The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[Yaz Sideburn]

He's the opening day starting LFer or CFer in 2011.

 

which is the way it should be. we have almost no speed in the the lineup without him, when he's playing our offense is much more dynamic

[a700hitter]

which is the way it should be. we have almost no speed in the the lineup without him' date=' when he's playing our offense is much more dynamic[/quote']...and Crawford is on the team, things could be very exciting.

[jacksonianmarch]

his poor defense was my largest criticism of him but it looked like his defense improved quite a bit this year. it's one of the things he worked on in the offseason

 

Wait, Ellsbury's defense has improved this season? How, and what part of the season? The guy has been out almost the entire yr

[example1]

Ellsbury's trade value took a major tumble. He needs to build it back up next season' date=' which is why I think he stays in Boston next yr[/quote']

 

major tumble = going from "not tradeable" to "maybe tradeable" on Sox message boards. Does anyone have any confirmation that the Sox would actually entertain ideas of moving him? I haven't seen anything from Theo and Co to that end.

[Will617]

Would having Doubront spend 2 years in AAA hurt him in the long-run? If it does, one of Doubront or Matsuzaka will either be gone or in the bullpen soon, and I'm not sure either would like pitching out of the bullpen (though, of course, neither can really do anything about it).

In 2 years, Kelly or another one of the Sox's arms would probably have panned out as well. It seems like if the Sox could get a good return on Doubront, it might be worth taking that deal (Doubront for Rasmus?)

[Spudboy]

major tumble = going from "not tradeable" to "maybe tradeable" on Sox message boards. Does anyone have any confirmation that the Sox would actually entertain ideas of moving him? I haven't seen anything from Theo and Co to that end.

 

No. Other than subjective speculation among some of the Boston media.

 

Trading Ellsbury would be a major mis-step.

[NativeBostonian]

Trading Ellsbury to make room for Crawford would make no sense. Your just swamping out guys that bring the same skills to the table. What you want is them both on the same team. Can you image not only have those two in the same outfield, but running the bases. That would be such a good defensive and base running team. If you are making room for him you need to can Cameron or J.D Drew, not Ellsbury.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Wait' date=' Ellsbury's defense has improved this season? How, and what part of the season? The guy has been out almost the entire yr[/quote']

 

he was getting much better jumps on the ball this year. even with his rib injury he was getting to balls that would have fallen in last year. it was quite a noticeable improvement to anyone who watched how bad he was last year, even if he didn't play much

[Yaz Sideburn]

...and Crawford is on the team' date=' things could be very exciting.[/quote']

 

i think having 2 guys who could steal a lot of bases would do wonders for this team. too much of our team this year is slow and we really have to string hits together or get an extra base hit to score runs. with the kind of rotation we'll have on paper next year, i think it will be important to be able to manufacture a run in low scoring games

[NativeBostonian]

I have always felt like you need guys with speed who can get on base leading off and guys with power in the middle to get them home. I think the sox would achieve that if they get Crawford without giving up Ellsbury.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I have always felt like you need guys with speed who can get on base leading off and guys with power in the middle to get them home. I think the sox would achieve that if they get Crawford without giving up Ellsbury.

 

it hurts that pedroia missed so much time as well. he's usually good for 20 bags. if we were to acquire crawford we'd likely go from dead last in the majors in stolen bases to first

[Spudboy]

Trading Ellsbury to make room for Crawford would make no sense. Your just swamping out guys that bring the same skills to the table. What you want is them both on the same team. Can you image not only have those two in the same outfield' date=' but running the bases. That would be such a good defensive and base running team. If you are making room for him you need to can Cameron or J.D Drew, not Ellsbury.[/quote']

 

You are a man of vision.

 

Drew is going nowhere.

 

Dump Cameron.

[BSN07]

Crawford and Ellsbury would drive opposing pitchers nuts on the base paths. Look forward to 2012 and add Kalish to that OF and they could turn games into track meets

[jacksonianmarch]

You are a man of vision.

 

Drew is going nowhere.

 

Dump Cameron.

 

I think the sox should look at Cameron as their 4th OFer. They overpaid for him and nobody will assume the contract. And with at least 2 starting OFers being lefty and one of them being DL Drew, Cameron would get his share of starts

[TheKilo]

Jacoby Ellsbury is the most overrated player the Ded Sox have and I think it would serve their best interests to trade him this offseason. Speed is overrated.

[example1]

Jacoby Ellsbury is the most overrated player the Ded Sox have and I think it would serve their best interests to trade him this offseason. Speed is overrated.

 

It might be overrated as a main tool, but I think there's a reason that Theo has put a lot of stock into drafting players for whom speed is a major tool. All things being equal, you want guys with speed. Being slow never benefits anyone.

 

Also, I assume your statment is premised on the idea of getting value back for Ellsbury, not trading him at any cost, right?

[a700hitter]

Jacoby Ellsbury is the most overrated player the Ded Sox have and I think it would serve their best interests to trade him this offseason. Speed is overrated.

The Sox played to much station to station this season. There were to many games where they had a bunch of hits and very few runs. Speed pressures a defense and causes mistakes. Ellsbury maybe over-rated, but his speed is a very useful weapon. The key is that his value is at rock bottom. Thatks not when you sell an asset. I think he will be a Red Sox in 2011.

[BSN07]

With power numbers dropping off, speed will be very important in this new era of baseball. So I wouldn't jsut toss it aside as an after thought.

