Sox Add Crawford and Gonzalez, Still Might Not Make Playoffs

[example1]

Also, I brought this up earlier but nobody took note:

 

I've seen a lot of comparisons between Carl Crawford and Roberto Clemente and decided to look into it further. The similarities are pretty stunning thru age 28 (where Crawford is now):

 

[table] PLAYER | G | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS + | HR | RBI | 3B | 2B | TB | TOT WAR | WAR (162g) |

Crawford | 1235 | 5383 | .296 | .337 | .444 | .781 | 107 | 104 | 592 | 105 | 215 | 2217 | 26.1 | 3.7

Clemente | 1213 | 5017 | .303 | .337 | .439 | .776 | 109 | 92 | 570 | 75 | 214 | 2062 | 24.2 | 3.6 [/table]

 

Clemente did everything well and started his career very early like Crawford did. Clemente had a bit more HR power while Crawford is considerably faster.

 

So, how did Clemente do during the prime of his career? Is it reasonable to hope that Crawford can keep that career trajectory going? Let's hope so...

 

[table] YEARS | G | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ | HR | RBI |

1962-1970 (total) | 1282 | 5452 | .329 | .378 | .503 | .881 | 147 | 152 | 739 |

1962-1970 (162g avg) | 162 | 687 | .329 | .378 | .503 | .881 | 147 | 20 | 94 | [/table]

 

During those years Clemente averaged 6.2 WAR per season, 7.1 WAR per 162 g. Players who hit 6 WAR consistently are tremendous players.

 

He's one of a few comparables, but Clemente is the comparison I like the most.

 

Anybody old enough to remember Clemente? I'm not, but he seems like a guy who truly had 5 tools, but none of them were exceptional (except perhaps his fielding). Crawford's speed is probably better, but Clemente's arm was exceptional.

 

At his current rate, Crawford will be pushing 2700 hits and maybe 700 SBs when he's done with the Red Sox. That would put him 11th on the all time SB list, passing Joe Morgan at 689. 8 of the top 11 are in the Hall of Fame and if he continues to produce he will probably have enough other numbers to get him in too.

[SCM33]

Also, I brought this up earlier but nobody took note:

 

 

 

Anybody old enough to remember Clemente? I'm not, but he seems like a guy who truly had 5 tools, but none of them were exceptional (except perhaps his fielding). Crawford's speed is probably better, but Clemente's arm was exceptional.

 

At his current rate, Crawford will be pushing 2700 hits and maybe 700 SBs when he's done with the Red Sox. That would put him 11th on the all time SB list, passing Joe Morgan at 689. 8 of the top 11 are in the Hall of Fame and if he continues to produce he will probably have enough other numbers to get him in too.

 

Nice chart example. Thank you for putting in the effort to do that. Looks like some of us have underestimated how good Crawford really is.

[Will617]

Also, I brought this up earlier but nobody took note:

 

 

 

Anybody old enough to remember Clemente? I'm not, but he seems like a guy who truly had 5 tools, but none of them were exceptional (except perhaps his fielding). Crawford's speed is probably better, but Clemente's arm was exceptional.

 

At his current rate, Crawford will be pushing 2700 hits and maybe 700 SBs when he's done with the Red Sox. That would put him 11th on the all time SB list, passing Joe Morgan at 689. 8 of the top 11 are in the Hall of Fame and if he continues to produce he will probably have enough other numbers to get him in too.

 

I'm not old enough to remember Roberto Clemente, but I have heard of him non-stop at Pirates games. It seems to be all that the announcers are capable of talking about. Him and Honus Wagner.

Of course, the Pirates also made a big fuss about their offseason acquisition of Akinori Iwamura, so...but I guess they're at least right to hype Clemente. Given their roster.

[PineRider]

Despite all the lame-ass squabbling going on here, I'm in a great mood about the Sox. I don't care what Jacko thinks (or pretends to think to console himself). They added two of the most dangerous offensive weapons in baseball to a team that already had offensive weapons like Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis and Ortiz. They have two SPs in their mid 20's who are just hitting their prime but who already have among the best stuff in the league. They have 3 veteran SPs who all have big game experience and who have, at one time or another, achieved on the biggest stage. They aren't reclaimation projects--they are highly paid pitchers who have shown the ability to succeed. Nobody would be shocked if any of those 3 had an excellent year.

 

There's a lot to be optimistic about.

 

This.

[Ravenous916]

This.

 

YES

[LooseyGoosey]

On the upside ...

 

While the Sox are obtaining solid players & improving their team ...

 

The Rays & Yanks are not showing signs of serious improvement yet ...

[Dojji]

If Daisuke's shoulder and Beckett's back behave this year this could be a fearsome team.

