08/23/10 - Sox Vs. Seattle.

[TedWilliams101]

I'm sorry that my post prompted you to waste so much time stating the obvious.

 

Please read my post again.

 

Please note the word "my".

 

I know, but I'd like to know why you decided on him being your MVP? I can understand saying he's your favorite, most under appreciated, table setter, etc, but MVP? I just don't think people should throw around MVP so loosely. Either a person is the single most valuable member of the team or their not. There really isn't much in between. I realize there are debates when several players had huge years, but Beltre pretty much stands alone out of the position players.

 

I know you really don't care, I just can't stand when people try to personalize what "MVP" means.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I know, but I'd like to know why you decided on him being your MVP? I can understand saying he's your favorite, most under appreciated, table setter, etc, but MVP? I just don't think people should throw around MVP so loosely. Either a person is the single most valuable member of the team or their not. There really isn't much in between. I realize there are debates when several players had huge years, but Beltre pretty much stands alone out of the position players.

 

I know you really don't care, I just can't stand when people try to personalize what "MVP" means.

 

becuase the cute little kid warms his heart. is that so wrong? what is this world coming to when a grown man can't love another grown man for no good reason?

[Dojji]

Yankees lose 3-2 against Toronto -- we pick up a game.

[TedWilliams101]

becuase the cute little kid warms his heart. is that so wrong? what is this world coming to when a grown man can't love another grown man for no good reason?

 

I don't have a problem with that! It's the misuse of terms that drives me crazy. I like Scutaro, I've already stated that. I wouldn't have a problem with anyone calling him their favorite player. However, I WOULD have a problem with someone calling him the team MVP, because he CLEARLY isn't. Again, it's a fairly absolute thing (value).

[a700hitter]

Yankees lose 3-2 against Toronto -- we pick up a game.

But Tampa will be facing Kazmir.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I hope the Rays lose too.

[Dojji]

But Tampa will be facing Kazmir.

 

We can hope for some against-you-former-team mojo to be at play perhaps?

[Yaz Sideburn]

But Tampa will be facing Kazmir.

 

it's their worst starter against the angels worst starter, anything could happen

[Youk Of The Nation]

Remember, Edwin Jackson no-hit them in the most pathetic way possible.

[Spudboy]

I know, but I'd like to know why you decided on him being your MVP? I can understand saying he's your favorite, most under appreciated, table setter, etc, but MVP? I just don't think people should throw around MVP so loosely. Either a person is the single most valuable member of the team or their not. There really isn't much in between. I realize there are debates when several players had huge years, but Beltre pretty much stands alone out of the position players.

 

I know you really don't care, I just can't stand when people try to personalize what "MVP" means.

 

So. I don't care?

 

My post was succinct. And my response to your post attempted to redirect your misinterpretation of my post.

 

Again, "my MVP".

[TedWilliams101]

So. I don't care?

 

My post was succinct. And my response to your post attempted to redirect your misinterpretation of my post.

 

Again, "my MVP".

 

lol, again, I don't think MVP is up to THAT much interpretation. Set Values arent very interpretable. If he was in the discussion it would be one thing, but an MVP isn't something that can be personalized. Just because you like something/someone doesn't make it any more valuable. It's just the language I'm hung up on.

 

If your saying "my" as in he would be your choice, then I'd counter and say you made a very poor choice. If your saying he means the most to you, well, that doesn't really have anything to do with an MVP. Then I'd ask, why does he mean the most? If it isn't out of pure performance, it would likely fall back to the "favorite" category, which I'd then suggest using instead of convoluting the term "MVP".

 

So if that doesn't make sense or you don't agree, I guess we can just agree to disagree.

 

 

SOOOOO, how about that great outing from Lackey!

[Spudboy]

lol, again, I don't think MVP is up to THAT much interpretation. Set Values arent very interpretable. If he was in the discussion it would be one thing, but an MVP isn't something that can be personalized. Just because you like something/someone doesn't make it any more valuable. It's just the language I'm hung up on.

 

If your saying "my" as in he would be your choice, then I'd counter and say you made a very poor choice. If your saying he means the most to you, well, that doesn't really have anything to do with an MVP. Then I'd ask, why does he mean the most? If it isn't out of pure performance, it would likely fall back to the "favorite" category, which I'd then suggest using instead of convoluting the term "MVP".

 

So if that doesn't make sense or you don't agree, I guess we can just agree to disagree.

 

 

SOOOOO, how about that great outing from Lackey!

 

Hahahahahahahaha!

 

OK.