 

I'd be fine with Cameron being the 4th OF. Kalish can polish up in AAA and be 1st in line if someone goes down.

[jacksonianmarch]

I doubt the power numbers stay suppressed for long.

[TheKilo]

It might be overrated as a main tool, but I think there's a reason that Theo has put a lot of stock into drafting players for whom speed is a major tool. All things being equal, you want guys with speed. Being slow never benefits anyone.

 

Also, I assume your statment is premised on the idea of getting value back for Ellsbury, not trading him at any cost, right?

 

 

 

Yes, obviously. I would dump him for pennies on the dollar but include him in a package with Kelly and I think you can get real value back.

 

And to those who think speed is going to be such a crucial part of the game, I couldn't disagree more. Power hitting and power pitching will always reign supreme.

[Will617]

http://soxblog.projo.com/2010/09/victor-martinez-12.html

 

V-Mart turns down 2 year extension offer, but I don't think that's the end of it - the Sox will likely give him another offer. According to the article, V-Mart wasn't insulted by the offer at all.

[BSN07]

http://soxblog.projo.com/2010/09/victor-martinez-12.html

 

V-Mart turns down 2 year extension offer, but I don't think that's the end of it - the Sox will likely give him another offer. According to the article, V-Mart wasn't insulted by the offer at all.

 

If they do come to terms it will probably be for 3 years with an option or maybe even 4 guaranteed. Which really will be a discount, because I am sure there are teams ut there that will offer him 5 years.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I doubt the power numbers stay suppressed for long.

 

why's that?

[Yaz Sideburn]

I think the sox should look at Cameron as their 4th OFer. They overpaid for him and nobody will assume the contract. And with at least 2 starting OFers being lefty and one of them being DL Drew' date=' Cameron would get his share of starts[/quote']

 

we've disagreed on this before, but i think teams will be willing to take on part of his contract. in a year where he isn't sidelined with injury for most of it, he's worth a lot more than the red sox are paying him

[jacksonianmarch]

Right, but the problem is, he's 38 yrs old, relies on speed and quickness and is coming off an injury that can recur and cause further trouble

[Yaz Sideburn]

Right' date=' but the problem is, he's 38 yrs old, relies on speed and quickness and is coming off an injury that can recur and cause further trouble[/quote']

 

he's been a productive player most of his late 30's, putting up seasons worth $15+ million a year more often than not. i'm sure there are teams that would be willing to buy low on him. worst case scenario, they blow a few million. most likely scenario, they get good value out of him for the price tag

[example1]

I'm growing skeptical about the Sox really picking up Ortiz's option. Not for that much.

 

For that much they should offer Ortiz a team-friendly, 2 year-$8m deal and if he turns them down, approach FA with the intent of, among other things, making a strong push for Adam Dunn--if he's willing to DH. He's been a very consistent producer at near .900 OPS every season, with a high OBP (.381 career). The last time he was available he didn't seem to get much interest. I'm not sure why that was; maybe it was because that was the same offseason as Teixeira's FA, who a lot of teams were disappointed by. By comparison Dunn felt like the knock-off. He probably is, overall.

 

The Sox need an offensive overhaul and have money to spend. Replacing Ortiz with Dunn would be an interesting place to start to shake things up. He wouldn't have to be the main offensive piece, just an offensive producer for the length of the contract. He's been one of the most consistent hitters in baseball since 2004 and is only going to be 31.

[BSN07]

I'm growing skeptical about the Sox really picking up Ortiz's option. Not for that much.

 

For that much they should offer Ortiz a team-friendly, 2 year-$8m deal and if he turns them down, approach FA with the intent of, among other things, making a strong push for Adam Dunn--if he's willing to DH. He's been a very consistent producer at near .900 OPS every season, with a high OBP (.381 career). The last time he was available he didn't seem to get much interest. I'm not sure why that was; maybe it was because that was the same offseason as Teixeira's FA, who a lot of teams were disappointed by. By comparison Dunn felt like the knock-off. He probably is, overall.

 

The Sox need an offensive overhaul and have money to spend. Replacing Ortiz with Dunn would be an interesting place to start to shake things up. He wouldn't have to be the main offensive piece, just an offensive producer for the length of the contract. He's been one of the most consistent hitters in baseball since 2004 and is only going to be 31.

 

I'm not against them bringing Ortiz back. But I am probably more for them getting Dunn. Nobody wanted Dunn a couple years ago because his defense was so bad. And he was marketing himself as a 1B. Now he's open to DHing. The Red Sox biggest competition will probably be the White Sox.

[Will617]

I'm not against them bringing Ortiz back. But I am probably more for them getting Dunn. Nobody wanted Dunn a couple years ago because his defense was so bad. And he was marketing himself as a 1B. Now he's open to DHing. The Red Sox biggest competition will probably be the White Sox.

 

Adam Dunn said that he would be open to DHing for the rest of the season if he got traded at the trade deadline, not that he was looking to DH for a year (although I don't know if he's said anything new about being a DH, but I don't think he has).

I wouldn't mind acquiring Dunn short-term to play 1B (seeing as his defense has been average this year, and this is the first season where he's had an entire offseason/year devoted to learning 1B ) but if he refuses to DH, acquiring him for 1B will block the acquisition of better 1B next year.

[Station 13]

We need a 3B more than a DH/1B. Youkilis is playing 1B for the next 3-4 years, then DH probably if Rizzo pans out.

 

I don't think we have any top 3B prospect. Signing Beltre is a priority, 3/40 if he accepts.