Theo's record letting players walk

[yeszir]

http://www.deweyshouse.com/archives/2010/11/24/letting-major-free-agents-walk-bostons-track-record/

 

Thought this was a pretty interesting visualization of theo's track record letting players walk. I also thought this was interesting:

 

Here’s a funny thought: if Lowe wasn’t used as a reliever from 1998 through 2001, he probably would have had a legitimate shot at the Hall of Fame. Crazy, but true.

 

Thoughts?

[italstallianion]

The only problem I have with this is that it doesn't mention the draft picks that these FA's got the Red Sox organization. For example, we drafted Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie with the picks for Orlando Cabrera, and Craig Hansen and Michael Bowden with the picks from Lowe, and Clay Buchholz and Johnathon Egan with the picks from Pedro. And don't forget Daniel Bard and Kris Johnson for Johnny Damon.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lowe had a 4.5 and 5.4 ERA in his final years in Boston and then went to an NL team, really no comparison to pitching in the AL East. Also fangraphs puts a ton of stock into questionable defensive components, overall Cabrera was a very mediocre hitter in LAA. Bay sucked it up his first year, Pedro was worth something for one year (again pitching in the NL) and then useless. Damon had some good years but overall he wasn't really fit to play the field and would have taken away bats from Ortiz at DH if he remained here.

 

Really looking at that list there is no one that I really wish we held onto with the exception of maybe Cabrera, and even then I'm fairly indifferent.

 

EDIT: Really throw in the draft picks and I really couldn't give a f*** about any of these guys. Pedro for Buchholz, Lowe for Hansen/Bowden, Cabrera for Ellsbury/Lowrie (huge swing in our favor), Damon for Bard

[Palodios]

It seems more often that holding onto players bites them in the ass. Beckett and Lowell, for example. But that doesn't mean I think letting Vmart go was a good decision.

[italstallianion]

Lowe had a 4.5 and 5.4 ERA in his final years in Boston and then went to an NL team, really no comparison to pitching in the AL East. Also fangraphs puts a ton of stock into questionable defensive components, overall Cabrera was a very mediocre hitter in LAA. Bay sucked it up his first year, Pedro was worth something for one year (again pitching in the NL) and then useless. Damon had some good years but overall he wasn't really fit to play the field and would have taken away bats from Ortiz at DH if he remained here.

 

Really looking at that list there is no one that I really wish we held onto with the exception of maybe Cabrera, and even then I'm fairly indifferent.

EDIT: Really throw in the draft picks and I really couldn't give a f*** about any of these guys. Pedro for Buchholz, Lowe for Hansen/Bowden, Cabrera for Ellsbury/Lowrie (huge swing in our favor), Damon for Bard

 

 

 

And in addition, the main (and perhaps only) reason why letting Cabrera go looks bad is because of how the replacement players did in that timeframe, and that's clearly hindsight that can't be used to fairly judge the decision to let Cabrera go at the time the decision was made. I think it was a reasonable expectation that some of the replacement SS's could perform up to a reasonable level, and just because they didn't, does not mean that Theo made a mistake by letting Cabrera go.

[a700hitter]

From a business standpoint, they usually make the right decision. Also, we are judging these contracts in their totality after the fact. However, I still wonder whether we would have won back to back championships if we had kept Derek Lowe and a very effective Pedro (All Star in 2005) for one more season. The White Sox were no powerhouse. It was embarrassing to role out Matt "cement head" Clement to start game 1 of the Playoffs.

[italstallianion]

Who knows, but I think it's more likely that we would have NOT won the title in 2007 than the likelihood that we would have won the title in 2005.

[ORS]

The White Sox were no powerhouse? They lost 1 game in the postseason that year. They had the best record in baseball. And they had the best rotation in baseball. Is this another one of those "buzz" factor moments? They were a very good club, and I'm skeptical replacing one SP makes the difference.

[a700hitter]

The White Sox were no powerhouse? They lost 1 game in the postseason that year. They had the best record in baseball. And they had the best rotation in baseball. Is this another one of those "buzz" factor moments? They were a very good club' date=' and I'm skeptical replacing one SP makes the difference.[/quote']Nice attempt at trolling, but I'm not biting. You got no buzz.

[ORS]

It's not trolling. It's confronting your current inanity with some of your past inanity to prove the point that....sometimes you say inane things.

[a700hitter]

It's not trolling. It's confronting your current inanity with some of your past inanity to prove the point that....sometimes you say inane things.

More trolling. Still not biting.

[ORS]

Nonsense, despite my tone, my point was a valid one that, should you fail to address it, apparently pokes a good hole in your previous assertion. I see you'd rather quit and blame it on me though. Not surprising, this is a common tactic.

[a700hitter]

Nonsense' date=' despite my tone, my point was a valid one that, should you fail to address it, apparently pokes a good hole in your previous assertion. I see you'd rather quit and blame it on me though. Not surprising, this is a common tactic.[/quote']I'd address it if your weren't such a snarky ass, but you are a snarky ass, so carry on thinking you are so smart. You're not, but I don't care what you think. You must really be bored. Isn't there some home improvement project to take up your time instead of wasting my time?

