The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[BSN07]

That has not been corroborated by any other news outlet. I would highly doubt that the sox would forgo offering $8 million extra for VMart' date=' but would be willing to go to $20 million per year for Crawford[/quote']

 

It wasn't the extra 8M they balked at. It was the length of the deal. Every story I have read with sources from the Red Sox have stated they don't believe he is going to be a viable catcher after 2 more years. I read one story where someone from the FO called him the next Mike Lieberthal.

 

Besides I haven't heard of any offers for Crawford yet. 4/80M seems like a good offer. Maybe a 5th year option or maybe guarantee it. I'm not sold on paying Crawford a ton of money to do what Ellsbury does now for much less. But if a Crawford signing at 4 or 5/80-100M was coupled by a trade of a package surrounded by Ellsbury to AZ for Upton, I would be extremely pleased

 

Having Ellsbury and Crawford on the same team seems a bit redundant to me. But I'm sure they could manage to utilize both of them if they had to. I still think Crawford might be weary of Boston since he doesn't want to be a LOH.

[BSN07]

I'm hoping Theo and company get us a nice Thanksgiving day surprise like they have in the past

[a700hitter]

Tito went on WEEI a few days ago and was very complimentary of Crawford calling him a "Game Changer"..

This is what I call him. I'm tired of people stealing my material.

[a700hitter]

What about signing A.J. Pierzynski?

[BSN07]

What about signing A.J. Pierzynski?

 

Meh. Maybe. But I think there is enough LHH in the lineup. I'm not a huge fan of AJ. Besides i don't think he's that big of an improvement behind the plate as well.

[jacksonianmarch]

It wasn't the extra 8M they balked at. It was the length of the deal. Every story I have read with sources from the Red Sox have stated they don't believe he is going to be a viable catcher after 2 more years. I read one story where someone from the FO called him the next Mike Lieberthal.

 

Besides I haven't heard of any offers for Crawford yet. 4/80M seems like a good offer. Maybe a 5th year option or maybe guarantee it. I'm not sold on paying Crawford a ton of money to do what Ellsbury does now for much less. But if a Crawford signing at 4 or 5/80-100M was coupled by a trade of a package surrounded by Ellsbury to AZ for Upton, I would be extremely pleased

 

Having Ellsbury and Crawford on the same team seems a bit redundant to me. But I'm sure they could manage to utilize both of them if they had to. I still think Crawford might be weary of Boston since he doesn't want to be a LOH.

 

If the years were the problem, then why did the sox offer 4yrs $42 million?

[SoxSport]

A RHd hitter like Werth makes more sense than Crawford, who is too much like Ellsbury and Kalish--unless they trade one of the latter two. Aside from that, I hope they have a RHd DH in the works to platoon with Ortiz. Maybe Cameron or Ordonez.

[a700hitter]

Meh. Maybe. But I think there is enough LHH in the lineup. I'm not a huge fan of AJ. Besides i don't think he's that big of an improvement behind the plate as well.

He could platoon with Salty. He's better than Tek at this point. Plus, if Salty goes down in flames, which I expect that he will, AJ can handle the full time job.

[BSN07]

If the years were the problem' date=' then why did the sox offer 4yrs $42 million?[/quote']

 

I thought it was reported they offered just 3? I admit, I could have missed that. It still comes down to him being able to catch. If they thought he could catch for 4 years they probably would have bumped up the AAV. But they don't feel that way and offered a longer deal at less AAV since his value will drop if he has to DH.

[a700hitter]

They need to get Crawford. Period.

[BSN07]

He could platoon with Salty. He's better than Tek at this point. Plus' date=' if Salty goes down in flames, which I expect that he will, AJ can handle the full time job.[/quote']

 

I don't know why you are so quick to right players of that have legit tools and haven't even really had a chance to prove themselves :dunno: He's had what 24 AB's for the Red Sox? I'm not saying he's the next big thing, but I am far from writing him off.

 

AJ full time worries me a lot. Plus he's an *******, but then again he would be our ******* so we probably would tolerate his s*** lol.

 

I'd like to see what LAD does with Martin. There are rumors he may get non tendered or could be had in a trade.

[BSN07]

They need to get Crawford. Period.