[a700hitter]

If not the MVP, because he doesn't have MVP stats, Scoots could win the 10th man award. He has been in the lineup every day with a very painful debilitating condition. He was supposed to be the # 9 hitter on this team, but he has admirably filled the leadoff spot.

[Dojji]

.336 OBP in leadoff is not my definition of admirable, especially if it comes with no particular speed and only an average glove at short.

 

We could have done better..

[a700hitter]

.336 OBP in leadoff is not my definition of admirable, especially if it comes with no particular speed and only an average glove at short.

 

We could have done better..

Considering that Derek Jeter's OBP is .340, .336 is really not too bad.

[a700hitter]

Considering that Derek Jeter's OBP is .340' date=' .336 is really not too bad.[/quote']Also, B.J. Upton's OBP is .325 and Denard Span's is .337.

[example1]

I just want to take a second to acknowledge John Lackey's performance tonight. Even though he gave up 3 runs his stuff looked as good as it has in awhile. Consistent zip on his FB and lots of strikeouts without swings. When he's on he works quickly and just pounds the strikezone.

[Dojji]

Considering that Derek Jeter's OBP is .340' date=' .336 is really not too bad.[/quote']

 

No. It's not terrible. It's just not a guy I want in the 1 hole.

 

I do hope Jed Lowrie is given an honest shot to compete for the starting SS job next year. Even if you want to prefer the vet, at least let the kid audition. Scutaro is a guy who's useful in short mostly because he's okay at all aspects -- no major holes, balanced by no dominant tools and complemented by actually quite solid plate discipline. Not a lot to hate there at all. Just there aren't really too many aspects of being a SS that Lowrie isn't better than Scutaro at if he can get the playing time to get himself established -- taking nothing away from Scutaro, just people tend to dismiss Lowrie's talent because of the health thing way too much. Jed is a really impressive young SS if he can get a chance to prove it.

 

Just look at how many times Lowrie's come up in a crucial at bat and extended or started a rally. It seems to be every other game or so, and that's pretty impressive. Heck, it happened twice last night -- he started both of the rallies that led to Scutaro's 2 run singles. He's a solid offensive catalyst and a capable defender. Scutaro is more than competent, but if he can get himself regular playing time, Lowrie is more competent than Scutaro -- definitely a heck of a problem to have, especially with Navarro and Iglesias also "in the mix."

 

While Peddy's out, the decision to have Lowrie and Scoot both in the lineup is the right one, at least unless you're facing a LHP and you want to get Hall some at bats. But when Pedroia's back, probably next year, finding times and places to get Lowrie on the field is going to become important to the success of the team. He's earned an honest look next year IMHO.

[redsoxrules]

Lowrie is going to be backup next year unless someone gets injured

he cant stay healthy himself so I wouldn't rely on him on a starting job

[Palodios]

No. It's not terrible. It's just not a guy I want in the 1 hole..

 

Versus Ellsbury, who has a career OBP of .344? I can understand the speed argument, but his OBP isn't really something that is a lot worse than the rest of this team.

[Dojji]

You can't divorce the speed component from the OBP. The point of the guy in the 1 hole is to score runs, if he gets on base a bit less frequently but has the speed to score more often, that actually balances out (which is something the OBP-o-philes sometimes overlook). Ideally of course you do want the guy with the .370 OBP and the brilliant speed and 15-20 HR power as well, and while I'm at it I'd like a million dollars, a Hummer, and a lifetime's supply of bacon.

 

Lowrie is going to be backup next year unless someone gets injured

he cant stay healthy himself so I wouldn't rely on him on a starting job

 

He's been hurt once. Yes, it was a doozy, but it was one injury, of the lingering wrist variety. He's been over it for more than a year now, the issue that kept him out most of this year was a viral infection, you really can't call a guy for being injured when the problem is he's sick. And frankly he's been hitting better now than he was before he got hurt.

 

You're never going to know what you have in a guy like Jed unless you turn him loose. He *has* the ability to be an effective starting SS, he's a solid defender, and there's maybe 5 shortstops in the league who are definitely better than he is offensively even if you regress him towards the mean in a bigger sample. If he falters or sucks, you not only have Scutaro, you also have Iglesias and potentially Navarro on hand to take up the slack, but Jed is quite probably the best all around SS of the 4 right now and he needs to be getting chances to prove one way or the other whether he can translate that talent into a starting job. If for no other reason than for trade bait -- if you can prove this guy's a starting shortstop, with a bat like he's got, he immediately becomes our most fungible piece. Shortstops with .350 OBP's and gap/doubles power or better are pure gold right now, the idea that we have one that is potentially available for trade will keep a lot of GM's on the phone with Theo.