 

The only thing that's got me truly worried about Daisuke is the fact that his k/9 is steadily dropping each year. He's got to put more hitters away on strikes if he wants to be competitive, especially with the rate at which he walks people.

[Palodios]

Dice-k's issues with Farrell have been well-documented. Young will do wonders for him.

[TheKilo]

Jenks for 2/12 is the best reliever contract of the offseason. Score another one for Theo.

[Dipre]

Jenks for 2/12 is the best reliever contract of the offseason. Score another one for Theo.

 

I said in the Hot Stove thread that signing something as volatile as a mid-tier reliever to a three-year contract is a really dumb way to construct a baseball team, because of the likelihood of an ineffective reliever becoming a sunk cost. Got killed for it, because "if the Sox weren't aggressive with money and years, they'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel" well look now, not even 24 hours later they sign arguably the best right-handed reliever in the open market for less years and comparable money than middling relievers like Jesse Crain and Matt Guerrier.

 

This FO knows what it's doing. Just sayin'.

[BSN07]

I said in the Hot Stove thread that signing something as volatile as a mid-tier reliever to a three-year contract is a really dumb way to construct a baseball team, because of the likelihood of an ineffective reliever becoming a sunk cost. Got killed for it, because "if the Sox weren't aggressive with money and years, they'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel" well look now, not even 24 hours later they sign arguably the best right-handed reliever in the open market for less years and comparable money than middling relievers like Jesse Crain and Matt Guerrier.

 

This FO knows what it's doing. Just sayin'.

 

Preach on brotha

[example1]

Thread necromancy aside, the Sox really need Crawford to step up. It is getting relatively little focus here (perhaps because we all LIKE Crawford and want him to do well) but looking at his numbers this year there is really nothing to like here yet. He's been a huge disappointment on a team that could really use an explosive offensive weapon when their pitching is faltering. Clearly he doesn't deserve all of the blame, but he has a 0.2 WAR this year. He's literally been like having a replacement player in LF all year.

 

I really want him to do well and was very optimistic about this signing. I'm hopeful the numbers will be much better next year too.

 

I just hope he doesn't have eye problems or something that will remain for the next 5-6 years of his contract.

 

vs. RHP: .281/.307/.442/.749

vs. LHP: .184/.242/.303/.545

 

1st Half: .243/.275/.384/.659

2nd Half: .256/.298/.412/.710

 

Home: .256/.289/.386/.675

Away: .243/.281/.406/.687

 

RISP: .228/.264/.368/.631

Men On: .232/.269/.365/.634

 

High Leverage situations (108 AB ): .222/.248/.315/.563

 

The best things that I can see are that he bats decently when he's hitting 7th in the order: .284/.336/.517/.853

 

and he has done well in day games (35): .307/.340/.521/.861

 

Can anyone offer a ray of hope?

[iortiz]

Thread necromancy aside' date=' the Sox really need Crawford to step up. It is getting relatively little focus here (perhaps because we all LIKE Crawford and want him to do well) but looking at his numbers this year there is really nothing to like here yet. He's been a huge disappointment on a team that could really use an explosive offensive weapon when their pitching is faltering. Clearly he doesn't deserve all of the blame, but he has a -[i']-0.4 WAR (thus far)[/i] this year. He's literally been like having a replacement player in LF all year.

 

I really want him to do well and was very optimistic about this signing. I'm hopeful the numbers will be much better next year too.

 

I just hope he doesn't have eye problems or something that will remain for the next 5-6 years of his contract.

 

vs. RHP: .281/.307/.442/.749

vs. LHP: .184/.242/.303/.545

 

1st Half: .243/.275/.384/.659

2nd Half: .256/.298/.412/.710

 

Home: .256/.289/.386/.675

Away: .243/.281/.406/.687

 

RISP: .228/.264/.368/.631

Men On: .232/.269/.365/.634

 

High Leverage situations (108 AB ): .222/.248/.315/.563

 

The best things that I can see are that he bats decently when he's hitting 7th in the order: .284/.336/.517/.853

 

and he has done well in day games (35): .307/.340/.521/.861

 

Can anyone offer a ray of hope?

 

Fixed.

 

This was supposed to be one of his best years in Boston since he is plenty healthy and still young, has his contract, his numbers pointed that, but it is far to be one.

 

Hope he puts his s*** together, but iMO I'm not sure about him anymore. We'll see.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol at Jenks being the best contract of the offseason

[SoxSport]

I've said before Ellsbury's break out has marginalized Crawford--good year or bad.

 

If Theo knew Ells was going to have this kind of year, he would have never signed Crawford.

 

He was looking for Crawford to have the kind of year Ellsbury is having. Surprise.