Yu Darvish

[Interestedobserver]

He's 24 and considered an ace in Japan. What do you think the posting fee will be this time around? He's got better stuff than Dice K.

[boston22407]

Don't want him

I don't trust japen player's after dick-k

[Palodios]

He's not coming to the Red Sox, but I do like him a ton. I heard that he wasn't interested in the mlb right now though, so I think the recent reports are probably rumors.

[Yaz Sideburn]

He's not coming to the Red Sox' date=' but I do like him a ton. I heard that he wasn't interested in the mlb right now though, so I think the recent reports are probably rumors.[/quote']

 

you're right, he's repeatedly said that he has no interest in coming to the united states. unless that changes, i don't think there's much point in discussing the possibility

[BSN07]

If he would come now, then maybe. I think it is better to get these talented Asian pitchers while they are still developing. That way there is still time to adapt them to "American" baseball. If he doesn't come over until his late 20's then pass. By that time he will be set in his ways and will have trouble adjusting like so many others IMO.

[Interestedobserver]

There has been some talk that he would be posted. What do you think would be the posting fee?

[a700hitter]

Other than Ichiro and Hideki Matsui, have any players from the Japanese league been worht the effort and investment? Two stars after all these years is not a good track record.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Other than Ichiro and Hideki Matsui' date=' have any players from the Japanese league been worht the effort and investment? Two stars after all these years is not a good track record.[/quote']

 

takashi saito?

[BSN07]

There has been some talk that he would be posted. What do you think would be the posting fee?

 

 

Hard to say. He's younger then Dice-K, and from everything I have read, he seems to be the better prospect(at time of posting). The economy is different today though. The economy for baseball is different. So someone bidding 50M seems less likely. But I'm sure Darvish's current team is picturing 50M+ because they have a better player then Dice-K in their opinions. So there is always the chance if someone doesn't pony up the big bucks, they could just pull him back.

[BSN07]

Other than Ichiro and Hideki Matsui' date=' have any players from the Japanese league been worht the effort and investment? Two stars after all these years is not a good track record.[/quote']

 

Was Kurt Suzuki or Shin-Soo Choo from a Japanese league? They're solid MLB players. But yes your point is valid. The track record isn't very good. But teams are always going to hope they get the one who does really break out. So teams will keep trying.

[Spudboy]

Was Kurt Suzuki or Shin-Soo Choo from a Japanese league? They're solid MLB players. But yes your point is valid. The track record isn't very good. But teams are always going to hope they get the one who does really break out. So teams will keep trying.

 

Suzuki is American. From Hawaii.

[BSN07]

Suzuki is American. From Hawaii.

 

My bad

[Keeper]

Other than Ichiro and Hideki Matsui' date=' have any players from the Japanese league been worht the effort and investment? Two stars after all these years is not a good track record.[/quote']

 

Dice-K, Saito, Okajima, Hiroki Kuroda, Koji Uehara, Kazuhiro Sasaki, Hisanori Takahashi, Hideo Nomo, Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Tomo Ohka, Tadahito Iguchi, Kenji Johjima, Kosuke Fukudome, Akinori Iwamura, Kazuo Matsui

 

Not all of them have been worth the investment (I'm looking at you, Fukudome and Dice-K), but they've each been effective at one point or another.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Was Kurt Suzuki or Shin-Soo Choo from a Japanese league? They're solid MLB players. But yes your point is valid. The track record isn't very good. But teams are always going to hope they get the one who does really break out. So teams will keep trying.

 

shin-soo choo is korean. whenever you see a player with a name like that, chances are they're korean (byung-hyun him, chan ho park, hee seop choi)

 

taiwanese players tend to have names like that as well (chien ming wang or our aa prospect che-hsuan lin) but it's rare that a player from taiwan makes it to the majors

[BSN07]

shin-soo choo is korean. whenever you see a player with a name like that, chances are they're korean (byung-hyun him, chan ho park, hee seop choi)

 

taiwanese players tend to have names like that as well (chien ming wang or our aa prospect che-hsuan lin) but it's rare that a player from taiwan makes it to the majors

 

I knew he was Korean. But I wasn't sure if he came straight from Korea or if he went and played in Japan first.

