sterling as a source of credible information. Your call.[/quote']

 

He was going off the stadium gun. Regardless, I just saw it, and yeah, he's between 92 and 95

[yankees228]

This' date=' combined with his conditioning, is why I'm not sold.[/quote']

 

My only question would be ... not sold on what? Him as an effective reliever, or him as an elite reliever?

[ORS]

Nova was what he was last year. Lights out first time through good to average second time through' date=' and bad third time through.[/quote']

This is not a good sign moving forward. After seeing him a couple of times, that first time through is against hitters who are more familiar/comfortable against him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Or it could mean Nova will eventually improve on it. The fact is, he has top notch stuff and good location. He's a rook, which is why I had him pegged as a 4.50ERA guy

[ORS]

My only question would be ... not sold on what? Him as an effective reliever' date=' or him as an elite reliever?[/quote']

Well, I'm responding to Jacko, so which do you think it is?

 

Effective is what he already is, but I don't see the "shortening the game to 6 innings" when he's in the equation.

[Meh]

This is not a good sign moving forward. After seeing him a couple of times' date=' that first time through is against hitters who are more familiar/comfortable against him.[/quote']

 

Its just he tries to fire it up the deeper he gets into the game. He overthrew like 10. Pitches in an inning. He needs to settle down and relax. Well see what he does

[yankees228]

This is not a good sign moving forward. After seeing him a couple of times' date=' that first time through is against hitters who are more familiar/comfortable against him.[/quote']

 

His ability to pitch well the first time through the order leads me to believe that the talent is there. If that's the case, with proper coaching, I think the other issues can be corrected. It could be as simple as changing his strategy ... possibly not showing everything the first time through (a la Curt Schilling). However, if he's getting fatigued, then it's a much larger issue.

[yankees228]

Well, I'm responding to Jacko, so which do you think it is?

 

Effective is what he already is, but I don't see the "shortening the game to 6 innings" when he's in the equation.

 

Alright, then that's reasonable. If elite is consistently maintaining a 2.5 ERA (or so), I have my reservations as well.

[jacksonianmarch]

Its just he tries to fire it up the deeper he gets into the game. He overthrew like 10. Pitches in an inning. He needs to settle down and relax. Well see what he does

 

We're talking like he's a 10 yr vet here. The kid is a rookie. He's gonna have his ups and downs. He'll have his days where he lights up a lineup through 2 or 3 turns and there will be games where he doesnt reach the third time around. The most important thing is, he isnt a gimmick getting by on limited deception or a guy getting by on impeccable location for a short while (like Darrell Rasner did in his short stint replacing Wang in 2008 before imploding). He's a guy with great stuff AND good location. He will learn a lot this season

[ORS]

Or it could mean Nova will eventually improve on it. The fact is' date=' he has top notch stuff and good location. He's a rook, which is why I had him pegged as a 4.50ERA guy[/quote']

He's not demonstrably different than Masterson when he came up, and Masterson had the same issue when the lineup flipped, yet I don't recall your review of Masterson being so effusive. Maybe I'm recalling it differently than it happened, but it feels right. I can say this with great confidence, I hope the Yankee management thinks this way and stops seeking other options. I'd prefer they went to bat with this guy than some of the potential trade targets or their other younger arms in AAA.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nova is a 4.50ERA guy. Compared to Garcia, he's much better and will outperform him come season's end. I do have a feeling, though, that Banuelos may be the #5 guy before the yr ends. He's just too good to keep down if Garcia's arm falls off

[ORS]

His ability to pitch well the first time through the order leads me to believe that the talent is there. If that's the case' date=' with proper coaching, I think the other issues can be corrected. It could be as simple as changing his strategy ... possibly not showing everything the first time through (a la Curt Schilling). However, if he's getting fatigued, then it's a much larger issue.[/quote']

I don't think it's fatigue at all. I think the hitters get a look at him and do better in subsequent ABs. With the unbalanced schedule, this will start to carry over into the beginning of games.

[jacksonianmarch]

Also Masterson showed extreme splits and a lack of a third pitch when he came up. Nova was pretty consistent through the minors in his splits and has 3 solid pitches

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think it's fatigue at all. I think the hitters get a look at him and do better in subsequent ABs. With the unbalanced schedule' date=' this will start to carry over into the beginning of games.[/quote']

 

The one thing Nova really lacked in the minors was the ability to put players away. He's got the stuff to do so, but he's always pitched to contact. That will need to change as he ages. He throws mid 90s with sink with a plus curve and change. It will come

[ORS]

Also Masterson showed extreme splits and a lack of a third pitch when he came up. Nova was pretty consistent through the minors in his splits and has 3 solid pitches

I figured this would happen. This doesn't change the fact that they both experienced the same issue getting deep into games.

[ORS]

The one thing Nova really lacked in the minors was the ability to put players away. He's got the stuff to do so' date=' but he's always pitched to contact. That will need to change as he ages. He throws mid 90s with sink with a plus curve and change. It will come[/quote']

So he couldn't put players away in the minors, but he's just all of sudden going to pick that up against the best hitters in the game? Really?

 

Just think how you would respond if a Sox fan proposed this.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

http://images.clipartof.com/small/44176-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Cheerleader-Sparkette-Dog-Character-Waving-Pom-Poms.jpg

 

:lol:

[jacksonianmarch]

So he couldn't put players away in the minors, but he's just all of sudden going to pick that up against the best hitters in the game? Really?

 

Just think how you would respond if a Sox fan proposed this.

 

It's easier to change the way he approaches hitters than it is for him to suddenly improve his stuff. As built right now, he's a sinkerballer with the capability to provide average performance over a good amount of innings. If he can improve his ability to put hitters away, he can be something more

[ORS]

We'll see. If you are expecting a lot of league average innings from him, I think you are in for some disappointment.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am expecting a 4.50ERA at the end of the yr. I will be disappointed if he is significantly above that

[ORS]

Moving target. Before it was a good amount of league average innings, now it's just a 4.50 ERA.

 

The 2010 AL ERA was 4.14, and a good amount of innings for a SP should, at a minimum, be 150.

 

This is what I disagreed to.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have never been a moving target. I have predicted Nova at around a 4.50ERA ever since Pettitte retired and it became clear he was going be in the rotation. And if Nova stays healthy, he'll easily surpass 150IP

[Divinity]

4.50 ERA sounds pretty accurate, which is the same ERA he posted in the majors last year over 42 innings.

I think he'll have around 150 IP total.

[ORS]

I have never been a moving target. I have predicted Nova at around a 4.50ERA ever since Pettitte retired and it became clear he was going be in the rotation. And if Nova stays healthy' date=' he'll easily surpass 150IP[/quote']

Maybe, but you look like a moving target because your vocabulary sucks. Without looking much different than last year, where he had a 4.40 ERA, Chamberlain is going to be "untouchable". Nova will provide "average" production, which is not the number value you state. This isn't the same league as it was a couple of years ago. Run production is on a downward trend, so a 4.50 is no longer average.

 

It seems our argument is one of terminology. You abuse adjectives, which expresses what you are trying to say differently than what you mean. Use the proper adjective, and I think we have no disagreement.