[a700hitter]

The fact is that Scutaro was counted on only to be the # 9 hitter. We were hoping that 2009 was not an aberration and that Scutaro would not return to his former utility status. He did not. He's done better than most people expected in the leadoff spot. He's also gutted it out playing a very demanding position every day with a herniated disc in his neck that has caused the muscles in his left arm to atrophy and given him problems just gripping the bat. I was not a big fan of signing him, but I do admire what he has done on the field despite that injury.

 

As for Lowrie, it will be huge progress from him if he can play the utility role next season without going on the DL. He's not going to start at SS unless Scutaro flops.

[Dojji]

Or unless he's hurt. What was that about a herniated disc?

 

Also, Scutaro is playing at or slightly below his career level. Kinda hard to say he hasn't regressed when his OBP -- probably his best feature -- dipped from .379 all the way to .336. He's always been this guy, it's just that it turns out it's adequate starting SS material as well as decent utility stuff.

 

I have nothing against Scutaro. I just think he's the safe option at a time when Theo needs to be taking a chance on a guy who could be better. Were trying to make up ground on some very good teams and we need all the help we can get.

[redsoxrules]

Beckett better not get lit up tonight against this piece of s*** offense

[a700hitter]

Or unless he's hurt. What was that about a herniated disc?

 

Also, Scutaro is playing at or slightly below his career level. Kinda hard to say he hasn't regressed when his OBP -- probably his best feature -- dipped from .379 all the way to .336. He's always been this guy, it's just that it turns out it's adequate starting SS material as well as decent utility stuff.

 

I have nothing against Scutaro. I just think he's the safe option at a time when Theo needs to be taking a chance on a guy who could be better. Were trying to make up ground on some very good teams and we need all the help we can get.

He has a bulging disc in his neck that pushes on the nerves to his arm. It is excruciatingly painful. He had a pain shot in his vertebrae for relief, but the provide partial temporary relief at best. As Spud has described the condition, it is a ticking time--bomb. I have known people with the condition. It is really amazing that he has been able to go out and play every day with this condition, unlke wusses like Drew who sits out with minor muscle and menstrual cramps.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2010/08/12/in-game-notes-lowrie-providing-relief-for-scutaro/

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20100824marco_scutaro_thrives_while_playing_through_pain_not_short_on_toughness/srvc

[Dojji]

Yeah yeah, Drew is a woman, haven't heard that one before. Get some new material.

 

And if Scutaro's that hurt, sit him and call up Navarro. Nothing that jeapordizes his ability to play next year if allowed to aggrivate should be tolerated at this point. We failed to learn that lesson when it was Lowell and look what happened. Playing hurt is not smart. It is not gritty. It is just a future PITA waiting to happen if you manage to be so self-sacrificingly boneheaded you manage to get things aggrivated and not be able to perform anymore.

[a700hitter]

Yeah yeah, Drew is a woman, haven't heard that one before. Get some new material.

 

And if Scutaro's that hurt, sit him and call up Navarro. Nothing that jeapordizes his ability to play next year if allowed to aggrivate should be tolerated at this point. We failed to learn that lesson when it was Lowell and look what happened. Playing hurt is not smart. It is not gritty. It is just a future PITA waiting to happen if you manage to be so self-sacrificingly boneheaded you manage to get things aggrivated and not be able to perform anymore.

Talk to any one that ever played in the majors and they will tell you that after the first week of the season you usually have one ache or pain or another for the remainder of the season. They are never at 100%. They get paid a lot to play. They have a staff of trainers and doctors that get them ready to play every day. If players started sitting out with every cramp, well you would have a roster full of Drews. The fact is that because today's pitchers are huge wusses that can't throw more than 100 pitches and relievers can't throw more than 1 inning, you need to carry 12 pitchers leaving you with about 3 guys on the bench. With today's thin benches, teams can't afford too many Drew's. Although I must admit that he has been surprisingly durable this season.

 

Scutaro has had the disc problem since the beginning of the season. Are you suggesting that he should have been taking time off when the only alternative would have been Hall at SS? Taking time off will not correct his disc problem. It would be just as likely to recur next season if he takes the rest of this season off. He has been our best option at SS all season. I'm glad that he has sacked up and gone out and earned his money. Otherwise, we would have really been in a fix.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Beckett better not get lit up tonight against this piece of s*** offense

 

if beckett can't have a good outing against seattle, then he's cooked