 

I guess we could add Colby Lewis to the list. He's had a solid season. His W-L line sucks, but 190 innings of 3.8 ERA ball while approaching 200 K's with 62 walks isn't bad. Especially considering the Rangers ballpark is a known hitters park.

[BSN07]

Major league clubs are preparing for a bidding war over Yu Darvish, the stylish kid pitcher from Japan. The Yankees, Mets, Braves, Rangers, Rays and Mariners are among the teams keeping tabs. Don't count out a run from the Tigers, either, as they have tons of money to spend.

 

Read more: Major league clubs are preparing for a bidding war over Yu Darvish, the stylish kid pitcher from Japan. The Yankees, Mets, Braves, Rangers, Rays and Mariners are among the teams keeping tabs. Don't count out a run from the Tigers, either, as they have tons of money to spend.

 

Hmm maybe it could be this off season? I think the Nats are a dark horse candidate to get him.

[example1]

Hmm maybe it could be this off season? I think the Nats are a dark horse candidate to get him.

 

What's the source? I believe it I'm just curious.

 

What I don't believe is that the list included is comprehensive of who is "keeping tabs". If the Sox aren't keeping tabs then the entire FO should be fired.

 

I can just imagine it after the bidding is complete:

 

Theo: "Yu Darvish was posted? s***, we didn't even know that he was taking bids."

Lucchino: "Yeah, we should have been keeping tabs"

Theo: "Yes, we should have kept tabs".

 

 

 

I haven't lost all faith in Japanese players being worth the posting fee.

[Palodios]

Well, they'll be keeping tabs, but based on how Dice-k's situation has been a bit of a PR nightmare, I think they'll probably bid low on Yu if it happens.

[ttighe]

You know what kills me? Red Sox fans talk so much about how the Yankees spend all sorts of money, the Red Sox spent 50 million just to talk to Daisuke. Red Sox have the most hypocritical, ignorant fan base. Now the red sox want to sign this guy? Go ahead and spend 50 million more.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You know what kills me? Red Sox fans talk so much about how the Yankees spend all sorts of money' date=' the Red Sox spent 50 million just to talk to Daisuke. Red Sox have the most hypocritical, ignorant fan base. Now the red sox want to sign this guy? Go ahead and spend 50 million more.[/quote']

 

Not a good way to start your first post. Here's your welcome..stfu.

[example1]

Well' date=' they'll be keeping tabs, but based on how Dice-k's situation has been a bit of a PR nightmare, I think they'll probably bid low on Yu if it happens.[/quote']

 

I mean this question seriously, it isn't a rhetorical one:

 

What difference in approach, scouting, statistical analysis or interviewing should the Sox have taken in the Dice-K situation?

 

As far as I could tell, the guy was heavily scouted, a national hero who wasn't hard to find, against competition that was comparable to US professional baseball. They watched him, analyzed him, etc., pretty thoroughly, I would assume.

 

This FO prides itself on having processes for just about every move they could possibly make. What would they adjust about their process, given Dice-K's mediocre (given the circumstances) performance during his contract, to avoid that problem again? Would those changes knock Yu Darvish off the radar for a similar move? I'm not so sure. They certainly aren't going to write off a huge baseball-crazy nation as a potential place to find talent, so they aren't going to scrap the process they have for Japanese player evaluation and bidding.

 

They would be foolish to let the Dice-K situation prevent them from making a splash if their assessment says the next guy is going to be an impact player. There are, and will be, tremendous talents from Japan. Yu Darvish is a stud pitcher in that league and his build is remeniscent of good pitchers here in the US. At the same time, he has been scouted time and time again and he's not a mythical unhittable pitcher--he's just very good in that league.

 

If he ends up being the guy the Sox thought Matsuzaka would be and he goes to the Yankees then, again, it would be stupid for the Sox to avoid him because of a previous PR hit.

[BSN07]

Who knows? He may be replacing Dice-K :dunno:

[jacksonianmarch]

Any team that scouts Darvish needs to take a lesson from the sox scouting of DiceK. He came as advertised. Tons of pitches, hard fastball and capable of domination. The biggest thing DiceK lacked was an ability to be coached. He always seemed very resistant to change his ways, something that has left him in the middle of the road category when it comes to starters instead of seeing him blossom into an innings eater. Darvish, by most accounts, has better stuff, but if he is as resistant in changing his ways as DiceK was, then he will be no better. The bigs are about adjustments. Even the guys with the best stuff need to make adjustments on a regular basis or they would end up getting creamed. So if Darvish is coachable and his coaches attest to that, then go out and get him. If he assumes rock star status like DiceK did, then let him go somewhere else.