 

It would be nice. He's not the be all end all player though. I am interested in the short 4-5 year deal that was mentioned earlier. But so far I haven't seen it anywhere else. So not sure if it's a true story or not.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Crawford would be a huge grab and I hope that's the direction they are going in. Combine with a 1 year guy like Lee and then explore trading Ellsbury+ for someone like Upton and I think we could see a major change for the better in the future of the offense without having to reupp older players like Martinez/Beltre

[jacksonianmarch]

It would be nice. He's not the be all end all player though. I am interested in the short 4-5 year deal that was mentioned earlier. But so far I haven't seen it anywhere else. So not sure if it's a true story or not.

 

I doubt he settles for a 4-5 yr deal, though. The market for elite players in their late 20s is at least a 6 yr deal (see Holliday and Teixiera).

[BSN07]

I doubt he settles for a 4-5 yr deal' date=' though. The market for elite players in their late 20s is at least a 6 yr deal (see Holliday and Teixiera).[/quote']Well if someone goes 6 years at 18M per that's only 108M total. If I was him I would be interested in taking 4/80 and hope to get another contract at age 33. Or take 5/100M and bank on being able to get more then 6M or so hitting the market at age 34.

[Keeper]

Having Ellsbury and Crawford on the same team seems a bit redundant to me.

 

Agreed. If they get Crawford, they had better trade Ellsbury and others for Upton. Just lost V-Mart. Probably going to lose Beltre. They needed another big bat last season, IMO. Now, they may need three more big bats.

 

If it were up to me, I would target Werth and Upton and then kick the tires on Lee or Konerko or Berkman. And I think I would get Olivo (.821 career OPS against lefties) to platoon with Salty.

[Rdsxmbnt]

My ideal offseason would be to sign Crawford. Trade Bard/Ellsbury/Prospect for Upton. Then sign say Downs and/or Soriano for the bullpen. Sign Lee to a 1yr deal at 1B. Trade Scutaro, insert Salty at C, look into Russell Martin if he gets non-tendered

 

1. Crawford OF

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Upton OF

4. Youkillis 3B

5. Ortiz DH

6. Lee 1B

7. Drew OF

8. Lowrie SS

9. Salty/Martin C

 

Then next season we still have a lot of money freed up at 1B/DH/RF to use on say Gonzalez while possibly using Rizzo/Kalish to fill other holes cheaply.

[mvp 78]

No RuMart please.

[BSN07]

My ideal offseason would be to sign Crawford. Trade Bard/Ellsbury/Prospect for Upton. Then sign say Downs and/or Soriano for the bullpen. Sign Lee to a 1yr deal at 1B. Trade Scutaro, insert Salty at C, look into Russell Martin if he gets non-tendered

 

1. Crawford OF

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Upton OF

4. Youkillis 3B

5. Ortiz DH

6. Lee 1B

7. Drew OF

8. Lowrie SS

9. Salty/Martin C

 

Then next season we still have a lot of money freed up at 1B/DH/RF to use on say Gonzalez while possibly using Rizzo/Kalish to fill other holes cheaply.

 

Bard is one of those guys I'd really rather they not trade. Especially with Papelbon likely leaving town next off season. I'd rather they give up Kelly. Or even trade Papelbon and swin those prospects AZ's way. But if it comes down to it and that's what it takes to get Upton, I won't be totally upset. I wonder if they could swin a couple prospects for Soria? Or they could just sign Mo for 2 years LOL

[a700hitter]

I don't know why you are so quick to right players of that have legit tools and haven't even really had a chance to prove themselves :dunno: He's had what 24 AB's for the Red Sox? I'm not saying he's the next big thing, but I am far from writing him off.

 

AJ full time worries me a lot. Plus he's an *******, but then again he would be our ******* so we probably would tolerate his s*** lol.

 

I'd like to see what LAD does with Martin. There are rumors he may get non tendered or could be had in a trade.

I'm not writing off Salty, but I'm not willing to give the keys to a $175 million team to an unproven commodity. I'd rather have another full-time option and give Salty the opportunity to win the job. I am not convinced that he can hold down even the backup job, although it would be hard to be worse than Kevin Cash. Salty hasn't shown anything at the major league level, so I am skeptical.

[Palodios]

I agree with you completely.

 

I think they need to bite the bullet and send Olivo a 3/15 contract. He threw out 42% of base-stealers last year, and he hits well enough. He's no Martinez, but he's the best left out there, and if Salty or another option looks better in 2012/2013, 5 mill for a backup isn't the end of the world.

[a700hitter]

Bengie Molina is a free agent.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101123&content_id=16189264&vkey=news_bos&c_id=bos

[Palodios]

There are a lot of issues with Molina. His arm has slowed considerably, he doesn't hit very well, he's 35, and is considering retirement. Unfortunately, he just isn't what he used to be, so Olivo is the best option left on the market.