[a700hitter]

Who knows' date=' but I think it's more likely that we would have NOT won the title in 2007 than the likelihood that we would have won the title in 2005.[/quote']It certainly would have changes the dynamic of the next few seasons, and you might be right that keeping Pedro could have cost the 2007 title. I still wonder what would have happened in 2005.

[example1]

From a business standpoint' date=' they usually make the right decision. Also, we are judging these contracts in their totality after the fact. However, I still wonder whether we would have won back to back championships if we had kept Derek Lowe and a very effective Pedro (All Star in 2005) for [u']one more season[/u].

 

I bet if they could have signed all of those players on rolling one-year deals they would have, don't you? Pedro and Lowe weren't going to settle for anything reasonable and I still don't blame the Sox for letting go of either. Hell, the 2005 team was already old and beset with injuries, Pedro signed for another few years would have sucked for this team.

 

It's one thing to have an injury plagued season like 2010, which had a lot of promise and was derailed pretty early. It is an entirely different thing to be cheering for a dinosaur of a team that also suffers injuries and which has to sit and wait for bad contracts to expire before doing anything to improve the club.

[a700hitter]

I bet if they could have signed all of those players on rolling one-year deals they would have, don't you? Pedro and Lowe weren't going to settle for anything reasonable and I still don't blame the Sox for letting go of either. Hell, the 2005 team was already old and beset with injuries, Pedro signed for another few years would have sucked for this team.

 

It's one thing to have an injury plagued season like 2010, which had a lot of promise and was derailed pretty early. It is an entirely different thing to be cheering for a dinosaur of a team that also suffers injuries and which has to sit and wait for bad contracts to expire before doing anything to improve the club.

I understand that. See my prior post responding to Ital.

[Spudboy]

I'd address it if your weren't such a snarky ass' date=' but you are a snarky ass, so carry on thinking you are so smart. You're not, but I don't care what you think. You must really be bored. Isn't there some home improvement project to take up your time instead of wasting my time?[/quote']

 

:lol:

[Emmz]

Nonsense' date=' despite my tone, my point was a valid one that, should you fail to address it, apparently pokes a good hole in your previous assertion. I see you'd rather quit and blame it on me though. Not surprising, this is a common tactic.[/quote']

 

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww144/pakkit/boxxy-trolling.jpg

[italstallianion]

Wow Emmz, how were you able to put the writing over your photo?

[Emmz]

I am Boxxy you see.

[italstallianion]

Too much eyeliner though.

[Emmz]

wait, no

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/hammond84/boxxy.png

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww144/pakkit/boxxy-trolling.jpg

 

I remember watching this video.

[Emmz]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Boxxy

[example1]

Emmz, I'm so absolutely confused... I went to that site and came back knowing less about my place in the universe, my reason for being, my ability to interpret human behavior, and I'm not sure if I can taste food anymore. Why did you do that to me? Why? Was that person you? Were you speaking English? I feel more and more like Kennesaw Mountain Landis's old dead body with each passing day.

 

Also, a700, I think this team would have been in a lot of trouble if they had signed Pedro to numerous years. They knew his injuries were looming when they let him go.

 

Like you said, most of the decisions they make make sense from a business perspective. Usually, they make sense from a baseball perspective too.

[a700hitter]

Emmz, I'm so absolutely confused... I went to that site and came back knowing less about my place in the universe, my reason for being, my ability to interpret human behavior, and I'm not sure if I can taste food anymore. Why did you do that to me? Why? Was that person you? Were you speaking English? I feel more and more like Kennesaw Mountain Landis's old dead body with each passing day.

 

Also, a700, I think this team would have been in a lot of trouble if they had signed Pedro to numerous years. They knew his injuries were looming when they let him go.

 

Like you said, most of the decisions they make make sense from a business perspective. Usually, they make sense from a baseball perspective too.

That's because baseball is the business. I still think if we had Pedro and Lowe in 2005 the Sox would have won back to back titles. Our staff was atrocious without them, but the record-breaking offense still managed to win a lot of games. In the post season, you need some pitching. The only ace we had in 2005 (Schilling) didn't get a playoff start. Would keeping those guys in 2005 have prevented the 2007 Championship? Yes, it might have.

[Emmz]

Eh, I don't expect anyone but J_E, Dipre, and maybe diony or something to get the humor of that site. And no, that is not me, I am not Boxxy, you see.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Eh' date=' I don't expect anyone but J_E, Dipre, and maybe diony or something to get the humor of that site.[/quote']

 

And that doesn't make you worry about yourself?

[Palodios]

There is a reason why I avoid 4chan.

[example1]

That's because baseball is the business. I still think if we had Pedro and Lowe in 2005 the Sox would have won back to back titles. Our staff was atrocious without them' date=' but the record-breaking offense still managed to win a lot of games. In the post season, you need some pitching. The only ace we had in 2005 (Schilling) didn't get a playoff start. Would keeping those guys in 2005 have prevented the 2007 Championship? Yes, it might have.[/quote']

 

The way I remember it, Lowe was pretty bad in 2004. He was a bit better in 2005 but there was no reason, none, to resign him to a multi-year deal. To compete with the offer Lowe got from the Dodgers, the Sox would have had to offer something like the 4 year, $36m they gave him.

 

Pedro was really good in 2005, but he signed a four year, $53m contract with the Mets.

 

The Sox were smart not to sign them. If they passed on a WS in 2005 for one in 2007 then so be it.