 

And as an aside, Matsui had achieved rock star status in Japan and came over here and had a successful first season. But what I respected most about him, was that he adjusted his game constantly and became a solid LFer for us for awhile.

[Palodios]

 

They would be foolish to let the Dice-K situation prevent them from making a splash if their assessment says the next guy is going to be an impact player. There are, and will be, tremendous talents from Japan. Yu Darvish is a stud pitcher in that league and his build is remeniscent of good pitchers here in the US. At the same time, he has been scouted time and time again and he's not a mythical unhittable pitcher--he's just very good in that league.

 

I'm not saying they won't be in on him. The problem was that the Red Sox completely overbid on the posting fee, and they won't be doing that again. While their system has a handful of japanese translators and infrastructure in place to accommodate Darvish, unless they get him at a good price, I think that

 

1) it will be a bad PR move

2) They have five starters locked in until 2012.

3) A lot of Japan probably took Dice-k's side on his disagreements with the team, thus Darvish might not even want to play with the Red Sox.

4) The Red Sox have so much money tied into starting pitchers, and considering what a risk signing another unproven Japanese pitcher is, and the cost Yu will go for, they will probably be far more interested in going a different direction if they drop one of their five starters.

5) the Red Sox training program had no clue how to handle the transition for Dice-k, and quite frankly, I still don't think they do.

[NateGrey]

rather spend the money on proven mlb talent.

 

 

 

[BSN07]

Any team that scouts Darvish needs to take a lesson from the sox scouting of DiceK. He came as advertised. Tons of pitches, hard fastball and capable of domination. The biggest thing DiceK lacked was an ability to be coached. He always seemed very resistant to change his ways, something that has left him in the middle of the road category when it comes to starters instead of seeing him blossom into an innings eater. Darvish, by most accounts, has better stuff, but if he is as resistant in changing his ways as DiceK was, then he will be no better. The bigs are about adjustments. Even the guys with the best stuff need to make adjustments on a regular basis or they would end up getting creamed. So if Darvish is coachable and his coaches attest to that, then go out and get him. If he assumes rock star status like DiceK did, then let him go somewhere else.

 

And as an aside, Matsui had achieved rock star status in Japan and came over here and had a successful first season. But what I respected most about him, was that he adjusted his game constantly and became a solid LFer for us for awhile.

 

Overall I think you assessment of Dice-K is fair. I added earlier in the thread that I though getting Darvish at a young age was important. If he waits a few more seasons i believe he will be stuck in his ways like Dice-K. He's 24, and I believe still has time to be groomed into an MLB style AP.

[Interestedobserver]

I think the winning bid will be well below Dice K. Maybe high thirties, or lower. A lot of teams will put in low ball offers just to say they bid. I expect the Sox to be one of those teams. Of course, the nightmare for the Sox would be for this guy to be the real deal.

[example1]

I'm not saying they won't be in on him. The problem was that the Red Sox completely overbid on the posting fee, and they won't be doing that again. While their system has a handful of japanese translators and infrastructure in place to accommodate Darvish, unless they get him at a good price, I think that

 

1) it will be a bad PR move

2) They have five starters locked in until 2012.

3) A lot of Japan probably took Dice-k's side on his disagreements with the team, thus Darvish might not even want to play with the Red Sox.

4) The Red Sox have so much money tied into starting pitchers, and considering what a risk signing another unproven Japanese pitcher is, and the cost Yu will go for, they will probably be far more interested in going a different direction if they drop one of their five starters.

5) the Red Sox training program had no clue how to handle the transition for Dice-k, and quite frankly, I still don't think they do.

 

I agree that it has to be for the right price.

[example1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5705463

 

Yu is staying in Japan for another year.

[BSN07]

Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish intends to play in North America in 2012, tweets Newsday's David Lennon. Amidst speculation that Darvish might pursue a transfer to the majors next season, he chose to stay in Japan, a move Lennon says was prompted by a divorce.

 

Makes sense. Didn't want chick on the way out having claim to his new fortune. DOn't blame him for putting it off a year lol