[example1]

I'm not writing off Salty' date=' but I'm not willing to give the keys to a $175 million team to an unproven commodity. I'd rather have another full-time option and give Salty the opportunity to win the job. I am not convinced that he can hold down even the backup job, although it would be hard to be worse than Kevin Cash. Salty hasn't shown anything at the major league level, so I am skeptical.[/quote']

 

I understand why you're skeptical. I think we can all agree that there's a chance Salty becomes what so many thought he would--a servicable to above-average offensive catcher. It would be foolish to bank on it without a good plan B.

 

I think this is really just a mirror of the discussion last season about Casey Kotchman. The Sox always make it seem like they would be fine with their current Plan B, but internally they must know better.

[a700hitter]

I understand why you're skeptical. I think we can all agree that there's a chance Salty becomes what so many thought he would--a servicable to above-average offensive catcher. It would be foolish to bank on it without a good plan B.

 

I think this is really just a mirror of the discussion last season about Casey Kotchman. The Sox always make it seem like they would be fine with their current Plan B, but internally they must know better.

I am hoping this situation will have the same type of outcome.

[BSN07]

I'm not writing off Salty' date=' but I'm not willing to give the keys to a $175 million team to an unproven commodity. I'd rather have another full-time option and give Salty the opportunity to win the job. I am not convinced that he can hold down even the backup job, although it would be hard to be worse than Kevin Cash. Salty hasn't shown anything at the major league level, so I am skeptical.[/quote']

 

Well yes of course I have some reservations about him as well. But it just seemed like you were giving him a snow balls chance in Hell at becoming anything. I was just saying it probably a little better then that But yes they do need to have a solid veteran back up regardless. I'm not sure I like a 3 year deal for a back up Catcher though. Catchers develop slower, and the Sox Catching prospect depths are all approaching that age the we will really start to have a good idea what they will be. I think we could be surprised by a couple of them, you never know. I would rather they get someone on a one or maybe two year deal so that they can remain flexible at the Catcher position until the COTF makes himself known .

[Dojji]

Actually I think Russel Martin would be a really good tandem catcher to bring in alongside a youngster. There's no power in that bat -- at all -- but he's athletic, has a good arm, and gets on base reasonably well. If he has to have a sub-100 OPS+, he's loaded the stats he does have in the right places -- OBP, baserunning, and defense. He works the count, gets on base, and does something meaninful once he's there, that's a potent combination even without power.

 

It's not every catcher that can lead off, but Martin has the skillset with his OBP and baserunning to fill in in the 1 hole at least as well as Scoot did last year. Throw Martin and Salty into the mix and we'd be doing fairly well for ourselves, especially with Expo and Lavarnway each maybe 2 years out. If there's a way to bring RM in inexpensively, you have to be all over it.

[GoBruins2011]

The Angels seem willing to spend on both Beltre and Crawford. Yet California as a whole is struggling. Yet the Redsox are looking at Rod Barajas. Like Felger said the Patriots have over took the Redsox good screw em.

[example1]

The Angels seem willing to spend on both Beltre and Crawford. Yet California as a whole is struggling. Yet the Redsox are looking at Rod Barajas. Like Felger said the Patriots have over took the Redsox good screw em.

 

Your dislike of the Red Sox compels you to come on a Red Sox message board?

 

I think it is funny to see people like you and Felger exposing themselves as the pink hats they are. I bet Felger et al., won't be talking s*** about the Red Sox if ratings pick up again next July. Which way is the wind blowing today?

 

I bet this team makes the playoffs next year and wouldn't be shocked if they win a WS. They have the core to do it and the Giants just won a WS and I'm pretty confident tht year in and year out the Sox are better.

[GoBruins2011]

Your dislike of the Red Sox compels you to come on a Red Sox message board?

 

I think it is funny to see people like you and Felger exposing themselves as the pink hats they are. I bet Felger et al., won't be talking s*** about the Red Sox if ratings pick up again next July. Which way is the wind blowing today?

 

I bet this team makes the playoffs next year and wouldn't be shocked if they win a WS. They have the core to do it and the Giants just won a WS and I'm pretty confident tht year in and year out the Sox are better.

 

Agree. Mike Cameron Scott Atchinson Marco Scutaro Jarad Saltalamacchia Kevin Cash Jed Lowrie and a bullpen full of scrubs except Paps and Bard makes us a team to be wreckoned with!